Are WOMEN Pastors Biblical??
- Thread starter Major
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Following the SINs of Eve and Adam, God declared certain punishments upon them.
The primary punishment was DEATH.
Additionally, God gave authority to Adam, a man, over the woman Eve. As such the man in authority is deemed to be the author of SIN.
Ultimately a MAN, the second Adam, would have authority to release sinners by way of forgiveness - the procedure for which was outlined in detail in the Torah and the book of Hebrews.
It's about authority, Biblical authority.
No amount of invective, false accusation, character assassination or falsely quoting scripture will change that fact.
Although misandric American women will certainly give it their best shot.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
The primary punishment was DEATH.
Additionally, God gave authority to Adam, a man, over the woman Eve. As such the man in authority is deemed to be the author of SIN.
Ultimately a MAN, the second Adam, would have authority to release sinners by way of forgiveness - the procedure for which was outlined in detail in the Torah and the book of Hebrews.
It's about authority, Biblical authority.
No amount of invective, false accusation, character assassination or falsely quoting scripture will change that fact.
Although misandric American women will certainly give it their best shot.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
-
1
- Show all
When human "reality" diverges from Holy Writ error and lies and innuendo are the result.
What is wrong with keeping the LAW?
What is wrong with the 10 Commandments? Quote chapter and verse, please.
One of the major signs of the End Times is LAWlessness (Matt 24:12).
Refusal to acknowledge God's LAW and His revealed WILL is at the heart of this argument. The spirit of anti-Christ is at work among us all today. We see it in our headlines. We see it in war and violence and hate. We see it in the avowed hatred of God's Law for the purpose of personal aggrandizement.
Who have I threatened? Who have I condemned? Who have I presented as a liar, yet all these things have been attributed to me simply because I point out God's plan of redemption by way of authority and law.
Satan despises God's LAW. Those who agree with it will use its weapons against those who follow God's LAW. These weapons are false quotes of the Bible, political interpretation of scripture rather than honest review of it, and character attacks upon those who state what is plainly written by God's men.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
What is wrong with keeping the LAW?
What is wrong with the 10 Commandments? Quote chapter and verse, please.
One of the major signs of the End Times is LAWlessness (Matt 24:12).
Refusal to acknowledge God's LAW and His revealed WILL is at the heart of this argument. The spirit of anti-Christ is at work among us all today. We see it in our headlines. We see it in war and violence and hate. We see it in the avowed hatred of God's Law for the purpose of personal aggrandizement.
Who have I threatened? Who have I condemned? Who have I presented as a liar, yet all these things have been attributed to me simply because I point out God's plan of redemption by way of authority and law.
Satan despises God's LAW. Those who agree with it will use its weapons against those who follow God's LAW. These weapons are false quotes of the Bible, political interpretation of scripture rather than honest review of it, and character attacks upon those who state what is plainly written by God's men.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
Jesus message isn’t appealing to the self righteous but it is to sinners who aren’t pretending anymore and are hungry for righteousness
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
always a complaint from self righteous and always an open ear from a self aware sinner looking to be saved
self righteous actually get upset by his teachings because it showed light and exposes their righteousness as filthy rags but sinners draw near to hear the savior and it offends the self righteous that Jesus would deal with those “terrible and dirty sinners “
The woman she believed in the messiah she has heard about in the prophets . She believed it was Jesus , so she came repenting of her sins it’s why she was weeping bitterly at his feet the messiah was to be the savior and he was going to forgive the sins of the people that had then separated from God
had she not acknowledged that she was just another sinner like everyone else Jesus would have pointed out her sins until she acknowledged them she didn’t need that she knew she needed what he gave her Love and hope and salvation
I believe that there was no need for Jesus to even mention her sins to her in that manner of pointing them out , the woman was fully aware of her sins living amongst the pious of Jerusalem’s law she was a cast aside the kind of woman the Pharisees would cross the street to avoid.
We are so misinformed sometimes but Jesus is able to correct our heart and mind , he came because we all are lost without his offer and it’s so
Much different than the law
“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.”
Luke 15:1-2 KJV
always a complaint from self righteous and always an open ear from a self aware sinner looking to be saved
self righteous actually get upset by his teachings because it showed light and exposes their righteousness as filthy rags but sinners draw near to hear the savior and it offends the self righteous that Jesus would deal with those “terrible and dirty sinners “
The woman she believed in the messiah she has heard about in the prophets . She believed it was Jesus , so she came repenting of her sins it’s why she was weeping bitterly at his feet the messiah was to be the savior and he was going to forgive the sins of the people that had then separated from God
had she not acknowledged that she was just another sinner like everyone else Jesus would have pointed out her sins until she acknowledged them she didn’t need that she knew she needed what he gave her Love and hope and salvation
I believe that there was no need for Jesus to even mention her sins to her in that manner of pointing them out , the woman was fully aware of her sins living amongst the pious of Jerusalem’s law she was a cast aside the kind of woman the Pharisees would cross the street to avoid.
We are so misinformed sometimes but Jesus is able to correct our heart and mind , he came because we all are lost without his offer and it’s so
Much different than the law
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Unfortunately there's a lot of money to be made in the god business and women, as well as opportunistic men, have been guilty of preaching false doctrine for profit, not prophet.
No one is forced to sit under a false teacher. Unfortunately the issue of "true or false" is an issue that may not be adequately addressed here since personal politics seems to be higher on the list of importance than the gospel.
A true preacher of the gospel will be true to God's Word. Since most denominational churches now deny the Bible IS God's Inspired Word, our population is now exposed to all manner of false doctrine; happy talk, situational ethics, personal improvement talks, etc. Not the gospel. Not the truth of God's Word.
Consequently our nation is following its own polluted nose into deep trouble - trouble among ourselves, trouble with our enemies and trouble with God.
Nobody wants to know the truth today. John 3:19
Everybody wants to believe their own lie.
America, as well as the church, is Ichabod. 1 Samual 4:21
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
No one is forced to sit under a false teacher. Unfortunately the issue of "true or false" is an issue that may not be adequately addressed here since personal politics seems to be higher on the list of importance than the gospel.
A true preacher of the gospel will be true to God's Word. Since most denominational churches now deny the Bible IS God's Inspired Word, our population is now exposed to all manner of false doctrine; happy talk, situational ethics, personal improvement talks, etc. Not the gospel. Not the truth of God's Word.
Consequently our nation is following its own polluted nose into deep trouble - trouble among ourselves, trouble with our enemies and trouble with God.
Nobody wants to know the truth today. John 3:19
Everybody wants to believe their own lie.
America, as well as the church, is Ichabod. 1 Samual 4:21
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
the ot law isn’t Christian doctrine
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:5-6, 24 KJV
it is not a word of faith and cannot justify anyone
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
It’s for sinners who won’t repent
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11
it’s purpose is to impute sin and make
Men guilty before God and has no power to justify anyone it is to make us aware of sin
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Because of sin in mankind our flaws , the enemy used the law against us to provoke our flaws and produce a sinful nature
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
Romans 7:7-11
that’s all the law can do put sinners to guilt and death it’s actually opposed to Gods true law the words of Christ
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”
Acts 15:5-6, 24 KJV
it is not a word of faith and cannot justify anyone
“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
Galatians 3:11-12 KJV
It’s for sinners who won’t repent
“Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
1 Timothy 1:9-11
it’s purpose is to impute sin and make
Men guilty before God and has no power to justify anyone it is to make us aware of sin
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
Romans 3:19-20 KJV
Because of sin in mankind our flaws , the enemy used the law against us to provoke our flaws and produce a sinful nature
“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence.
For without the law sin was dead.
For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
Romans 7:7-11
that’s all the law can do put sinners to guilt and death it’s actually opposed to Gods true law the words of Christ
-
1
- Show all
The purpose of the LAW, which the woman in question was fully aware of, btw, is to convince of SIN.
Jesus didn't need to repeat the LAW to her because as a Jewish woman she'd been exposed to the LAW since childbirth. She knew she was a SINNER and she knew how to be forgiven - humbly REPENTING.
Americans for the most part DON'T KNOW THE LAW and reject that little bit of it they might learn along the way.
The point of humble repentance is key to forgiveness, for without it nobody can be saved - nobody will be forgiven. In this God's LAW is foremost. Claiming it is of no effect in terms of authority results in condemnation.
Jesus didn't judge anyone. Believers don't have authority to judge anyone. Those that refuse to REPENT and humbly ask Jesus for forgiveness of their SIN are those who judge themselves unworthy of Grace to be saved - unworthy of truth.
Forgiveness isn't universal. It depends upon knowing one's SIN according to the authority of the LAW. It depends upon approaching God humbly in repentance. Then and only then may one be forgiven.
It's about authority and who has it. The Bible is very clear on this point.
Will we yield our personal authority to God and God's plan or will we not?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Jesus didn't need to repeat the LAW to her because as a Jewish woman she'd been exposed to the LAW since childbirth. She knew she was a SINNER and she knew how to be forgiven - humbly REPENTING.
Americans for the most part DON'T KNOW THE LAW and reject that little bit of it they might learn along the way.
The point of humble repentance is key to forgiveness, for without it nobody can be saved - nobody will be forgiven. In this God's LAW is foremost. Claiming it is of no effect in terms of authority results in condemnation.
Jesus didn't judge anyone. Believers don't have authority to judge anyone. Those that refuse to REPENT and humbly ask Jesus for forgiveness of their SIN are those who judge themselves unworthy of Grace to be saved - unworthy of truth.
Forgiveness isn't universal. It depends upon knowing one's SIN according to the authority of the LAW. It depends upon approaching God humbly in repentance. Then and only then may one be forgiven.
It's about authority and who has it. The Bible is very clear on this point.
Will we yield our personal authority to God and God's plan or will we not?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Jesus is quoted in Matthew 5:17 as saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW. I came to fulfill it."
The LAW most certainly is Christian doctrine, but it has been abrogated over the years first by the RCC and then by the post protestant church.
Such ideologically incorrect statements reveal anti-Semitic attitudes of modern christians as well as their ignorance of the LAW.
If you think the LAW doesn't apply to you......break it and see what happens.
I do not recommend such foolish action. Instead I do recommend REPENTANCE according to the LAW.
No one can be saved apart from the LAW.
If Jesus didn't come to abolish the LAW, which part of it did He fulfill?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
The LAW most certainly is Christian doctrine, but it has been abrogated over the years first by the RCC and then by the post protestant church.
Such ideologically incorrect statements reveal anti-Semitic attitudes of modern christians as well as their ignorance of the LAW.
If you think the LAW doesn't apply to you......break it and see what happens.
I do not recommend such foolish action. Instead I do recommend REPENTANCE according to the LAW.
No one can be saved apart from the LAW.
If Jesus didn't come to abolish the LAW, which part of it did He fulfill?
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
-
2
- Show all
Now factor in " through the law"
The law could not save.
Jesus is the law giver. Not law enforcer.
It is immediate conviction in ones heart should we sin.
We are not pointed to the law because the law giver is inside us.
If i need to invoke the law for myself or someone else in sin, then there is a huge red flag as to whether that person is truly born again with a new heart.
There should be massive sorrow, followed by repentance even if i can not quote 5 of the 10 commandments.
The law could not save.
Jesus is the law giver. Not law enforcer.
It is immediate conviction in ones heart should we sin.
We are not pointed to the law because the law giver is inside us.
If i need to invoke the law for myself or someone else in sin, then there is a huge red flag as to whether that person is truly born again with a new heart.
There should be massive sorrow, followed by repentance even if i can not quote 5 of the 10 commandments.
-
1
- Show all
now factor in the Holy Spirit.
H O L Y.
That word/name.
We are equipped through the Holy Ghost to walk with no bondage of sin.
The lust and addictions are broken. Not through law keeping discipline....but through the indwelling and CONTROL SUBMITTED by us.
" i have been crucified with Christ."
A dead man in a coffin can not be coerced into sin. " do it or i will blow your head off" ....of course there is not response because the corpse is dead to sin or temptation. No way to force him into anything.
So it is dead to sin but alive in christ at the same time.
The Holy Spirit adding power to walk Holy.
H O L Y.
That word/name.
We are equipped through the Holy Ghost to walk with no bondage of sin.
The lust and addictions are broken. Not through law keeping discipline....but through the indwelling and CONTROL SUBMITTED by us.
" i have been crucified with Christ."
A dead man in a coffin can not be coerced into sin. " do it or i will blow your head off" ....of course there is not response because the corpse is dead to sin or temptation. No way to force him into anything.
So it is dead to sin but alive in christ at the same time.
The Holy Spirit adding power to walk Holy.
-
1
- Show all
Yes and he explained what he meant when he said it so we don’t go off and create ideas from it that contradict the New Testament
Consider Jesus interpretation of his own words
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
Matthew 5:17-18
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
Luke 24:44 KJV
Then he opened up their understanding about the New Testament
“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them,
Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:45-47 KJV
you are missing the changing of the law from a shadow to the truth. When we get baptized it means we died to the law and now belong to Jesus who died for us our law is what he said not Moses we died to the old law otherwise it’s not fulfilled the fulfillment of the law is the death of the sinner under it
Know ye not, brethren, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, ( before baptism into christs death ) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6
to serve in the spirit and not the letter is to look to Jesus words and not the old stone covenant of death it’s why Jesus said things like this to turn us from a sinners hard hearted command that can’t save , the letter outside man to the commandment of the spirit and heart to believe and lead us into to roghteousness
a ten commandment is what Jesus corrects here
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
I’m not saying we don’t have Gods law , I’m saying Moses isn’t the one who spoke it , Jesus is the old was a pattern for sinners without the holy spirit , the gospel is for those who receive remission of sins through repentance and belief of the New Testament word
The covenant changed all together he made something new
Consider Jesus interpretation of his own words
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
Matthew 5:17-18
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
Luke 24:44 KJV
Then he opened up their understanding about the New Testament
“Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, And said unto them,
Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.”
Luke 24:45-47 KJV
you are missing the changing of the law from a shadow to the truth. When we get baptized it means we died to the law and now belong to Jesus who died for us our law is what he said not Moses we died to the old law otherwise it’s not fulfilled the fulfillment of the law is the death of the sinner under it
Know ye not, brethren, how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
For when we were in the flesh, ( before baptism into christs death ) the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;
that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
Romans 7:1, 4-6
to serve in the spirit and not the letter is to look to Jesus words and not the old stone covenant of death it’s why Jesus said things like this to turn us from a sinners hard hearted command that can’t save , the letter outside man to the commandment of the spirit and heart to believe and lead us into to roghteousness
a ten commandment is what Jesus corrects here
“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
Matthew 5:27-28 KJV
I’m not saying we don’t have Gods law , I’m saying Moses isn’t the one who spoke it , Jesus is the old was a pattern for sinners without the holy spirit , the gospel is for those who receive remission of sins through repentance and belief of the New Testament word
The covenant changed all together he made something new
-
1
- Show all
I hope so there’s a lot of glory in Isaacs covenant of the seed of promise , and not much promise in ishmaels from Sinai which breeds bondage and was always to be cast out of the inheritance of the sons of promise
“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
Galatians 4:21-26, 28-
terrible to be treated and act as a servant who’s bound to be cast out of Abraham’s house to forbid the inheritance , when there’s an open invite to attend a banquet in the kingdom
“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?
For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;
the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
Galatians 4:21-26, 28-
terrible to be treated and act as a servant who’s bound to be cast out of Abraham’s house to forbid the inheritance , when there’s an open invite to attend a banquet in the kingdom
-
1
- Show all
No one can be saved apart from the LAW.
By LAW, I'm referring to that which is also called The LAW of Grace or Mosaic LAW or Torah or Pentateuch or 1st 5 books of the Bible.
The LAW points the way to salvation, among other things by CONVICTING OF SIN. Without knowledge of SIN as God has defined it, there can be no starting point for personal redemption. If one doesn't know one is a sinner, then how can such a person be persuaded to seek divine justification?
Jesus is NOT the LAWgiver. Traditionally, that role has been assigned to Moses who passed the LAW God gave him to the Hebrew people and ultimately to the world (which to this day has rejected it - including Christians).
Jesus didn't judge anyone. Believers are not authorized to judge either. It is the sinner, the spiritually unregenerate who judges themselves unworthy of God's grace and forgiveness. This is an important point for readers here.
When the post protestant church rejects the LAW, it rejects the foundation of good doctrine. In doing so it substitutes its own dogma which is normally illogical, ultimately irreverent and totally erroneous.
The LAW points the way to salvation. While it is true the LAW cannot save of and by itself, it is also true CHRISTIAN TRADITION CANNOT SAVE either. Christians have wandered away, even rejected the template of religious instruction provided by the LAW and substituted their own godless form of heresy. Today we see this in religious slogans and buzz words shouted and reiterated as though they were some sort of truth, when in fact most people who regurgitate these words have no idea what they're saying.
There are two laws.
Most of the confusion Christians cling to is based upon the supposition there's one law. There isn't. There are two.
First is the LAW OF GRACE also called Mosaic Law or Torah. It was given by God to Moses and the Hebrew people and often quoted by and lived by Jesus.
Second is the Law of Works formulated by the Jewish rabbinate also called Talmud. It was created during the Jewish captivity in Babylon and has been passed down to us to this day. Jewish scholarship of today is primarily focused upon Talmud.
Jesus and the apostles lived by Torah. Everything they taught and wrote is based upon the Law & the Prophets as well as some of the writings (Proverbs, Psalms, etc.).
Matthew 5:17 quotes Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW, but to fulfill it." In another passage He also said not one jot or tittle would pass away from the LAW. Jots and tittles are very tiny punctuation marks associated with Hebrew writing. They serve to clarify and enhance the meaning of the letters and words they are attached to. If not a single tittle is to be lost, THEN THE LAW STILL STANDS. What then, did Jesus fulfill if he didn't destroy the LAW?
If post protestant Christians had been taught a modicum of the LAW, they'd be able to answer that question easily as well as the question as to why so much blood is required for forgiveness. Since they reject it, they can only come up with nonsensical opinions if they dare to imagine that much at all. Most just twitch their heads in church like dashboard bobbleheads and acknowledge or utter some scripture slogan or buzz word.
The world is dying in its SIN, but modern Christians are only concerned with spiritually dead politically correct issues. Some statistics suggest that if this aberration continues there will be no organized Christian church in less than a generation.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
By LAW, I'm referring to that which is also called The LAW of Grace or Mosaic LAW or Torah or Pentateuch or 1st 5 books of the Bible.
The LAW points the way to salvation, among other things by CONVICTING OF SIN. Without knowledge of SIN as God has defined it, there can be no starting point for personal redemption. If one doesn't know one is a sinner, then how can such a person be persuaded to seek divine justification?
Jesus is NOT the LAWgiver. Traditionally, that role has been assigned to Moses who passed the LAW God gave him to the Hebrew people and ultimately to the world (which to this day has rejected it - including Christians).
Jesus didn't judge anyone. Believers are not authorized to judge either. It is the sinner, the spiritually unregenerate who judges themselves unworthy of God's grace and forgiveness. This is an important point for readers here.
When the post protestant church rejects the LAW, it rejects the foundation of good doctrine. In doing so it substitutes its own dogma which is normally illogical, ultimately irreverent and totally erroneous.
The LAW points the way to salvation. While it is true the LAW cannot save of and by itself, it is also true CHRISTIAN TRADITION CANNOT SAVE either. Christians have wandered away, even rejected the template of religious instruction provided by the LAW and substituted their own godless form of heresy. Today we see this in religious slogans and buzz words shouted and reiterated as though they were some sort of truth, when in fact most people who regurgitate these words have no idea what they're saying.
There are two laws.
Most of the confusion Christians cling to is based upon the supposition there's one law. There isn't. There are two.
First is the LAW OF GRACE also called Mosaic Law or Torah. It was given by God to Moses and the Hebrew people and often quoted by and lived by Jesus.
Second is the Law of Works formulated by the Jewish rabbinate also called Talmud. It was created during the Jewish captivity in Babylon and has been passed down to us to this day. Jewish scholarship of today is primarily focused upon Talmud.
Jesus and the apostles lived by Torah. Everything they taught and wrote is based upon the Law & the Prophets as well as some of the writings (Proverbs, Psalms, etc.).
Matthew 5:17 quotes Jesus saying, "I did not come to abolish the LAW, but to fulfill it." In another passage He also said not one jot or tittle would pass away from the LAW. Jots and tittles are very tiny punctuation marks associated with Hebrew writing. They serve to clarify and enhance the meaning of the letters and words they are attached to. If not a single tittle is to be lost, THEN THE LAW STILL STANDS. What then, did Jesus fulfill if he didn't destroy the LAW?
If post protestant Christians had been taught a modicum of the LAW, they'd be able to answer that question easily as well as the question as to why so much blood is required for forgiveness. Since they reject it, they can only come up with nonsensical opinions if they dare to imagine that much at all. Most just twitch their heads in church like dashboard bobbleheads and acknowledge or utter some scripture slogan or buzz word.
The world is dying in its SIN, but modern Christians are only concerned with spiritually dead politically correct issues. Some statistics suggest that if this aberration continues there will be no organized Christian church in less than a generation.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
-
2
- Show all
Your 'factors' are true, but not completely accurate. The doctrine you're defending rejects the LAW and while you are making an honest effort to subtract the LAW while substituting Spirit, you've missed the mark. LAW and GRACE (spirit) work together unto redemption, not separately.
Factor this;
Jews celebrate the giving of the LAW by God to Moses during the feast of Shavout.
Gentiles celebrate the giving of the HOLY SPIRIT/Grace during Pentacost.
BOTH occur on the same calendar day.
This is no coincidence. God is saying something very specific about the interaction of LAW & GRACE.
While your posts on LAW and SPIRIT (Ruach HaKodesh) are true, they aren't exactly accurate either. The combination of the two, as documented in Holy Writ is the essence of God's plan of Redemption.
The LAW points us to a humble petition unto God for forgiveness and salvation.
The SPIRIT of Christ enters the petitioner to begin the work of sanctification.
so that....
The believer may please God by living according to the LAW.
I've been accused of being a Judaiser, but let me be perfectly clear on this. I'm not suggesting Jewish tradition can save. I am stating Christian tradition cannot save either.
Today the post protestant church, by way of rejecting God's LAW, has persuaded itself that its own traditions and rule are sufficient to save. They won't. Puffed up by their own religious hubris, Christians can only see their own false doctrine and even refuse in many cases to even read the Tanakh (Old Testament). Neither do they know or understand the difference between Old and New Testament.
Easter bunnies and Santa Clauses and Nativity sets do not serve to save anybody except perhaps the bank accounts of businesses that sell that rubbish to the public.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....
Factor this;
Jews celebrate the giving of the LAW by God to Moses during the feast of Shavout.
Gentiles celebrate the giving of the HOLY SPIRIT/Grace during Pentacost.
BOTH occur on the same calendar day.
This is no coincidence. God is saying something very specific about the interaction of LAW & GRACE.
While your posts on LAW and SPIRIT (Ruach HaKodesh) are true, they aren't exactly accurate either. The combination of the two, as documented in Holy Writ is the essence of God's plan of Redemption.
The LAW points us to a humble petition unto God for forgiveness and salvation.
The SPIRIT of Christ enters the petitioner to begin the work of sanctification.
so that....
The believer may please God by living according to the LAW.
I've been accused of being a Judaiser, but let me be perfectly clear on this. I'm not suggesting Jewish tradition can save. I am stating Christian tradition cannot save either.
Today the post protestant church, by way of rejecting God's LAW, has persuaded itself that its own traditions and rule are sufficient to save. They won't. Puffed up by their own religious hubris, Christians can only see their own false doctrine and even refuse in many cases to even read the Tanakh (Old Testament). Neither do they know or understand the difference between Old and New Testament.
Easter bunnies and Santa Clauses and Nativity sets do not serve to save anybody except perhaps the bank accounts of businesses that sell that rubbish to the public.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft....