50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord

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Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
I would suggest that this is the VERY REASON your posts are so hard to figure out. You aren't making yourself clear.

Why did you put quotes around the word 'I'? This is an example of unnecessary embellishments. You don't need any of them.
Unfortunately it appears that "hard to figure out" = "you don't get it".
Glad you caught on. Those who are able to wade through all his needless embellishments and can actually figure out what his point is, good on them.

In my opinion, TDWs Style of posting is sublime. Beautifully parsed and emphasized.
Everyone is free to have their own opinions. All the needless embellishments get in the way of proper and effective communication. And that's not my opinion. That's a fact.
 

Mem

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Sep 23, 2014
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Yes, recognition of the Antichrist is given to believers and to all who have a conscience and listen to believers. The rebellious world will not accept that Antichrist is "the Antichrist," any more than they might think Napoleon or Hitler or Stalin were "the Antichrist." They will simply dismiss the biblical narrative, thinking Christians are caught up in a superstitious fantasy, because they don't want to acknowledge what sin looks like. They want to be able to indulge in it, and compromise with it, in order to have their version of "peace" in the world.

But nowhere in the Bible does it say that Antichrist is disclosed by the brightness of Christ's coming. No, it says Antichrist is *destroyed* by the brightness of his Coming. Sorry you got that wrong, but you should know that the book of Revelation was written to Christians to enable them to expose and to endure wicked men like the Antichrist, as well as antiChristian-type governments. It is a call to faithfulness and to endurance. God bless!
God bless and keep you, just as well! :) Aree with just about every thought so far except that

I read 2Thes 2:8 as saying exactly that his destruction is concurrent with his disclosure, or his 'revealing,'

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
OK, then. So why would Paul even bring up the rapture in v.1 and then abandon that subject and move to something different in v.2? That doesn't make sense. And v.3 refers back to v.1 anyway.

Because the rapture will occur on a SPECIFIC DAY, to be sure. It won't be over a time period.

So you have a lot to figure out. v.1 is about the rapture, v.3 is about the timing of the rapture, but you think v.2 is about something totally different. That is confustion.

This is irrelevant. Paul used "gathering" in v.1, and you agreed that was the rapture.

So there would be NO reason to bring up any other subject in v.2. And Paul returns to the rapture's timing in v.3.
I think you're really making the issue quite clear.
Thanks.

DW starts by addressing, in vs. 1, the Day of the Rapture, and then switches to talking about a completely different "extended Day" in vs. 3, involving something else.
Exactly.

It is mass confusion with his effort to insert Pretrib Theology into a passage that doesn't warrant it. It's like taking a simple sentence and then arbitrarily switching various nouns to make it say something else.
I'm trying to force him to see the real issue here. Seems he doesn't want to.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Take it up with Jesus. Just tell him he made a mistake.
No, the pretribbers are the one who have made a terrible mistake. Having NO verses that teach that Jesus takes resurrected and raptured believers to heaven proves that your views are just unbiblical theories.

I will maintain my position of making men refute the bible.
Having been given 2 Thess 2:1-3 makes you trying to refute the truth.
 

GRACE_ambassador

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2 Timothy 4:18 doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.
So, I should "think it really means," that Paul, and one of his followers {me},
are "preserved unto His EARTHLY kingdom," Correct?

"And The LORD Shall Deliver me from every evil work, and Will Preserve
me unto HIS HEAVENLY Kingdom: to Whom Be GLORY For Ever And Ever.
Amen." (2_Timothy 4 : 18 KJB!)


Paul didn't mean they he would never face attacks, hardship, of tribulation. Obviously, Paul went through a lot of physical persecution and spiritual battles.
Yes, agreed, we have had 2000 years of that, Under God's Amazing GRACE!
GRACE Word for infirmities

But, neither do I Confuse {wrongly Combine} The Mystery/GRACE {Program}
tribulations for The Body Of Christ, In Romans Through Philemon,
with, but,

Rightly (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!) Divide them From “Things That DIFFER!:

God's Prophetic Program for The Nation of ISRAEL's Time Of Jacob's TROUBLE
{Great Tribulation},
as Prophesied In Daniel, Matthew, And Revelation!

Now, randyk was invited to our journey {you unwittingly embarked on?},
but he passed on it, because:

I would have to have the Gift of Interpreting Tongues to understand your point here!;)
About:

"In the beginning God Created The Heaven AND the earth!"
Is it not a Distinct Possibility "That God Has TWO Purposes"?
One "for the earth"?

Rightly (2 Timothy 2 : 15 KJB!) Divide them From “Things That DIFFER!:

The Other ONE "For Heaven"? "Preserved unto HIS Kingdom There"? No?

I am sure you, as a Runningman, can "Interpret Tongues,"? And, would
Never run away from this journey, Correct? :)

Be Blessed!
 
Oct 23, 2020
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This thread creates many more questions than answers:

Multiple raptures
A whole new world of syntax
Esoteric teachings

I feel like I've been drugged and abducted by a cult
 
Oct 23, 2020
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Surely teaching a secret rapture is so unscriptural that it borders on heresy?

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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This thread creates many more questions than answers:

Multiple raptures
A whole new world of syntax
Esoteric teachings

I feel like I've been drugged and abducted by a cult
Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels that way!
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Aug 3, 2018
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OK, then. So why would Paul even bring up the rapture in v.1 and then abandon that subject and move to something different in v.2? That doesn't make sense. And v.3 refers back to v.1 anyway.
He doesn't abandon that Subject after v.1.

PAUL is the one BRINGING that Subject to bear on the problem, or false claim, being disclosed in verse 2--which verse is basically saying, don't let anyone persuade you into believing "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"... not the claim "that the rapture has already taken place," and not the claim "that Jesus Himself has already come," and not the claim "that His Kingdom age has already started"--the false claim he's pointing out in verse 2 wasn't any of those ideas;

...the false claim he's actually pointing out and covering (v.2) is the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"

...which Subject we already know from his first epistle to them, that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that "the day of the Lord ARRIVES" LIKE the INITIAL "birth PANG" that COMES UPON a woman... but doesn't consist of merely one birth pang... that's just the START of it (i.e. its ARRIVAL)... just like Jesus had already talked covered in His Olivet Discourse, to refer to the START of something ("the BEGINNING of birth pangs" cover a lot of ground/time, and they are just the BEGINNING of them, not the totality of them, and certainly not the END of them, i.e. both Jesus and Paul refer to this as covering a duration of time... IOW, Paul in 1Th5:2-3, when referring to the term "the DOTL" and its ARRIVAL is not referring to Christ's return to the earth at Rev19, as many suppose, but rather a point well-prior to that.)

Because the rapture will occur on a SPECIFIC DAY, to be sure. It won't be over a time period.
So... the false claim, or false conveyors purporting a false claim in v.2, were not claiming "the rapture" already occurred. The text does not state that that is the Subject of the false claim... you are incorrectly supposing that to be what it entailed.

PAUL is the one bringing the Subject of our Rapture (v.1) to bear on the problem expressed in v.2, "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative--'ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."--note: Caps original in the quote I just copied & pasted directly from Grk grammar site). The "day of the Lord" kicks-off with the "JUDGMENTs" aspect, before summing up with the "BLESSINGs" aspect... both transpiring OVER TIME (first the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" aspect [aka what we call the "7-yr Trib" aka "70th Week"]; then the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" and "reign GLORIOUSLY" aspect [aka the "BLESSINGs" aspect we call the "MK age"--His 1000-yr reign]).

The false claim entails that this is what is already here, having already ARRIVED, and 1Th5:2-3 tells the MANNER of its ARRIVAL that the Thessalonians already "KNOW PERFECTLY," according to that context (1Th5:1-3). Note: I do not say that they "know perfectly" it HAS ARRIVED, in 1Th5:1-3, which @randyk mistakenly assumed was my point, in another post. That hadn't been the point I was making there.

The reason that Paul refers to the Subject of our rapture event in verse 1, and the Subject of the false claim in verse 2 (having to do with a distinct Subject--the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"--an earthly-located time-period) is because in v.3 he is then going to make the point regarding how the one fits in relation, time-wise/sequence-wise, to the other.

He is not at all abandoning the Subject of v.1 (Rapture), as you suggest would be the case according to my view; it only seems so to you because you are mis-defining the Subject of the false claim spoken of in v.2, and are therefore mislabeling what v.3a is starting off with. If we can separate v.3 into 3 parts, for the purpose of properly identifying each part (which you are not properly identifying or properly connecting), then this can be more easily seen... which I may make a post on again, later, for this post is already so long I'm pretty sure you won't even want to read what all I've put here already, let alone any more... lol

So you have a lot to figure out. v.1 is about the rapture, v.3 is about the timing of the rapture, but you think v.2 is about something totally different. That is confustion.
Paul, in these 3 verses, is telling how the one Subject (v.1's) fits in relation, time-/sequence-wise, to the other Subject (v.2's false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" i.e. the "JUDGMENTs" aspect [unfolding upon the earth over a duration of time] that "the DOTL's ARRIVAL" and "IN THE NIGHT" section consists of...).

Paul is not in any way abandoning the Subject of "rapture" after v.1... but showing why "the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" (v.2) cannot be true; he does so in v.3 where he refers to both of those Subjects and declaring the correct SEQUENCE of those two items.

The problem enters when people mis-label v.2's Subject and therefore mis-label v.3a's Subject (which is the same)... and the veering off the track of what Paul is actually conveying turns into a major misstep in interpreting this passage that is difficult to rectify in ppl's minds... so that they suggest things such as you have, that I'm saying something I'm NOT saying: that Paul abandons talking about "rapture" after v.1... but I've never made such a point. You only think I have because of your not grasping what v.2 (and therefore v.3a) are communicating, which is NOT as you suggest it is... (IOW, the false claim Paul brings up in v.2 is NOT that the rapture already occurred--the actual words in that verse do not convey such an idea... You are reading that idea INTO the text of verse 2, the Subject of the false claim... ) ;)
 

TheDivineWatermark

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Surely teaching a secret rapture is so unscriptural that it borders on heresy?

26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
That verse is in the CONTEXT of a chapter speaking entirely of what takes place FOLLOWING "our Rapture".

(His Olivet Discourse is not covering the Subject of "our Rapture" ANYWHERE in it; Rather, He is covering the Subject of the specific, future, LIMITED time-period [we commonly call the "7-yr Trib period"] leading UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, commencing upon His "RETURN" there--Thus, DURING that specific time-period being covered in His Olivet Discourse, here, if one should say "He is here, or there," NO ONE SHOULD BELIEVE THAT, coz it WON'T BE TRUE!)
 

cv5

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He doesn't abandon that Subject after v.1.

PAUL is the one BRINGING that Subject to bear on the problem, or false claim, being disclosed in verse 2--which verse is basically saying, don't let anyone persuade you into believing "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"... not the claim "that the rapture has already taken place," and not the claim "that Jesus Himself has already come," and not the claim "that His Kingdom age has already started"--the false claim he's pointing out in verse 2 wasn't any of those ideas;

...the false claim he's actually pointing out and covering (v.2) is the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"

...which Subject we already know from his first epistle to them, that the Thessalonians "KNOW PERFECTLY" that "the day of the Lord ARRIVES" LIKE the INITIAL "birth PANG" that COMES UPON a woman... but doesn't consist of merely one birth pang... that's just the START of it (i.e. its ARRIVAL)... just like Jesus had already talked covered in His Olivet Discourse, to refer to the START of something ("the BEGINNING of birth pangs" cover a lot of ground/time, and they are just the BEGINNING of them, not the totality of them, and certainly not the END of them, i.e. both Jesus and Paul refer to this as covering a duration of time... IOW, Paul in 1Th5:2-3, when referring to the term "the DOTL" and its ARRIVAL is not referring to Christ's return to the earth at Rev19, as many suppose, but rather a point well-prior to that.)



So... the false claim, or false conveyors purporting a false claim in v.2, were not claiming "the rapture" already occurred. The text does not state that that is the Subject of the false claim... you are incorrectly supposing that to be what it entailed.

PAUL is the one bringing the Subject of our Rapture (v.1) to bear on the problem expressed in v.2, "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative--'ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."--note: Caps original in the quote I just copied & pasted directly from Grk grammar site). The "day of the Lord" kicks-off with the "JUDGMENTs" aspect, before summing up with the "BLESSINGs" aspect... both transpiring OVER TIME (first the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" aspect [aka what we call the "7-yr Trib" aka "70th Week"]; then the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" and "reign GLORIOUSLY" aspect [aka the "BLESSINGs" aspect we call the "MK age"--His 1000-yr reign]).

The false claim entails that this is what is already here, having already ARRIVED, and 1Th5:2-3 tells the MANNER of its ARRIVAL that the Thessalonians already "KNOW PERFECTLY," according to that context (1Th5:1-3). Note: I do not say that they "know perfectly" it HAS ARRIVED, in 1Th5:1-3, which @randyk mistakenly assumed was my point, in another post. That hadn't been the point I was making there.

The reason that Paul refers to the Subject of our rapture event in verse 1, and the Subject of the false claim in verse 2 (having to do with a distinct Subject--the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"--an earthly-located time-period) is because in v.3 he is then going to make the point regarding how the one fits in relation, time-wise/sequence-wise, to the other.

He is not at all abandoning the Subject of v.1 (Rapture), as you suggest would be the case according to my view; it only seems so to you because you are mis-defining the Subject of the false claim spoken of in v.2, and are therefore mislabeling what v.3a is starting off with. If we can separate v.3 into 3 parts, for the purpose of properly identifying each part (which you are not properly identifying or properly connecting), then this can be more easily seen... which I may make a post on again, later, for this post is already so long I'm pretty sure you won't even want to read what all I've put here already, let alone any more... lol



Paul, in these 3 verses, is telling how the one Subject (v.1's) fits in relation, time-/sequence-wise, to the other Subject (v.2's false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" i.e. the "JUDGMENTs" aspect [unfolding upon the earth over a duration of time] that "the DOTL's ARRIVAL" and "IN THE NIGHT" section consists of...).

Paul is not in any way abandoning the Subject of "rapture" after v.1... but showing why "the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" (v.2) cannot be true; he does so in v.3 where he refers to both of those Subjects and declaring the correct SEQUENCE of those two items.

The problem enters when people mis-label v.2's Subject and therefore mis-label v.3a's Subject (which is the same)... and the veering off the track of what Paul is actually conveying turns into a major misstep in interpreting this passage that is difficult to rectify in ppl's minds... so that they suggest things such as you have, that I'm saying something I'm NOT saying: that Paul abandons talking about "rapture" after v.1... but I've never made such a point. You only think I have because of your not grasping what v.2 (and therefore v.3a) are communicating, which is NOT as you suggest it is... (IOW, the false claim Paul brings up in v.2 is NOT that the rapture already occurred--the actual words in that verse do not convey such an idea... You are reading that idea INTO the text of verse 2, the Subject of the false claim... ) ;)
Totally agree. "Missing the Rapture" MAY be logically implied....but it is NOT specifically claimed in the text.
 

cv5

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Nov 20, 2018
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if it were the logical assumption, then it would follow that Christ's coming would be pre-trib, since the unfaithful and therefore deceived are those marked and the faithful are those beheaded...but if Christ's coming destroys the antichrist...how can he, then, commence his campaign
You should also conduct a study on the "first resurrection". Its priority, phases, and components.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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You should also conduct a study on the "first resurrection". Its priority, phases, and components.
Why would you presume I haven't done any of that?
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
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Surely teaching a secret rapture is so unscriptural that it borders on heresy?
Precious friend, our Great GRACE Departure {aka "rapture"}, will
Certainly be NO secret. The UNbelieving world "left behind" Will
Certainly KNOW "something took place," and how MANY WILL REJOICE
when those aggravating Christians "preaching JESUS CHRIST," are
Finally Gone!?


Be Blessed!
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
OK, then. So why would Paul even bring up the rapture in v.1 and then abandon that subject and move to something different in v.2? That doesn't make sense. And v.3 refers back to v.1 anyway.
He doesn't abandon that Subject after v.1.
Well, good then. So now you will see WHEN the rapture occurs, from v.3.

PAUL is the one BRINGING that Subject to bear on the problem, or false claim, being disclosed in verse 2--which verse is basically saying, don't let anyone persuade you into believing "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"... not the claim "that the rapture has already taken place," and not the claim "that Jesus Himself has already come," and not the claim "that His Kingdom age has already started"--the false claim he's pointing out in verse 2 wasn't any of those ideas;
You're making no sense. Paul begins v.1 with "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"

Did you see it? Concerning is how he began the verse. So he was talking about the rapture, as you have agreed to. That is the sole subject of the verse. "concerning the rapture"

Yet, you then go into some ridiculous idea that Paul then changes the subject entirely and addresses something else, which cannot be the rapture. That makes no sense. Hopefully some day that will become clear to you.

Paul's concern was the rapture and the timing of it, all of which is clearly covered in v.1-3.

...the false claim he's actually pointing out and covering (v.2) is the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"
Why would Paul change the subject since he was concerned with the timing of the rapture?

So... the false claim, or false conveyors purporting a false claim in v.2, were not claiming "the rapture" already occurred. The text does not state that that is the Subject of the false claim... you are incorrectly supposing that to be what it entailed.
The false claim is that the rapture has already occurred. There is NO REASON Paul would change subjects between v.1 and v.2 since he was CONCERNED about teaching about the timing of the v.1 rapture.

PAUL is the one bringing the Subject of our Rapture (v.1) to bear on the problem expressed in v.2, "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative--'ACTION COMPLETED at a SPECIFIC POINT of TIME in PAST (●) with results CONTINUING into the PRESENT (▬►). In certain contexts the results are PERMANENT."--note: Caps original in the quote I just copied & pasted directly from Grk grammar site). The "day of the Lord" kicks-off with the "JUDGMENTs" aspect, before summing up with the "BLESSINGs" aspect... both transpiring OVER TIME (first the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" aspect [aka what we call the "7-yr Trib" aka "70th Week"]; then the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" and "reign GLORIOUSLY" aspect [aka the "BLESSINGs" aspect we call the "MK age"--His 1000-yr reign]).
This paragraph communicates nothing. Please proof read your posts before posting.

The false claim entails that this is what is already here, having already ARRIVED, and 1Th5:2-3 tells the MANNER of its ARRIVAL that the Thessalonians already "KNOW PERFECTLY," according to that context (1Th5:1-3). Note: I do not say that they "know perfectly" it HAS ARRIVED, in 1Th5:1-3, which @randyk mistakenly assumed was my point, in another post. That hadn't been the point I was making there.
Just more word salad.

The reason that Paul refers to the Subject of our rapture event in verse 1, and the Subject of the false claim in verse 2 (having to do with a distinct Subject--the false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]"--an earthly-located time-period) is because in v.3 he is then going to make the point regarding how the one fits in relation, time-wise/sequence-wise, to the other.
You've been deceived if you think that Paul's concern about the timing of the rapture would lead him to change subjects in v.2 to some irrelevant event.

He is not at all abandoning the Subject of v.1 (Rapture), as you suggest would be the case according to my view; it only seems so to you because you are mis-defining the Subject of the false claim spoken of in v.2
Then please in clear and plain words (without all that embellishments) explain what the DotL means to you.

and are therefore mislabeling what v.3a is starting off with. If we can separate v.3 into 3 parts, for the purpose of properly identifying each part (which you are not properly identifying or properly connecting), then this can be more easily seen... which I may make a post on again, later, for this post is already so long I'm pretty sure you won't even want to read what all I've put here already, let alone any more... lol
Until you very carefully and clearly explain what the v.2 DotL means, there's no use in more word salad from you.

Paul, in these 3 verses, is telling how the one Subject (v.1's) fits in relation, time-/sequence-wise, to the other Subject (v.2's false claim "that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" i.e. the "JUDGMENTs" aspect [unfolding upon the earth over a duration of time] that "the DOTL's ARRIVAL" and "IN THE NIGHT" section consists of...).
If the rapture doesn't occur when the DotL occurs, you ARE arguing that Paul was changing subjects from v.1 to v.2.

Paul is not in any way abandoning the Subject of "rapture" after v.1... but showing why "the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative]" (v.2) cannot be true; he does so in v.3 where he refers to both of those Subjects and declaring the correct SEQUENCE of those two items.
Since you admit that v.3 refers to the rapture, please tell me WHEN the rapture occurs, in v.3.

The problem enters when people mis-label v.2's Subject and therefore mis-label v.3a's Subject (which is the same)... and the veering off the track of what Paul is actually conveying turns into a major misstep in interpreting this passage that is difficult to rectify in ppl's minds... so that they suggest things such as you have, that I'm saying something I'm NOT saying: that Paul abandons talking about "rapture" after v.1... but I've never made such a point. You only think I have because of your not grasping what v.2 (and therefore v.3a) are communicating, which is NOT as you suggest it is... (IOW, the false claim Paul brings up in v.2 is NOT that the rapture already occurred--the actual words in that verse do not convey such an idea... You are reading that idea INTO the text of verse 2, the Subject of the false claim... ) ;)
Word salad.

I'm getting rather full. I'm leaving the table. I need some meat now.

I believe that I will never get a straight answer from you as to WHEN the rapture occurs per v.3.

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

OK, here is v.3. Now, please point out the reference to the rapture, which you just said was in v.3. And tell me from v.3 WHEN it will occur.

Without another serving of word salad. Please give me some meat.
 
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Precious friend, our Great GRACE Departure {aka "rapture"}, will
Certainly be NO secret. The UNbelieving world "left behind" Will
Certainly KNOW "something took place," and how MANY WILL REJOICE
when those aggravating Christians "preaching JESUS CHRIST," are
Finally Gone!?


Be Blessed!
I've been getting nowhere with another pretribber. Could you point me to any rapture verse that clearly explains or describes Jesus taking the resurrected and raptured believers to heaven? I would really appreciate that.

If you can't find one, why would anyone believe that Jesus will do that?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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You're making no sense. Paul begins v.1 with "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters,"
Did you see it? Concerning is how he began the verse. So he was talking about the rapture, as you have agreed to. That is the sole subject of the verse. "concerning the rapture"
Yet, you then go into some ridiculous idea that Paul then changes the subject entirely and addresses something else, which cannot be the rapture.
That makes no sense. Hopefully some day that will become clear to you.
Paul: Concerning the rapture [1], don't be persuaded by any false conveyors claiming 'that the day of the Lord is already here [perfect indicative][2], ... because it will NOT be [present][2], if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE/OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM/our Rapture IN THE AIR *FIRST* [1--the Subject Paul BROUGHT UP in v.1], and the man of sin be revealed...

Thus, two evidences must be in play for such a claim to be true (neither of them are--therefore is a "false claim"), but only ONE of them is said to be *FIRST* (not BOTH of them are *FIRST*, as some mistakenly read this text to be saying).


Subjects:

[1]--"OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" (our Rapture--where we go TO "the meeting of the Lord IN THE AIR]"

[2]--the false claim "that the day of the Lord" earthly-located time-period of "JUDGMENTs" unfolding upon the earth over SOME TIME (the "IN THE NIGHT"/"DARK"/"DARKNESS" time-period) is already here... and Paul's words instructing them not to believe that false claim that it IS ALREADY HERE

[3]--3a [the "WHY"] "because NOT"... "because it will NOT be present [Subject 2], if...
------3b "if not shall have come THE DEPARTURE *FIRST* [Subject 1]...
------3c "AND the man of sin be revealed..." [belonging to Subject 2--in "the day of the Lord" earthly time period of JUDGMENTS unfolding, when the "man of sin" will have "ARRIVED" on the scene per v.9a to DO ALL he is slated to DO over the course of those "7 years"--That is, when he is "revealed," that is when "the day of the Lord" time period WILL INDEED be present, and which time period's ARRIVAL is LIKE the INITIAL "birth PANG" that COMES UPON a woman... NOT when they've ENDED, see... (and which Jesus Himself had also spoken of in His Olivet Discourse and which are equivalent to the SEALS of Rev6 at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN] time period, aka 7-yrs, that Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 also covers the Subject of...) ]