Save us from sin v Save us from Hell ?

[throughfaith]

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , Lordship salvation, Conditional salvation and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . I used to listen to David Pawson in my early years as a Christian and this seemed to be his focus . " Jesus came to save us from sin ' . This sounds right and good on the surface. So is there an issue ? Well its interesting.
There definitely seems to be a difference with these two approaches . For me I've come to understand that the main focus is being saved from Judgement. So basically, saved from the wrath to come . I heard others respond to this somewhat disparagingly. Using such terms as ' fire insurance ' . They will focus more on being saved from sin. Of course it can be both . Saved from the consequences of sin which is hell ultimately. But this is not how its taught .
Thoughts ?

 

[Ogom]

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , Lordship salvation, Conditional salvation and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . I used to listen to David Pawson in my early years as a Christian and this seemed to be his focus . " Jesus came to save us from sin ' . This sounds right and good on the surface. So is there an issue ? Well its interesting.
There definitely seems to be a difference with these two approaches . For me I've come to understand that the main focus is being saved from Judgement. So basically, saved from the wrath to come . I heard others respond to this somewhat disparagingly. Using such terms as ' fire insurance ' . They will focus more on being saved from sin. Of course it can be both . Saved from the consequences of sin which is hell ultimately. But this is not how its taught .
Thoughts ?

…11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. 12 Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known

Hebrews 5:13, NIV: "Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness."


Hebrews 5:13, ESV: "for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child."


1 Corinthians 8:3
But the one who loves God is known by God.


John 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and r e v e a l M y s e l f t o h i m."


24He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. “By His stripes you are healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.…

 

[Hevosmies]

The bible says die to sin ^ as others quoted.

Thats about it. Saved from sin equals to eternal life. Sin equals eternal death.

 

[Ahwatukee]

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , Lordship salvation, Conditional salvation and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . I used to listen to David Pawson in my early years as a Christian and this seemed to be his focus . " Jesus came to save us from sin ' . This sounds right and good on the surface. So is there an issue ? Well its interesting.
There definitely seems to be a difference with these two approaches . For me I've come to understand that the main focus is being saved from Judgement. So basically, saved from the wrath to come . I heard others respond to this somewhat disparagingly. Using such terms as ' fire insurance ' . They will focus more on being saved from sin. Of course it can be both . Saved from the consequences of sin which is hell ultimately. But this is not how its taught .
Thoughts ?

Good day, Throughfaith,

Saving us from sin is kind of a play on words. As you pointed out, Jesus came to save us from the consequences of sin which is death i.e. eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

I always liked the example that the Lord used when He said,

"Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so also will the Son of Man be lifted up."

When God sent the plague of poisonous snakes into the camp of Israel, those who were bitten died. Then Moses interceded for the people and God said for Moses to make bronze serpent on the end of a pole and lift it up, saying that whoever is bitten and looks to the serpent will live. By that act of faith the poison was neutralized.

It is the same with believers. Before we came to Christ, the venom of sin is coursing through us and which would surely kill us. But just like the serpent, when we look to Christ, the results of sin which is death, will have no affect in the end.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It’s prety simple actually

the penalty of sin is death, the gift of God is eternal life

the curse of the law is death, the gift of life is Christ who because a curse for us

 

[Nehemiah6]

Of course it can be both .

And that's exactly what the Bible says. It is not one or the other.

 

[throughfaith]

…11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways. 12 Now we see but a dim reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known

Hebrews 5:13, NIV: "Anyone who lives on milk, being still an infant, is not acquainted with the teaching about righteousness."


Hebrews 5:13, ESV: "for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child."


1 Corinthians 8:3
But the one who loves God is known by God.


John 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.


John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and r e v e a l M y s e l f t o h i m."


24He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. “By His stripes you are healed.” 25For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.…

Not sure what your point is ?

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , Lordship salvation, Conditional salvation and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . I used to listen to David Pawson in my early years as a Christian and this seemed to be his focus . " Jesus came to save us from sin ' . This sounds right and good on the surface. So is there an issue ? Well its interesting.
There definitely seems to be a difference with these two approaches . For me I've come to understand that the main focus is being saved from Judgement. So basically, saved from the wrath to come . I heard others respond to this somewhat disparagingly. Using such terms as ' fire insurance ' . They will focus more on being saved from sin. Of course it can be both . Saved from the consequences of sin which is hell ultimately. But this is not how its taught .
Thoughts ?

Save from sin, or save from hell? Precious friend(s), further Clarification
from my "thoughts"?:

Save from the consequences of sin, which are physical death = no
{unless "living and raptured" = YES!}, and, spiritual Eternal Death = Yes!

Save from the PENALTY {eternal death} = YES! / PRESENCE of sin = YES!
...................... JUSTIFICATION! + + + + + + + + + GLORIFICATION! =
=====================God's OPERATIONS!

Save from the POWER of sin? Is this "work out OUR OWN salvation"
{deliverance}? Our fellowship of submitting, DYING {to sin} daily, And
"...presenting our bodies a living SACRIFICE..." (Romans 12:1-2 KJB!)? Yes!

When God "Justified us, He Also Sanctified {set apart} us." Do we also
have an obligation to "sanctify ourselves"? "set ourselves apart" to HIM?
Co-operating with HIM, accessing HIS Abundant GRACE For us, to:
OVERCOME "the POWER" of sin? Co-laboring With HIM for "rewards"
(1 Corinthians 3:7-15 KJB!)?

Yes, I believe so, though it will NOT ↓ "Justify" ↓ us
{as some propose, Ignoring HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD!...}

Be Blessed! Just my 2Ç

 

[Jackson123]

We are sinner, God is sinless
God save us by grace through faith
God love sinner but hate sin
God want us to repent and sin no more
But look impossible for man not sin
So in my opinion as long as we make effort to stop sin but always fail, God understand
The problem is when we proud of our sin, anyway save by grace forget through faith.
Through faith mean believe His teaching, love His teaching.
Love His teaching mean love God and love fellow man.
Back to love the law
Not love religious law but law of love

 

[Runningman]

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , Lordship salvation, Conditional salvation and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . I used to listen to David Pawson in my early years as a Christian and this seemed to be his focus . " Jesus came to save us from sin ' . This sounds right and good on the surface. So is there an issue ? Well its interesting.
There definitely seems to be a difference with these two approaches . For me I've come to understand that the main focus is being saved from Judgement. So basically, saved from the wrath to come . I heard others respond to this somewhat disparagingly. Using such terms as ' fire insurance ' . They will focus more on being saved from sin. Of course it can be both . Saved from the consequences of sin which is hell ultimately. But this is not how its taught .
Thoughts ?

You may recall from Romans 4 and 5 that where there is no law then no sin is charged. Prior to the existence of the handwritten ordinances against pepple, law and sin still existed despite there not being a codified law, evidenced by their being consequences for sin.

The law still exists and it brings people to the knowledge of their sin and need for forgiveness of their sins. In effect, Jesus Christ can save people from the eternal consequences of their sins by nailing the law to His cross. If that makes sense.

Since cause and effect are a real thing, I think there can still be real, tangible, temporal consequences for sin despite the sins being forgiven.

For example, you may notice that many of the 10 commandments are actually illegal in the secular world, too. If you lie, murder, steal, or sleep with someone else's wife there's a good chance someone will hold you responsible for those sins and punish you. Furthermore, God chastises those He loves.

 

[Ogom]

Not sure what your point is ?

In discussions about the law , grace , works, Faith , ... and such ,that there seems to be an interesting thing that comes to the surface . A focus on being saved from sin . ...

Thoughts ?

https://christianchat.com/media/20190727_094806-png.4907/



John 17:3
Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.


1 Corinthians 8:3
But the one who loves God is known by God.


12 ... then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known


Philippians 3:

10I want to know Christ and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to Him in His death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.

 

[Jocund]

A person that sins may still find salvation and avoid the Lake of Fire. This sinful part of them is burned away in purification. Wouldn't it be optimal to have as little sinfulness as possible so that we lose less of ourselves during the purification?

There is a subtle distinction between "deliver us from evil" and "deliver us from hellfire damnation".

 

[Ahwatukee]

A person that sins may still find salvation and avoid the Lake of Fire. This sinful part of them is burned away in purification. Wouldn't it be optimal to have as little sinfulness as possible so that we lose less of ourselves during the purification?

There is a subtle distinction between "deliver us from evil" and "deliver us from hellfire damnation".

Hello Jocund,

We were saved from the lake of fire when we received Christ and as we continue in faith. And as we continue going from faith to fait, we are being transformed into the image of the Lord, which is the on-going process of being made holy, also called sanctification. The new man in Christ is displacing the old sinful nature. When the Lord appears and we are transformed immortal and glorified, at that time the process will be completed.

 

[throughfaith]

A person that sins may still find salvation and avoid the Lake of Fire. This sinful part of them is burned away in purification. Wouldn't it be optimal to have as little sinfulness as possible so that we lose less of ourselves during the purification?

There is a subtle distinction between "deliver us from evil" and "deliver us from hellfire damnation".

Which verses are you thinking that say this ?

 

[Nehemiah6]

A person that sins may still find salvation and avoid the Lake of Fire. This sinful part of them is burned away in purification.

You won't find this in the Bible.

 

[JaumeJ]

All men have sinned and fall short of the grace of God. Is this in the Word of God? I believe it is.

 

[Jocund]

You won't find this in the Bible.

On the contrary. The concept is based in the refiner's fire. There are a number of passages that describe the unfruitful parts of us being cast away (e.g. John 15:1-27). Sometimes the imagery is pruning, winnowing, or removing dross, and fire is the consequence given to the removed part.

All have sinned and fall short of God's glory, but there is a reward for those that are tried by fire and their works remain standing.

"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." - 1 Corinthians 3:13-15 KJV

 

[p_rehbein]

Save us from sin
Save us from hell

6 of one, half a dozen of the other

"the wages of sin is death" pretty much justifies this thought

IMO of course

 

[Nehemiah6]

On the contrary. The concept is based in the refiner's fire.

What do you really know about the refiner's fire, which has nothing to do with the Lake of Fire?

 

[JaumeJ]

Our Father teaches us through Isaiah, "Beholdd I refine you but not as gold or silver. I refine you in the fire of affliction. For My Own sake I do this so you not be cut off."

Here I believe what is being refined is our faith for God does refer to our faith as gold, and the street of goldin heaven is paved with the faith of the saints.