Questions about reaching an agnostic

[Runningman]

I'm curious . . . what are you telling her is the Gospel of Christ? @Evmer above states that she may not want to submit to Christ because she doesn't want to give up sin. That said, most Christians do not believe that obedience is a reflection of True Salvation. So, you can see why I would ask you what she understands the Gospel to be. I also ask this, because . . . to date (and I"m about to turn 54), I've yet to EVER have one person tell me what the Gospel is, and I've been in the "church" all of my life.

That's impressive to have been in "church" all your life and to have never had one person tell you what the gospel of Christ is. Actually, that's scary. I take it that the majority of your "church" are mature Christians who don't need to be repeatedly told what the gospel is?

This might be useful for your congregation:

Hebrews 5:12
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

In a nutshell, what is the Gospel of Christ?

The Gospel of Christ is the remedy to the problem of man's sin. In order to understand the remedy, we must first understand what the problem is to understand why the Gospel of Christ is the solution.

The Gospel of Christ in a nutshell:

1. God loves us (John 3:16, Romans 5:8)
2. All are sinners (Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23)
3. God has a remedy for sin - the Gospel of Christ (John 1:12, Romans 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
4. Anyone can be saved from hell (Romans 10:13, Revelation 3:10)

I understand we have a lot of different schools of thought and denominations on this message board. If you seem to disagree with any of what I just showed you above then please feel free to demonstrate how it is wrong and/or how the message could be improved. Thank you.

 

[soberxp]

 

[Hungry]

Without order there is only chaos. The start of John “In the beginning was the Word…” The “Word” came from the Greek “Logos”. It refers to the order of things, where the word logic is derived. Even the Ancient Greek philosophers who spent a lifetime studying and theorizing concluded the existence of a force responsible, to which they called god. Post Messiah the name Yeshua, the Christ they gave credit.

 

[CS1]

So I know someone who is a professed agnostic who lets me share Bible verses, my testimonies and experiences with God, Christian music, etc. with her. I have been doing this for a while now. She knows all about the life of Jesus, what the gospel is, and some of what happened in Acts as the church began forming. Sometimes she even asks me questions about something in the Bible she is curious about.

She does not hold an anti-Christian bias, seems to support me in my efforts to grow stronger in my faith, and to preach the gospel. She sings Christian songs sometimes and even looks up Bible verses on her own sometimes. As far as I can tell she is actually pro-Christian.

All of that being said, she refuses to pray, won't even entertain it as a possibility. She says that all of the testimonies and experiences with God that I have shared are my experiences, not hers. She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming God is real."

So I feel like even though she is very receptive to the Word of God, seems to like Christian lifestyle and culture, there is a brick wall standing in the way. I am not sure if there is anything else I can say or do except pray and just be available if there are any questions.

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

Have you experienced anything like this in evangelism? Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share. Prayers appreciated.

Thank you.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

the bible calls this " a form of godliness". One who supports a person who is a Christian yet will at the same time deny God exists is not a Christian.

Those who come to God "must believe that HE is God" Heb 11:6. Keep praying and pray that She has an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. Formally introduce her to the Lord. As Her have you ever been introduced to the Lord Jesus?

Also, get out of the way. Many times we hinder what God is trying to do because we are trying to do everything and save them, you are not able to do that.

 

[CS1]

View attachment 228983

smh

 

[Runningman]

View attachment 228983

I read what you posted, but honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[Runningman]

the bible calls this " a form of godliness". One who supports a person who is a Christian yet will at the same time deny God exists is not a Christian.

Those who come to God "must believe that HE is God" Heb 11:6. Keep praying and pray that She has an encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ. Formally introduce her to the Lord. As Her have you ever been introduced to the Lord Jesus?

Also, get out of the way. Many times we hinder what God is trying to do because we are trying to do everything and save them, you are not able to do that.

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I need to just get our of the way and let everything I have shown her sink in.

It isn't always instant is it? I wasn't raised in church and it took a long time before I finally even wanted to pray to God.

 

[soberxp]

I read what you posted, but honestly have no idea what you're trying to say.

This is not for you ,but her.

 

[CS1]

Thanks for the advice. Maybe I need to just get our of the way and let everything I have shown her sink in.

It isn't always instant is it? I wasn't raised in the church and it took a long time before I finally even wanted to pray to God.

You know God knows you inside and out HE knew you while you were being formed in your mother womb.
(That would be the only thing I can try to gather on of the post of the sheep and uterus).

God knows her too the same way and HE fully knows how to reach her. Keep praying and ask God " Lor what do you want me to do concerning this person. HE will tell you what to do .

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

That's impressive to have been in "church" all your life and to have never had one person tell you what the gospel of Christ is. Actually, that's scary. I take it that the majority of your "church" are mature Christians who don't need to be repeatedly told what the gospel is?

This might be useful for your congregation:

Hebrews 5:12
12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.



The Gospel of Christ is the remedy to the problem of man's sin. In order to understand the remedy, we must first understand what the problem is to understand why the Gospel of Christ is the solution.

The Gospel of Christ in a nutshell:

1. God loves us (John 3:16, Romans 5:8)
2. All are sinners (Romans 3:10, Romans 3:23)
3. God has a remedy for sin - the Gospel of Christ (John 1:12, Romans 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4)
4. Anyone can be saved from hell (Romans 10:13, Revelation 3:10)

I understand we have a lot of different schools of thought and denominations on this message board. If you seem to disagree with any of what I just showed you above then please feel free to demonstrate how it is wrong and/or how the message could be improved. Thank you.

No one can know the full Gospel of Jesus Christ until they spend much time focusing on Colossians 2:9-15.

To date, no one has been able to clearly speak of what His Gospel is. Sorry, as I know you won't appreciate my response.

 

[Runningman]

No one can know the full Gospel of Jesus Christ until they spend much time focusing on Colossians 2:9-15.

To date, no one has been able to clearly speak of what His Gospel is. Sorry, as I know you won't appreciate my response.

I think Colossians 2:9-15 is extremely useful in preaching the gospel of Christ, but ok. Thanks anyway.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I think Colossians 2:9-15 is extremely useful in preaching the gospel of Christ, but ok. Thanks anyway.

Colossians 2:9-15 is the Core of the entire Bible. It should be given much, much, much more credit. But we're just not going to do that because it would mean that if we adhered to it, we'd actually be able to tell of a total Romans 12:2 Transformation, of which to date, no one has ever told me to my face about their Holy Transformation. Hence, we avoid Col 2:9-15 like the plague . . . especially "pastors."

 

[Runningman]

Colossians 2:9-15 is the Core of the entire Bible. It should be given much, much, much more credit. But we're just not going to do that because it would mean that if we adhered to it, we'd actually be able to tell of a total Romans 12:2 Transformation, of which to date, no one has ever told me to my face about their Holy Transformation. Hence, we avoid Col 2:9-15 like the plague . . . especially "pastors."

Christ's power is made perfect in weakness. The more of a mess someone is to start with the more apparent the transforming power of the Holy Spirit is. It's like night and day. I'm well into my adulthood and haven't always been a Christian, so I have some pretty interesting transformation stories that I sometimes do tell people to their face.

Important part is that God knows who is His.

2 Timothy 2:19
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Christ's power is made perfect in weakness. The more of a mess someone is to start with the more apparent the transforming power of the Holy Spirit is. It's like night and day. I'm well into my adulthood and haven't always been a Christian, so I have some pretty interesting transformation stories that I sometimes do tell people to their face.

Important part is that God knows who is His.

2 Timothy 2:19
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

With my having a remarkable Transformation story, the following verse has a very deep meaning and impact for me:

Romans 8:7 NLT - "For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will."

Never? If our Father is the Devil, and if the Sinful Nature we possess cannot obey God, how can we not experience a remarkable Transformation? How can this Transformation process slip past us? And what is more, how can I have been a member of many, many churches, but no one has ever been able to express anything like what happened to Saul, later to be named as Paul? Or, do we believe that Jesus does not act as He once did? Yes, the Indwelling Spirit still indwells with utter Power . . . but this only happens to those who belong to the Holy Remnant, meaning, very few will ever know this Transformation. And this is why it is easy to see that today's modern "Christian" is a past reflection of the Sadducees, Pharisees, and teachers of the Law. They THOUGHT they knew what they were talking about, but they Truly did not.

John 8:44 NLT - "For you are the children of your father the devil, and you love to do the evil things he does. He was a murderer from the beginning. He has always hated the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, it is consistent with his character; for he is a liar and the father of lies."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share.

I was waiting to see if anyone would post something along the lines of Lee Strobel's works ("The Case For..." books), and I see Pemican did so, in Post #5...

... because I was planning to post something similar... especially if the person is not particularly keen on reading, or maybe needs a bit of a "spurring on" jump-start to even be motivated to *want* to read (as some are just not big readers, especially on subjects they themselves claim to "not believe"--I have no idea whether or not this is the case with your friend)... so the following is what came to my mind when I read your OP, just as something to consider:

[short video] "Evidence" -

-

This ^ video (cartoon, made similar to "Schoolhouse Rock"... just over 4-mins in length) was made to accompany Josh McDowell's book... (and I think was made per his request)...


That particular set of information that was included in Josh McDowell's book called "Evidence That Demands a Verdict" had (I believe) been taken from a book called:

"Science Speaks" by Peter W Stoner... of which this YT vid site says this...

"This video investigates the statistical probabilities of just 8 prophecies of Jesus Christ coming true by accident. The research was done by Dr. Peter Stoner in his classic book "Science Speaks" and is available for free on the internet."

[underline mine]


And a quote from a site of Josh McDowell's (which point, the video references):

"Peter Stoner, in his classic book Science Speaks, calculated the chance of any man fulfilling these prophecies, even down to the present time, to be 1 in 100,000,000,000,000,000 (10 to the 17th power). How can anyone think that Jesus just “happened” to be in the right place at the right time? Clearly, we can’t consider coincidence."




I think that book by Stoner was perhaps written in the 50s (??)... and there was an earlier book (with similar information presented in it) called:

"Who Moved the Stone?" by Frank Morison -

"First published in 1930, WHO MOVED THE STONE? analyses texts about the events related to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Frank Morison was skeptical regarding the resurrection of Jesus, and set out to analyze the sources and to write a short paper entitled JESUS – THE LAST PHASE to demonstrate the apparent myth. In compiling his notes, he came to be convinced of the truth of the resurrection, and set out his reasoning in the book WHO MOVED THE STONE?"



Hope something of this helps. = )


[*praying*]

 

[Rosemaryx]

Also, get out of the way. Many times we hinder what God is trying to do because we are trying to do everything and save them, you are not able to do that.

This is very good advice , I love getting little gems like this unexpectedly from a mother who is always trying to save her unsaved children
...xox...

 

[Webers.Home]

.

She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming
God is real."

Well I say bravo for her! Why?

There is a significant difference between an atheist and an agnostic. The
former resolutely refuses to accept the existence of a supreme being,
whereas the agnostic at least agrees to the possibility of one out there.

I'm very tolerant of agnostics because those I've encountered are typically
critical thinkers, i.e. they're objective, viz: they neither deny nor affirm the
existence of a supreme being.

Their position is based upon the lack of sufficient empirical evidence to prove
one way or the other. In other words; they aren't unreasonable, they're
simply not convinced; and I have to respect that because the Christian faith
is not supposed to be where fools rush in; no, it's a conviction. i.e. full
confidence.
_

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So I know someone who is a professed agnostic who lets me share Bible verses, my testimonies and experiences with God, Christian music, etc. with her. I have been doing this for a while now. She knows all about the life of Jesus, what the gospel is, and some of what happened in Acts as the church began forming. Sometimes she even asks me questions about something in the Bible she is curious about.

She does not hold an anti-Christian bias, seems to support me in my efforts to grow stronger in my faith, and to preach the gospel. She sings Christian songs sometimes and even looks up Bible verses on her own sometimes. As far as I can tell she is actually pro-Christian.

All of that being said, she refuses to pray, won't even entertain it as a possibility. She says that all of the testimonies and experiences with God that I have shared are my experiences, not hers. She doesn't want to pray because, in her words, "that would be assuming God is real."

So I feel like even though she is very receptive to the Word of God, seems to like Christian lifestyle and culture, there is a brick wall standing in the way. I am not sure if there is anything else I can say or do except pray and just be available if there are any questions.

I feel like she just needs a little push, some sort of breakthrough, some experiences of her own to really jump this last hurdle.

Have you experienced anything like this in evangelism? Do you have any strategies or compelling talking points that you think would help? f you have any suggestions or guidance please feel free to share. Prayers appreciated.

Thank you.

At your service,
Brother Runningman

all I can think of is to consider this verse in prayer

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that when someone doesn’t believe that God exists there’s nothing else to ever make then turn to him because they don’t believe he is , this makes salvstion and responding to his word foolishness to them

I’ve found in my own experience that of the first hurdle is never overcome we spin our wheels on the rest . I suppose it’s a matter of if they are convinced in thoer position or if thy eh truly are agnostic and don’t have a decision either way I think that in itself has determined they don’t believe

I’ve not understood the middle of the fence position if we believe we believe and if we don’t believe we don’t I’m not sure there’s an in between position or neutral option

I think that when we claim
Agnosticism it’s just another spin on atheism e agnostics just don’t want to argue as vehemently as atheists more of a passive un belief where as atheists are more proactive in their disbelief

 

[Runningman]

.


Well I say bravo for her! Why?

There is a significant difference between an atheist and an agnostic. The
former resolutely refuses to accept the existence of a supreme being,
whereas the agnostic at least agrees to the possibility of one out there.

I'm very tolerant of agnostics because those I've encountered are typically
critical thinkers, i.e. they're objective, viz: they neither deny nor affirm the
existence of a supreme being.

Their position is based upon the lack of sufficient empirical evidence to prove
one way or the other. In other words; they aren't unreasonable, they're
simply not convinced; and I have to respect that because the Christian faith
is not supposed to be where fools rush in; no, it's a conviction. i.e. full
confidence.
_

I have to agree with you. I probably wouldn't be affordes as much tolerance from her if she was steadfastly resolute on rejecting God. I think if she is seeking God then God is pleased with that and would like for her to discover Him in no uncertain ways.

 

[Runningman]

all I can think of is to consider this verse in prayer

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is,

and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think that when someone doesn’t believe that God exists there’s nothing else to ever make then turn to him because they don’t believe he is , this makes salvstion and responding to his word foolishness to them

I’ve found in my own experience that of the first hurdle is never overcome we spin our wheels on the rest . I suppose it’s a matter of if they are convinced in thoer position or if thy eh truly are agnostic and don’t have a decision either way I think that in itself has determined they don’t believe

I’ve not understood the middle of the fence position if we believe we believe and if we don’t believe we don’t I’m not sure there’s an in between position or neutral option

I think that when we claim
Agnosticism it’s just another spin on atheism e agnostics just don’t want to argue as vehemently as atheists more of a passive un belief where as atheists are more proactive in their disbelief

I agree, I told her that verse before actually. God wants her to look for Him.

In my honest opinion, atheists don't really have any convincing arguments to satisfy the burden of proof for their claims. Atheist/theist arguments tend to quickly turn into a bunch of whataboutism in an effort to delegitimize the other.

It's just a difficult position to defend. I find that many people prefer a agnostic or theist position.