There was no sacrifice for murder, only death.

[Hungry]

A poster made a comment before that stayed heavy on my mind. She pointed out that the Hebrew sacrifice system for atoning sins didn’t apply to sins like murder and adultery. These are punishable by death. Many verses in the NT echo that there is no place in “heaven” or inheritance for murderers and sexually immoral individuals. Can we trust these verses at face value? Is someone who commits murder marked eternally? I get that we aren’t under the Law, as well I don’t want to limit the power of Christ’s blood. I’m just curious what verses are there that in fact support that even, let’s say, Nazi war criminals’ sins are washed with the blood of the Lamb. Will the Lord avenge the martyrs or forgive their murders under the New Covenant? Thoughts?

 

[JaumeJ]

Any law instructing capital punishment is not valid according to the teaching of our Savior Who says planly if mercy is not applied while executing the law, it is not correct. I believer mercy means clemency to some degree?

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello @Hungry, Moses, King David & the Apostle Paul were all murderers (and David was also an adulterer). Do you believe that they are lost forever because they were

The Lord made it clear to us that we can be forgiven of ALL of the sins and blasphemies that we commit .. except for one, and as bad as murder and adultery are, neither one of them is it (the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, which is a VERY specific sin).

Mark 3​

28 Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter;​

29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”—​

30 because they were saying, “He [Jesus] has an unclean spirit.​

God bless you

~Deut

1 Corinthians 6​

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,​

10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.​

11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.​

​

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A poster made a comment before that stayed heavy on my mind. She pointed out that the Hebrew sacrifice system for atoning sins didn’t apply to sins like murder and adultery. These are punishable by death. Many verses in the NT echo that there is no place in “heaven” or inheritance for murderers and sexually immoral individuals. Can we trust these verses at face value? Is someone who commits murder marked eternally? I get that we aren’t under the Law, as well I don’t want to limit the power of Christ’s blood. I’m just curious what verses are there that in fact support that even, let’s say, Nazi war criminals’ sins are washed with the blood of the Lamb. Will the Lord avenge the martyrs or forgive their murders under the New Covenant? Thoughts?

Because our law is spirit , even hate will now condemn us if we don’t repent we don’t have to kill or even harm someone hating us enough see the whole verse there

“Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John is talking about inner anger and hate towards others that we hold on to like Jesus had taught in the gospel

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment:..

‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we get a grasp on the flaws in our hearts like hate , greed , pride , lust , self righteousness by accepting Jesus commands that address those issues then we can find freedom and don’t need to worry about murder or adultery we are born in a better nature like Jesus knowing the truth and believing

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s why we need to believe the gospel it’s aimed at our hearts where the issues we face in life that lead us into sinful actions

before someone murdered another they have it in thier mind and heart to do so , or they have some other motivating factor like anger , lust , greed or so on that leads then into the situation and to make the decision.

what Jesus teaches is how we can avoid being led into sinful actions by repenting of the spiritual aspect in our hearts

do I have any grudges against anyone ? Any sworn enemies ? Am I envious of others ? Am I greedy or generous ? Do I serve the worldly things or Gods values thkngs ?

the gospel brings up all of these wuewtions to us when we hear it and this turned our eyes to the conflict where we can overcome

 

[Evmur]

All sin is worthy of the death penalty, Jesus paid the penalty, He died for us. For murderers, mass murderers, child murderers. There is no sin so black but it can be forgiven, there is a place at the cross for everyone.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All sin is worthy of the death penalty, Jesus paid the penalty, He died for us. For murderers, mass murderers, child murderers. There is no sin so black but it can be forgiven, there is a place at the cross for everyone.

Amen it’s now about sinners repenting as they hear the truth of the gospel repentance is our only obstacle in Christ but it is something we have to let in for salvation to run its course we need to acknowledge our own sins and embrace the need for repentance and then Gods mercy comes like a flood thebsire mercies of David

 

[p_rehbein]

A poster made a comment before that stayed heavy on my mind. She pointed out that the Hebrew sacrifice system for atoning sins didn’t apply to sins like murder and adultery. These are punishable by death. Many verses in the NT echo that there is no place in “heaven” or inheritance for murderers and sexually immoral individuals. Can we trust these verses at face value? Is someone who commits murder marked eternally? I get that we aren’t under the Law, as well I don’t want to limit the power of Christ’s blood. I’m just curious what verses are there that in fact support that even, let’s say, Nazi war criminals’ sins are washed with the blood of the Lamb. Will the Lord avenge the martyrs or forgive their murders under the New Covenant? Thoughts?

This may be true under the Law......however, under the New Covenant, Grace, the sacrifice for all sins (except the blaspheme of the Holy Ghost) is the precious blood of Jesus. This includes murder. Elsewise, where would the Apostle Paul be found if murder was not a pardonable sin?

 

[Hungry]

This may be true under the Law......however, under the New Covenant, Grace, the sacrifice for all sins (except the blaspheme of the Holy Ghost) is the precious blood of Jesus. This includes murder. Elsewise, where would the Apostle Paul be found if murder was not a pardonable sin?

I think he held the clothes of the killers and approved. I don’t think he took a life. Regardless, where does it state that murderers will be forgiven? Blaspheming the Spirit isn’t forgivable in this life or the next but where is it written that vengeance isn’t the Lord’s. He forgives the murderous child molester because the creep confesses and is sorry? I’m pretty certain there is more to salvation than can be conveyed in text. I see, and feel the supernatural transformation that I’m undergoing as I grow in Him and He in me. I fully accept that the old man is dead and all that I am is Him. Perhaps that’s the answer. It’s not a clean slate that we require for eternal life. It is a clean slate that is the rooting powder that initiates the grafting process. Then it is the oneness of branch and Vine that guarantees our resurrection.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I think he held the clothes of the killers and approved. I don’t think he took a life.

Hello again Hungry, when King Herod was informed of the Lord's birth, he ordered his soldiers take the life of every Jewish boy who was under the age of two at that time, but he did not put any of these babies to death ~personally~. Do you believe that fact absolves him of wrongdoing in this case, and that God considers him innocent of their deaths (if not, why not ).

...where does it state that murderers will be forgiven?

Here's one place (these are the words of the Lord Jesus Himself, BTW):

Mark 3​

28 Truly I say to you, ~ALL~ SINS shall be forgiven the sons of men, and ~WHATEVER~ BLASPHEMIES they utter.​

...............except for murder .. NO, except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .. e.g. Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-30.

Blaspheming the Spirit isn’t forgivable in this life or the next, but where is it written that vengeance isn’t the Lord’s.

Where is it written that God will take vengeance upon His own family/upon His adopted children, upon those of us who He chose to love from everlasting, those who He has already been reconciled with, those who Jesus died on the Cross to save, those whose sins have already been atoned for and forgiven (having been justified by His blood), those who have already been saved from His wrath in the age to come

He forgives the murderous child molester because the creep confesses and is sorry?

No, He forgives believers because our sins (~ALL~ of them, no matter how wicked) have already been paid for and forgiven by the only means possible, the Lord Jesus' shed blood/His death on the Cross in our stead.

I see, and feel the supernatural transformation that I’m undergoing as I grow in Him and He in me.

That's GREAT (that you are growing in Him and He in you).

Of course, that also begs the question, why don't you believe God/believe what He says to you IOW, why are you choosing to believe/trust what you "feel" is true, instead of choosing to believe/trust God by taking Him at His word instead (no matter what your "feelings", and/or the lies and deceptions of Satan, are telling you in the moment)

Thanks!

God bless you!!

~Deut

Romans 4​

5 To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.​

​

 

[Hungry]

Hello again Hungry, when King Herod was informed of the Lord's birth, he ordered his soldiers take the life of every Jewish boy who was under the age of two at that time, but he did not put any of these babies to death ~personally~. Do you believe that fact absolves him of wrongdoing in this case, and that God considers him innocent of their deaths (if not, why not ).


Here's one place (these are the words of the Lord Jesus Himself, BTW):

Mark 3​

28 Truly I say to you, ~ALL~ SINS shall be forgiven the sons of men, and ~WHATEVER~ BLASPHEMIES they utter.​

...............except for murder .. NO, except for the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit .. e.g. Matthew 12:31-32; Mark 3:28-30.


Where is it written that God will take vengeance upon His own family/upon His adopted children, upon those of us who He chose to love from everlasting, those who He has already been reconciled with, those who Jesus died on the Cross to save, those whose sins have already been atoned for and forgiven (having been justified by His blood), those who have already been saved from His wrath in the age to come


No, He forgives believers because our sins (~ALL~ of them, no matter how wicked) have already been paid for and forgiven by the only means possible, the Lord Jesus' shed blood/His death on the Cross in our stead.


That's GREAT (that you are growing in Him and He in you).

Of course, that also begs the question, why don't you believe God/believe what He says to you IOW, why are you choosing to believe/trust what you "feel" is true, instead of choosing to believe/trust God by taking Him at His word instead (no matter what your "feelings", and/or the lies and deceptions of Satan, are telling you in the moment)

Thanks!

God bless you!!

~Deut

Romans 4​

5 To the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.​

​

What do you make of this quote?

John 20:23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”