Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
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it is not false just because one says it is. In fact, There is more biblical proof of God doing this prior to Judging a nation.
- sent Prophets to warn of Coming Judgement Joah, Isiah, Jeremiah, John
- provided salvation from the Judgement
- Supernaturally provided protection from the judgment Noah, Moses,
- Enoch
- Elijah
Some biblical examples of God Plan and calling out prior to Judgment of great proportions:
- Noah's generation =the Ark
- Sodom & Gamorraia = Lott's family called before
- The angel of Death passing over the Elected by the blood Moses in Eygpt
- The walls of Jericho = only the home of Rahab left
With all that God can't do what is said in 1thessloians 4:13-18 or in 1corinthians 15and many other scriptures huh?
Are you like scripted trolls?..I see this alot on YouTube channels
You are a troll Arent ya? ...all of yall say the same thing..lol wow. All of your pretribbers friends, script it like you.. You can right a book and it wont make you right...I bet you could not wait to send out your scripted stuff. Wow
You are a troll Arent ya? ...all of yall say the same thing..lol wow. All of your pretribbers friends, script it like you.. You can right a book and it wont make you right...I bet you could not wait to send out your scripted stuff. Wow
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That's complete irrelevant. It's also perfectly fine in English grammar to say Christ is the firstfruit because he is.
Also there is this which shuts down this silly point altogether:
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits ; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
G536
ἀπαρχή
aparchē
ap-ar-khay'
From a compound of G575 and G756 ; a beginning of sacrifice, that is, the (Jewish) first fruit (figuratively): - first-fruits.
Total KJV occurrences: 8
You need to check these things out before you post "corrections".
Also there is this which shuts down this silly point altogether:
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
1Co_15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co_15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits ; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
G536
ἀπαρχή
aparchē
ap-ar-khay'
From a compound of G575 and G756 ; a beginning of sacrifice, that is, the (Jewish) first fruit (figuratively): - first-fruits.
Total KJV occurrences: 8
You need to check these things out before you post "corrections".
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- Show all
I wasn't speaking to that specifically, but to the phrase "shall God bring WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him"... but, you see, the MEANS by which this "G4862 UNIONed-with" Him occurs, is via "our Rapture" ("SO [/IN THIS WAY] shall..." 
; NOT PRIOR TO THAT POINT! [as in, while they're still in their "souls/spirits" presently, or even at the point when "He shall DESCEND," and they're yet in their "souls/spirits" till they "shall rise [be resurrected ('to stand again [on the earth]')] first" and then we're "caught up together / at the same time" in our glorified bodies.
The key words in that 1Th4:14 verse are: "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with]" (which happens BY MEANS of "our Rapture" event, NOT PRIOR TO it!)... and "ALSO" ("we-still-alive-ones" are NOT the ONLY ones "God will bring UNIONed-with Jesus" when Jesus "RETURNS" to the earth [at Rev19--not the RAPTURE], they ["who sleep through Jesus" / the DEAD IN Christ] will "*ALSO*" participate in that! (and this is "HOW," Paul explains); See the Grk wording of this 1Th4:14 verse.
Again, this verse is NOT speaking of the point in time when Christ brings their "souls/spirits" to reunite with their now-glorified bodies... this verse (with its wording) is not referencing that point in time; verses 15-17 DOES refer to "our Rapture" point in time (which precedes the other, and is the MEANS by which the OTHER can/does/will occur); "G4862 UNIONed-with" does not occur PRIOR TO the "caught up" moment<--This is KEY.
; NOT PRIOR TO THAT POINT! [as in, while they're still in their "souls/spirits" presently, or even at the point when "He shall DESCEND," and they're yet in their "souls/spirits" till they "shall rise [be resurrected ('to stand again [on the earth]')] first" and then we're "caught up together / at the same time" in our glorified bodies.The key words in that 1Th4:14 verse are: "WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with]" (which happens BY MEANS of "our Rapture" event, NOT PRIOR TO it!)... and "ALSO" ("we-still-alive-ones" are NOT the ONLY ones "God will bring UNIONed-with Jesus" when Jesus "RETURNS" to the earth [at Rev19--not the RAPTURE], they ["who sleep through Jesus" / the DEAD IN Christ] will "*ALSO*" participate in that! (and this is "HOW," Paul explains); See the Grk wording of this 1Th4:14 verse.
Again, this verse is NOT speaking of the point in time when Christ brings their "souls/spirits" to reunite with their now-glorified bodies... this verse (with its wording) is not referencing that point in time; verses 15-17 DOES refer to "our Rapture" point in time (which precedes the other, and is the MEANS by which the OTHER can/does/will occur); "G4862 UNIONed-with" does not occur PRIOR TO the "caught up" moment<--This is KEY.
What is the point of even discussing anything with these guys. It's constant disagreeing. They are not here to change their minds. They will continue to mock, act arrogant and use corrupted Greek concordance and lexicons. Why do you try so hard to change their mind? They are not going to. So is it fun or something? They have a one tract mind and there more than one of those guys on here. They are totally scripted. Like the news media and YouTube trolls
I never said the "definite article ['the']" is not used in any other mentions of/with the word "firstfruit". It is.
I simply said it is not used here in 1Cor15:23!"
Again, James 1:18 indicates there is MORE THAN ONE "firstfruit" (and Lev23 shows TWO mentions of "firstfruit"); and some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe should indeed read this way... "aparche" as opposed to "ap' arche")
I do not see how the verse you selected "shuts down" my point, at all.
[nor is there "punctuation" in either Greek or Hebrew, ftr]
I simply said it is not used here in 1Cor15:23!"
Again, James 1:18 indicates there is MORE THAN ONE "firstfruit" (and Lev23 shows TWO mentions of "firstfruit"); and some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe should indeed read this way... "aparche" as opposed to "ap' arche")
I do not see how the verse you selected "shuts down" my point, at all.
[nor is there "punctuation" in either Greek or Hebrew, ftr]
And you were wrong. I even showed it to you and you still didn't notice??
Again, James 1:18 indicates there is MORE THAN ONE "firstfruit" (and Lev23 shows TWO mentions of "firstfruit"); and some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe should indeed read this way... "aparche" as opposed to "ap' arche")
Awesome stuff but totally irrelevant, again. Christ is the firstfruits of the dead! That means he was the first to resurrect in an immortal body.
Nor is there small letters vs.capitals....it's all written in capitals but without the meaning of capitals in English but none of this is relevant to our discussion.
Again, James 1:18 indicates there is MORE THAN ONE "firstfruit" (and Lev23 shows TWO mentions of "firstfruit"); and some versions show the word "firstfruit" in 2Th2:13 (which I believe should indeed read this way... "aparche" as opposed to "ap' arche")
Awesome stuff but totally irrelevant, again. Christ is the firstfruits of the dead! That means he was the first to resurrect in an immortal body.
Nor is there small letters vs.capitals....it's all written in capitals but without the meaning of capitals in English but none of this is relevant to our discussion.
FreeGrace2 said:
The Bible says differently.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Well, picky picky. So what? How would it make a difference anyway?
The clear point that you just skipped over is that after Christ's resurrection, 'those who belong to Him' happens "when He comes".
And "those who belong to Him" are ALL resurrected WHEN He comes. The pretrib view cannot explain that. Pretribbers have to create and construct a number of separate raptures/resurrections to fit their theology.
Doesn't work.
Nice. That's it; pit Scripture against itself. Wow. Do you understand context? In 1 Cor 15:23, regarding resurrection, Christ's came first, followed by "those who belong to Him" WHEN HE COMES. Did you get that?
What is the context for James 1:18? It's sure not resurrection.
I have no idea why you even noted James 1:18. It's about the fact that the ONLY WAY to demonstrate their faith is by deeds. It has nothing to do with end times, the resurrection or the rapture.
So, if you think that verse links with 1 Cor 15:23, be my guest.
The Bible says differently.
1 Cor 15:23 - But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Well, picky picky. So what? How would it make a difference anyway?
The clear point that you just skipped over is that after Christ's resurrection, 'those who belong to Him' happens "when He comes".
And "those who belong to Him" are ALL resurrected WHEN He comes. The pretrib view cannot explain that. Pretribbers have to create and construct a number of separate raptures/resurrections to fit their theology.
Doesn't work.
Nice. That's it; pit Scripture against itself. Wow. Do you understand context? In 1 Cor 15:23, regarding resurrection, Christ's came first, followed by "those who belong to Him" WHEN HE COMES. Did you get that?
What is the context for James 1:18? It's sure not resurrection.
I have no idea why you even noted James 1:18. It's about the fact that the ONLY WAY to demonstrate their faith is by deeds. It has nothing to do with end times, the resurrection or the rapture.
So, if you think that verse links with 1 Cor 15:23, be my guest.
- OK, let's think about this, please. These 2 men qualify for being the 2 W since neither experienced death yet.
That's the ONLY WAY to explain how they will be able to be killed by the beast.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.
What in the world do you think "pretrib rapture" means then?
I didn't use those words when quoting 1 Cor 15:23.
And all your frilly "decorations" are really hard to wade through. If you want to communicate with me, please leave them alone.
I don't have a clue as to what you're talking about, but that's exactly what I'm talking about.
What in the world do you think "pretrib rapture" means then?
I wasn't speaking to that specifically, but to the phrase "shall God bring WITH [G4862 - UNIONed-with] Him"... but, you see, the MEANS by which this "G4862 UNIONed-with" Him occurs, is via "our Rapture" ("SO [/IN THIS WAY] shall..."
And all your frilly "decorations" are really hard to wade through. If you want to communicate with me, please leave them alone.
And in a pre-trib rapture scenario, the two witnesses miss the wedding feast of God.
Seems like these two heroes of the great tribulation deserve a comfortable seat at the table right? Pre-trib theology makes it impossible to let them into the wedding feast. They miss their promised feast with the King.
Fortunately, these two brave saints/witnesses will get their feast post-trib.
Seems like these two heroes of the great tribulation deserve a comfortable seat at the table right? Pre-trib theology makes it impossible to let them into the wedding feast. They miss their promised feast with the King.
Fortunately, these two brave saints/witnesses will get their feast post-trib.