Is Obedience Necessary for Salvation?
- Thread starter ChosenbyHim
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Right! Obedience is not "automatic"! Sadly, if it is taught that obedience come naturally and automatically, we usually find real deep discipleship and Christian living woefully absent!
We are saved by grace through faith, and not by works; but that does not mean works are merely optional or automatic.
We are saved by grace through faith, and not by works; but that does not mean works are merely optional or automatic.
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Believe is a verb, belief is noun
Seem to me we save by grace through faith
Not faith alone but grace + faith/believe
John 3:16
Whosoever believe save
But need grace if no grace,
Jesus die on the cross is a grace for all human, but Jesus set up the rule to receive that grace need believe or faith.
So above all, not believe alone must + grace
Seem to me we save by grace through faith
Not faith alone but grace + faith/believe
John 3:16
Whosoever believe save
But need grace if no grace,
Jesus die on the cross is a grace for all human, but Jesus set up the rule to receive that grace need believe or faith.
So above all, not believe alone must + grace
Work alone not save us, but grace through faith but most of the time faith create a lot of work
Example Noah, his faith create thousand hours of work to build an arch
Or he die under water
Believe or faith in Jesus mean believe His teaching.
His teaching is to love God and fellow men, it is not easy and to love fellow man may need a lot of work, for example cook food for the hungry, working on the McDonald's Donald for minimum wage and use some money to help the poor etc
If we believe/accept Jesus teaching and field in the next second, yes we go to heaven because we have grace and faith
But if we still life for another 10 years, the faith will bear fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
Example Noah, his faith create thousand hours of work to build an arch
Or he die under water
Believe or faith in Jesus mean believe His teaching.
His teaching is to love God and fellow men, it is not easy and to love fellow man may need a lot of work, for example cook food for the hungry, working on the McDonald's Donald for minimum wage and use some money to help the poor etc
If we believe/accept Jesus teaching and field in the next second, yes we go to heaven because we have grace and faith
But if we still life for another 10 years, the faith will bear fruit and the fruit of the Holy Spirit is love
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Probably not even Christian, faith without work is dead
Imagine if Noah faith without work/build an arch, he will die drown under water because his faith is fake.
Noah real faith seen in his thousand hours of hard work.
For normal man faith must translate into good work not an option or his faith is fake
Imagine if Noah faith without work/build an arch, he will die drown under water because his faith is fake.
Noah real faith seen in his thousand hours of hard work.
For normal man faith must translate into good work not an option or his faith is fake
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Any new Christian is going to try to keep Jesus's commandments.
The only issue with this, is if you believe you will lose your salvation, if you dont keep them.
As when that becomes your faith, then commandments have become your savior.
If a person believes...>>"As long as i keep Jesus commandments i wont lose my salvation"...then this person has no faith in Christ.
The only issue with this, is if you believe you will lose your salvation, if you dont keep them.
As when that becomes your faith, then commandments have become your savior.
If a person believes...>>"As long as i keep Jesus commandments i wont lose my salvation"...then this person has no faith in Christ.
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Keep His command is Jesus will
John14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
And Jesus not say only for new Christian. For those who love Him
He command all Christian to keep His command till those that not love Him/hate Him don't need keep His command.
So you are unaware hate Him by not keep His command
John14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
And Jesus not say only for new Christian. For those who love Him
He command all Christian to keep His command till those that not love Him/hate Him don't need keep His command.
So you are unaware hate Him by not keep His command
God does not accept your lifestyle to save you......and He does not accept your lifestyle to keep you saved.
Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
Im curious, as people who obsess on commandments, as you are doing, and few other here, never say specifically if you are talking about the 10 commandments, given by MOSES< or are you talking about Jesus's commandments only?
