Do you believe in Spiritual gifts?

[AnandaHya]

a test then? truly I post concerning spiritual gifts because many have told me that Apostles and prophets and speaking in Tongues have ceased upon the completion of the cannon and I would like to test that against God's truth. We are to test the spirits and I have two before me that debate both sides of the issue. I suspect they are like that doormen riddle that have them both liars, but all good lies mix in a kernel of truth to make it more easily swallow.

what is a Word Guardian? Do you know of someone you believe to be an apostle? you may pm me if you like.

Psalm 19:13-14
Amplified Bible (AMP)
13Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then shall I be blameless, and I shall be innocent and clear of great transgression.
14Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my [firm, impenetrable] Rock and my Redeemer.

 

[perplexus]

how would you intend to test that against God's truth?

 

[AnandaHya]

that as referring to?

If you mean the spirits arguments, you can normally tell by the fruits the words and thoughts cause in people's lives. people speak them out loud and I watch how it effects their lives. 10 years ago there was a debate about whether a person could be a christian witch or not (my first college roommate claimed to be one). the "or not" spirit won. the witch is having seizures and other problems associated with her dealings with the occult. still praying she will be lead back to Christ.

 

[perplexus]

Word Gordian? do you mean this? > Our lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, came in flesh and body, born from Virgin Mary, teach us about eternal life, made miracles, get crucified for us, resurrected from death, raised to the Father

 

[AnandaHya]

Word Guardian you posted this on another thread, could you expand upon it?


"How you Identify each and every gift without someone stating the gift that he/she has, but by merely observing him/her as a person. "

 

[zone]

Hi there AnandaHya

It seems you are searching. Knocking. And yes asking. But God has granted you wisdom not to speak to suddenly out of term so that you may receive the joy of having the answers to your questions. Being called by God as an apostle is an awesome responsibility. A very difficult one too. If you are serious for knowledge, I will share my bread with you. If you wish to brag about what you know, my pearls will remain with me. I am a Word Guardian. One to whom is entrusted a word. Which word. Well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. First I would like to know, what do you wish to know about the gifts. And to what end do you want to know. Is it for glamour? Or grace? As you reply your spirit will mingle into your words automatically and I will feel if you are sincere. Do you wish to know about the gifts in 1Cor12. The 9 gifts presented. Or would you like to understand the gifts in Ephesians about Apostles, Prophets, etc. Or perhaps Both. If you ask. I shall answer what I know. That is of coarse if you are a fellow bread-taker. Or simpy put, child of God.

Peace be with you.

HUH?
wow.

umm.....WordGuardian.

could you explain how you came to know you are an Apostle? (which you are NOT), but i'll play.

zone.

 

[WordGaurdian]

Hi there. I apologise for taking so long, but I like to be thorough and I had to explain the baptism of the Holy Spirit to someone...
Ok, all yours. Don't worry. I don't test people. The Holy Spirit does. I just read, and the spirit reveals. So no tests. You are sincere. So I will do my best to ellaborate. Unfortunate that we cannot actually meet in person. It would have been fun. Any case let's get started.

Your question what is a Word Guardian. Well it is a little nickname, I made for myself. For those that have insight might find me, but those that do not, will just see another name. You wish to know if I know an apostle. Yes. But I have also been given the grace to be an apostle myself. I knew a few apostles. And still know a few. And no, we are not like some people think totally without sin and God-like, etc. Being an apostle is not something you can achieve or choose. You cannot say...Hey I no longer wish to be an apostle. It's almost to say you try to say, you are from no on no longer going to be a male or female. Even if you were to go and physically change your form, you still have not changed your soul and spirit.

Now the (more commonly called office gifts Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher) is given to you at birth, or even before. When you are formed by God. Your entire personality encircles this gifts. You are made with this gift. This gift gives you certain abilities. It also makes that you can easily identify the different gifts if you know what to look or listen for. A lot of people claim to be apostles. If I were them I would be more careful. You see spiritually the spirits attack apostles different than prophets and so forth. However if you claim to be something they have leave to attack you in like manner. So better be sure, than sorry. Some will unfortunately find out the hard way. So each gift, whether it be a prophet or apostle can be uniquely identified. Kind of logic, otherwise how would the disciples of Christ know about who was who. I mean, it clearly states that a prophet came to Paul and said he was going to be bound. It did not say another apostle came to him or fellow believer. It said prophet. Who functioned as a prophet. And the prophet did his job correctly. Since he gave warning to Paul and affirmation. What he said was not a lie. But the point being, every one could identify him, the prophet as a prophet. And Paul became an apostle not because he was previously a pharisee. He became one, because he was one. Simple and clear.

 

[WordGaurdian]

HUH?
wow.

umm.....WordGuardian.

could you explain how you came to know you are an Apostle? (which you are NOT), but i'll play.

zone.

To answer your question: God called me and told me I am one at the age of 15. Of course at that age I had not the faintest idea what that even was. Of course I knew it was in the Bible, but that is as far as I knew. And to be honest it took me a couple of years to understand my gift better.

I understand that you or any other person would be hesitant to say that someone is an apostle. That is what I am however. But if you wish to ignore the entire idea and just call me WordGaurdian as my nick, it is still fine with me. God made me what I am. I did not. So if you wish to argue about it. Take it up with Him. If you think I'm not the best choice, I might even agree with you, but I believe God has a bigger plan for us all.

So yeah, there you go.

 

[zone]

Hi there. I apologise for taking so long, but I like to be thorough and I had to explain the baptism of the Holy Spirit to someone...
Ok, all yours. Don't worry. I don't test people. The Holy Spirit does. I just read, and the spirit reveals. So no tests. You are sincere. So I will do my best to ellaborate. Unfortunate that we cannot actually meet in person. It would have been fun. Any case let's get started..

yes. let's get started.

Your question what is a Word Guardian. Well it is a little nickname, I made for myself. For those that have insight might find me, but those that do not, will just see another name. .

i know the name. i found you.

WHAT TIME IS IT "BROTHER"?

Reason Number Nine: Freemasonry believes it alone is the guardian of spiritual truths given at the dawn of humanity

http://www.ovrlnd.com/Masonry/freemasonry.html

You wish to know if I know an apostle. Yes. .

no you're not.

But I have also been given the grace to be an apostle myself. I knew a few apostles. And still know a few. .

i know one too: he already taught that office has CEASED. his name is Paul.

he also taught repentence and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ I AM. (consider it).

And no, we are not like some people think totally without sin and God-like, etc. Being an apostle is not something you can achieve or choose..

that's right.
too bad you don't really believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible: if you did you wouldn't be doing what you are doing.

G.A.O.T.U. is a loser. game's over bud.

You cannot say...Hey I no longer wish to be an apostle. It's almost to say you try to say, you are from no on no longer going to be a male or female. Even if you were to go and physically change your form, you still have not changed your soul and spirit. .

wow....interesting doctrine.
i wonder why Paul never discussed it.

hey! do you know Rick Joyner? you know....Malta?

Now the (more commonly called office gifts Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher) is given to you at birth, or even before. .

really.
fascinating. where do i find out for sure. got an apostle hotline?

what's my job in THE NEW WORLD ORDER? guardian? Noahide council member?

When you are formed by God. Your entire personality encircles this gifts. You are made with this gift. This gift gives you certain abilities. It also makes that you can easily identify the different gifts if you know what to look or listen for..

doesn't that just sound so tempting?
ye shall not surely die.

A lot of people claim to be apostles..

yes, they do.
and every one of them is a liar.

If I were them I would be more careful. You see spiritually the spirits attack apostles different than prophets and so forth..

how so?

However if you claim to be something they have leave to attack you in like manner.

of course.
so i should expect the, now that i am an apostle, to be persecuted and shouted down, right?
because i am special and the foundation is being overthrown and relaid.

roger that guardian.

what's the hand sign for that again?

So better be sure, than sorry. Some will unfortunately find out the hard way..

that's right.
its called the White Throne Judgment

So each gift, whether it be a prophet or apostle can be uniquely identified. Kind of logic, otherwise how would the disciples of Christ know about who was who..

yes.....we've heard this before: the stupid worker christians have to be led by the upper class NEW APOSTOLIC RESTORATION CREW. because we are going into a communiatrian society and the NEW KIDS are running the church, right?

no thanks. i got all the prophets and apostles i need between the covers of my Bible.

I mean, it clearly states that a prophet came to Paul and said he was going to be bound. It did not say another apostle came to him or fellow believer. It said prophet. Who functioned as a prophet. And the prophet did his job correctly. Since he gave warning to Paul and affirmation. What he said was not a lie. But the point being, every one could identify him, the prophet as a prophet. And Paul became an apostle not because he was previously a pharisee. He became one, because he was one. Simple and clear.

you're not an apostle.
you are a freemason.

talk to you soon. i'll be seeing you. everywhere you go.

 

[zone]

To answer your question: God called me and told me I am one at the age of 15. .

no He didn't.

Of course at that age I had not the faintest idea what that even was. Of course I knew it was in the Bible, but that is as far as I knew. And to be honest it took me a couple of years to understand my gift better. .

really?
that's not how it went for the real ones.

had a little help did you?

I understand that you or any other person would be hesitant to say that someone is an apostle. That is what I am however..

no it isn't.
i know who you are.

But if you wish to ignore the entire idea and just call me WordGaurdian as my nick, it is still fine with me. God made me what I am. I did not. So if you wish to argue about it. Take it up with Him..

no, i'll be taking it up with YOU.

If you think I'm not the best choice, I might even agree with you, but I believe God has a bigger plan for us all.

So yeah, there you go.

i think you're a liar.

so there ya go.

let's see who is RIGHT.

 

[jamest48]

I believe in spiritual gifts and yes,they do still exist today because of what Jesus told His desiples,He told them that the miracles that He did we would do.He also told them that if they had the faith as a grain of mustard seed that we could say unto a mountain to be removed,believing,it shall be done but we must do it in His name,no other name would do.I can tell you of countless miracles that have been done in my life but we must also look at the miracles that occur every day all around us.The sun coming up in the morning,the moon and the stars,the birth of a child,the trees that give us the air we breath,the smile of a new born child.God is good all the time but most people take things for granted so much.I will share this with you,my younger brother was in an accident and his truck crushed his chest,ribs and punctured his lung,he was in critical condition but when we found out we asked our friends to start praying.In three weeks that boy walked out of the hospital,God answers prayers,believe and you shall recieve.Remember what Jesus told the woman with the issue of blood?,"thy faith hath made thee whole".You just keep believe and hold on the the altar of God,put your faith in Jesus all the time.God bless and keep you,hope this has been of help to you is my prayer

 

[WordGaurdian]

A rock will not produce more than that which God gives it grace to do. A pearl can be given only to those that seek. Those that understand parables cannot proclaim more than the grace they have been given. Those that proclaim cannot give the secrets to all. For secrets are for those that listen, not to man, but to God. I cannot and will not argue with you. You have a high intellect and think your way through the things you read, but your spirit does not read. I am glad for one thing. And I pray this does not change. That you abide your ways in the service of Christ Jesus. May you carry the fruit of His Spirit in your words and deeds and thoughts. Those who God wish to hear will hear. I don't proclaim to be more or less than you. No one knows their position in Christ. Only God does. I am not part of free masonry. I will not tell you what to believe. For if you believe that apostles are here today walking amongst you or you believe that there was only the apostles in the Bible. That will not change your salvation. It might help you to understand things, maybe, but it will definately not make you more or less of a child of God. We all know how to that and that is to abide in His commandments. There is no argument. If you wish to keep arguing and display fruit of that manner. Then I suppose there is nothing I can do. But like everything and anything in the life of a Christian. It is we that state sometimes. But always it is the Holy Spirit that convince. So if you WANT to take it up with me only. Sorry. Life does not work that way. I will be friendly with you. And on that basis I will not argue. I have no reason to argue. I don't wish to convince you nor win a debate. I don't have to prove myself. I hope you receive peace and love and understanding in all that you seek from God.

Kind regards

 

[zone]

A rock will not produce more than that which God gives it grace to do. A pearl can be given only to those that seek. Those that understand parables cannot proclaim more than the grace they have been given. Those that proclaim cannot give the secrets to all.

what rubbish.
what gnostic garbage you use to try to lure the sheep away from the safety of the fold in the MYSTERIES.

your stuff isn't new.

your game isn't hidden.

For secrets are for those that listen, not to man, but to God. I cannot and will not argue with you.

yes you will.
you answer to THE CHURCH not the other way around.

what SECRETS?

the women who don't know better wil listen to you.
but i'll be against you every step of the way.

i got all day and night.

You have a high intellect and think your way through the things you read, but your spirit does not read.

ya.....the PARTY LINE.

HEAD KNOWLEDGE RIGHT?

get stupid and gullible so the NAR can take over.

not while i draw breath.

I am glad for one thing. And I pray this does not change. That you abide your ways in the service of Christ Jesus. May you carry the fruit of His Spirit in your words and deeds and thoughts. Those who God wish to hear will hear. I don't proclaim to be more or less than you.

oh yes you do.
you claim to be AN APOSTLE.

i want PROOF. and contact info.

No one knows their position in Christ.

WRONG BUD.
i know mine.

i don't need a GUARDIAN.

I am not part of free masonry. I will not tell you what to believe.

maybe not, but you're busy telling others what to believe.

i won't let you get away with it because you are A FRAUD.

sound fair?

since you're already lying about being an apostle, you can not be trusted AT ALL.

For if you believe that apostles are here today walking amongst you or you believe that there was only the apostles in the Bible. That will not change your salvation. It might help you to understand things, maybe, but it will definately not make you more or less of a child of God.

really?
how stupid do you think i am?
do you think i don't know what's coming?

We all know how to that and that is to abide in His commandments. There is no argument. If you wish to keep arguing and display fruit of that manner. Then I suppose there is nothing I can do.

no, there probably isn't anything you can do, since i'll be right here.

i know what the Commandments are...you're in serious trouble already. either that or you are seriously mentally ill - but we both know that isn't true....either way, you are false and dangerous.

But like everything and anything in the life of a Christian. It is we that state sometimes. But always it is the Holy Spirit that convince. So if you WANT to take it up with me only. Sorry. Life does not work that way.

i want your credentials. and your real name.

I will be friendly with you. And on that basis I will not argue. I have no reason to argue. I don't wish to convince you nor win a debate. I don't have to prove myself.

you absolutely DO have to prove yourself.

this isn't a game.

contacts please, apostle.

 

[AnandaHya]

i don't need a GUARDIAN.

well there is Jesus, but He is the only guardian needed.

so how do you Biblically test if someone is an apostle?

I found some scripture verses earlier today... hmmm ..where are those notes......

they should be able to boast of the same things Paul post of in these verses. most people are not willing to commit so fully to God and none would be able to endure being beaten, stone to the point of death, thrown in prison, poisoned, refusing to be worshiped as an incarnated god (mercury in Paul's case), etc.

why would anyone want to go around saying they are an apostle unless GOD called them to be is beyond my understanding (well we do have the wolves in their fancy suits and bling bling magician tricks and familiar spirits)

but here are the Bible verses and there are more

2 Corinthians 11

I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?
30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. 31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.

 

[zone]

so how do you Biblically test if someone is an apostle?

the foundation was laid already. no more APOSTLES.

Ephesians 2:18-22
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:13
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 

[AnandaHya]

what is the difference between evangelist and apostles? (i know zone but for the people who believe in apostles, I would like to know the difference)

I was told an apostle lays the foundation of new churches but evangelist do that too. what is the distinction?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

the foundation was laid already. no more APOSTLES.

Ephesians 2:18-22
For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 3:13
For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

Technically most churches today do have a residing apostle however, most denominations now refer to them as bishops, that is for those churches who choose to subject themselves to a greater authority (usually regional) than there own pastors, deacons & elders.

Basically the role of an apostle originally was to a plant church, to disciple them for a time until a the apostle felt that there were enough mature believers in the faith to grow and carry on the work without his daily involvement thus the apostle would move on to plant another church(es). Often times the apostle(s) and the congregations would write to one another for whatever reason (usually for edification and / or doctrinal correction) and this how we got the books of the bible.

The problem here is not whether or not that God ordains modern day apostles. If you were to visit various missions throughout Africa and Southeast Asia you would see for yourself that several missionary operations have successfully spread throughout predominantly nonchristian nations using the model of Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors & teachers. The missionary alliance that grew out of the ministry school that I attended swept across the nation of Indonesia, starting with a handful people in one location and in less than 20 years established over 50 large & vibrant churches. Not an easy task in a nation well known for being radically islamic.

The real problem today lies with the fact that you have people who are calling themselves "apostles" as if this role has some kind of significance or authority that has been handed down throughout the centuriesis, a type of spiritual office that others should not only recognize but also submit themselves to. This type of "Apostle" is a distortion of truth and is being used by some as a means to manipulate others. I do agree that no such office exists (at least not in this context) and I definitely would not follow someone blindly simply because they like to refer themselves as an "Apostle".

 

[AnandaHya]

the church I went to in college had a sign over the door that read "Jesus came to take away our sins not our minds" we should not accept anything blindly. Job asked God questions and was answered and humbled. Then he was forgiven and restored.

 

[loveschild]

a test then? truly I post concerning spiritual gifts because many have told me that Apostles and prophets and speaking in Tongues have ceased upon the completion of the cannon and I would like to test that against God's truth. We are to test the spirits and I have two before me that debate both sides of the issue. I suspect they are like that doormen riddle that have them both liars, but all good lies mix in a kernel of truth to make it more easily swallow.

what is a Word Guardian? Do you know of someone you believe to be an apostle? you may pm me if you like.

Psalm 19:13-14
Amplified Bible (AMP)
13Keep back Your servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me! Then shall I be blameless, and I shall be innocent and clear of great transgression.
14Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my [firm, impenetrable] Rock and my Redeemer.

AnandaHya
The gifts are real. You know that. You can't even waste your time on people who want to believe lies. They heard a lie and just believed it. Spend your time on people who think for their own selves.
Just be nice and love them and know they are deceived.
I hear people all the time who say ones who don't believe in the gifts go to heaven like the ones who do believe, except they never live in the Kingdom now as they should.
I question this type of thinking a lot. Can one be a child of God and call God a liar? The gifts are written in the book. The book says Gods children will do even more than Jesus did.
What do you think about this?

 

[loveschild]

well there is Jesus, but He is the only guardian needed.

so how do you Biblically test if someone is an apostle?

I found some scripture verses earlier today... hmmm ..where are those notes......

they should be able to boast of the same things Paul post of in these verses. most people are not willing to commit so fully to God and none would be able to endure being beaten, stone to the point of death, thrown in prison, poisoned, refusing to be worshiped as an incarnated god (mercury in Paul's case), etc.

why would anyone want to go around saying they are an apostle unless GOD called them to be is beyond my understanding (well we do have the wolves in their fancy suits and bling bling magician tricks and familiar spirits)

but here are the Bible verses and there are more

2 Corinthians 11

I am more: in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often. 24 From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods; once I was stoned; three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I have been in the deep; 26 in journeys often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils of my own countrymen, in perils of the Gentiles, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; 27 in weariness and toil, in sleeplessness often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness— 28 besides the other things, what comes upon me daily: my deep concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to stumble, and I do not burn with indignation?
30 If I must boast, I will boast in the things which concern my infirmity. 31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying.

There are lot's of people who work for God and they are not beaten and whipped all the time. Paul even ignored the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit sent him and man who told him not to go into ungodly lands. Paul was told he would bound. Paul ignored the advice from God and went any way.
One who uses the protection God offers and bares much fruit is a more shinning example of servant of the Lord.
Saying no I'm calling on God to protect me from being eaten by a lion is better than many who say OK I just want to get out of this world and go to heaven not do my work for God any more on earth I'll let the lions eat me is not the way to go.