Only The Cross
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Even when you leave your parents to a new family, there biological connection as mother and father is still there. What I am saying is this connection isn't undone by our struggles with our parents, but God's bond to us at spiritual rebirth is even deeper. So God won't leave us when we struggle with faithfulness, due to His payment for us when we believe in Him.
People see this, and say.. I can then do whatever I want. Well that isn't thinking spiritually, not thinking about the grace given, or the grace giver. You could do this after salvation and do whatever you want.. but be prepared for misery and continual conviction and rebuke from Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
this is ridiculous
I read the op and I applaud it
there is nothing in the op to suggest we worship the cross. you give a manufactured answer totally lacking in comprehension and go on and on about unrelated subject matter
you might as well have said 'bah bah black sheep'
That's what I saw also. I don't think the OP is talking about worshipping the cross, but Jesus with the cross as the symbol of what He has done.
I do not believe the verse is speaking about Satan being the God of this world. Satan is called the Prince of the world but not the God of it. Certainly much of the world worships Satan in one form or another but in order to know whom is being spoken of we simply have to use the context:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
So who was it that "blinded the minds of them which believe not"?
It was God.
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
Joh 12:40 He (God) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
The HE here is God and this is very similar language. God blinded them so they could not convert and be healed! Isn't that what the other verse is saying? Also note that in both scriptures the people being blinded didn't believe prior to the blinding:
"blinded the minds of them which believe not"
"Therefore they could not believe" "He (God) hath blinded their eyes"
Same God doing the blinding and same people being blinded.
Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Romans 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear) unto this day.
Some will say it's a little "g" on god so that means its not God. Not so. There are no capitals in the manuscripts. The small g is purely the translators opinion. It is not fact nor is it done because of any small letter in the manuscripts.
While Satan can be considered a false god of this world, he simply isn't the one being spoken of because it is God which blinds so people cannot convert to Christ and be healed.
I have removed capitals because they don't exist in the manuscripts and I don't want the concept of capitals interfering with understanding what is being said or providing a bias. I also removed the verse numbers so it can be read naturally as Paul intended.
2Co 3:11 through 2Co 4:15
for if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
and not as moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in christ.
but even unto this day, when moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
*God blinded these people and even today that blindness remains.
nevertheless when it shall turn to the lord, the vail shall be taken away. now the lord is that spirit: and where the spirit of the lord is, there is liberty.
but we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the spirit of the lord.
therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of god deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of god. but if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
*Context matters and the context here is regarding God blinding Israel. Was Israel lost? Was the Gospel hidden from them? Yes. Jer_50:6 "My people hath been lost sheep" . Who the lost are here, the ones that the gospel is hidden from is all here in this letter. Israel.
in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of christ, who is the image of god, should shine unto them.
*Keeping context sound, there has been no abrupt change inserting satan into this dialogue. The subject is Israel, the ones who are lost, the ones God blinded, and the ones the Gospel was hidden from. "god" here is the same "god" Paul has been speaking of and the ones being blinded by this "god" are the same ones Paul just mentioned literally a handful of sentences before! Israel.
for we preach not ourselves, but christ jesus the lord; and ourselves your servants for jesus' sake.
for god, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of god in the face of jesus christ.
*Contexually this is the SAME GOD as the one above, " the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not".
but we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of god, and not of us.
we are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair;
persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;
always bearing about in the body the dying of the lord jesus, that the life also of jesus might be made manifest in our body.
for we which live are alway delivered unto death for jesus' sake, that the life also of jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
so then death worketh in us, but life in you.
we having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, i believed, and therefore have i spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
knowing that he which raised up the lord jesus shall raise up us also by jesus, and shall present us with you.
for all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of god.
*same God being spoken of, same people blinded.
Guess what? This is the same thing Paul mentioned in the book of Romans earlier:
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
And that came from something Christ spoke of:
Joh 12:38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
Who hath believed their report? Not Israel, who was blinded. Not Israel, because that report was the Gospel and it was hidden from them, 2Co_3:14 and 2Co_4:3-4
Joh 12:39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
They could not believe because God blinded them and hid the Gospel from them.
Joh 12:40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
He blinded their eyes and hardened their heart. Why? So they could not see nor understand and be converted and healed by God.
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Why blind them to keep them from being healed and finding that glorious light of Christ? It wasn't time for that yet.
What John 12:40 says is the same thing that 2 Corinthians 4:4 says:
God "hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."
God "hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
1. "hath blinded the minds of them which believe not"
1. "hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart"
2. "lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ" "should shine unto them"
2. "they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted" nor healed.
Having your eyes "blinded" and your heart "hardened" is the same thing as having your "mind" blinded.
"converting and being healed" is the same thing as receiving "the light of the glorious gospel of Christ".
I thought that the original manuscripts were written in all capitals. Maybe later ones reverted to lower case. However, manuscripts in all capitals actually strengthens the case and the translation making the first letter "g" for god in lower case may have been a copyist's decision on basis that he might have believed that it was Satan who blinded the eyes.
There is another thought about the verse. One translation says "the god of this age has blinded the minds", etc. This may not have meant God or Satan, but people's devotion to the attractions and philosophies of the age we live in. Demas departed from Paul's ministry team having loved this present world. The unbelievers' devotion to the world may be their god and that devotion has blinded their minds to the truth of the Gospel. One of the examples is evolution. People's devotion to evolution has blinded their minds to the truth that a living God created the world and everything in it, and that the moon is there because God put it there.
They were written in one font size, with no idea of higher or lower case. Thus God or god has same exact meaning in the originals.
Using a lower case g was translators personal choice. It is not based on anything from the manuscripts.
I just wanted to point out that there is evidence that God has blinded people so "god of this world" could mean real God of this world, God, not false god of the world, satan.
I think that the three choices are viable, but as for me, I prefer the third one where if a person makes this world his god then he is blinded to the truth.
The cross was just two pieces of wood tied together which the Romans used to crucify, murder, thousands of people.
IT IS ONLY JESUS that is our salvation!
ONLY JESUS! What He did on the cross established the New Covenant Grace, and the precious blood He shed IS WHAT MAKES us worthy to become the children of God.
THE CROSS DOES NOT SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
IT IS ONLY JESUS that is our salvation!
ONLY JESUS! What He did on the cross established the New Covenant Grace, and the precious blood He shed IS WHAT MAKES us worthy to become the children of God.
THE CROSS DOES NOT SAVE US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”
Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”
1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”
Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”
Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”
Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …
Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”
Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”
Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”
Romans 10:9
that if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised Him out from the dead, you will be saved
There were many people who were crucified on a cross in those days. What makes the Messiah unique was that The Almighty Father resurrected Him back to life to ascend to heaven and perform the ministry on reconciliation with His blood...for us.
Not quite sure what you are saying here, if it is general, scripture or personal to me. There is a verse about how people are supposed to leave their parents families and make their own. Spreading the faith over the world. Faith from above to guide you, God over man, man over woman, woman over children. Personally I do have contact with my parents.
Did voulenteer doing some work for them while mother was ill and had an operation this spring. Might do it later in the fall too. We do not share anything in common, so not pretending that we do. There it stops. I do not do familyevents anymore. They have some family that is incomppatible with me, so I am out. It is not good for them to have conflict at christmas and vacationtime. So I will celebrate christmas by my self this year. First christmas with christian focus, my parents family is antitheists. I do not struggle with faithfulness, do not even know what it means. Telling people to not sin here, and that I do not want to sin anymore ever again.
What if there is family against family? What side do you pick? What family? The one you was born into and left, or the one you joined later?
Then i guess you dont use a Bible?
As if you do, then yours must not have this verse in it.
Ephesians 4:11-16
11 And God gave to the body of Christ, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
So, dont let the bible get in the way of your church that apparently does not use a bible.
I have not finished the bible yet. Covered like 25% perhaps. Your verse changes nothing for me. It is worded very different in my language, your bible must be even older than mine. It says that God brought gifts to theese groups you mention. And I read the entire book, do not take it conveniently out of context, so I can ignore the parts I cannot live up to. I have to live up to it all, I want to be worthy. I could have just call myself christian after the scripture that changed my heart, and only know the John the baptist book. Going through life not even knowing if I did sin on various levels, would be convenient. Not right for me, there is more to it, and it would not be real and honest on my part, if I do not learn what I can. I want to live it as best I can.
You are wrong again.
Read 2nd Corinthians 4:4
"""""""In whom the god of this world (satan) = hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."""""
the resurrection proves that Christ on the Cross is our Salvation.
Jesus is also "unique" based on the fact that He is the "bread of heaven", the WORD of God.....the "prince of Peace", "God in the Flesh", "Virgin born".."sinless"...... many things make Him totally unique.
You are 25% into the bible, and are already trying to play the role of...."i know it all, you can't teach me".
That's not a very wise mind you are involved with, mindfulzen.
What are you, about 14 yrs old,? As that is how a very young mind, SOUNDS.
That attitude, will keep you in the dark.
Thats a fact.
No, you strawman me. I have clearly stated that I have to learn more, and do not know it all. You kind of project, because you are the missionary here, telling me to change my faith. That I am already saved, without even reading the book. 25% is enough to have read about some do nots from various prophets, and commandments. And the commandments is a 10 point list I have known all my life. I did not try to convert you, I said faith is personal, that this is my faith. Only between me and God. You are welcome to try to guide me, if you think I am wrong, I do not block, and like different perspectives. But saying that I deny christ is offensive. Think it over a bit. It relates a bit to the book you pasted a portion of.
The following is passage 15, and it says the following translated from my bible. "we must be faithful to the truth in love, in one and all, and grow up to the head, that is Christ".
How can I ignore that? I cannot, I must take the entire books meaning and all it mandates me.
If me talking about the Cross of Christ as the only way to go to heaven, is "kidron trying to change my faith", then you really do have some spiritual issues.
Truly
I am done, you keep pasting out of context comments from me, and the bible, ignoring the context. Will not argue with you, I joined a conversation, not indocterinationcamp. I cannot discuss scripture with somebody who pastes only part of my comment, and reply yo that, and ignore the rest. So continuing here would probably result in violating the terms, so goodbye.
This is you.
""""""I have not finished the bible yet. Covered like 25% perhaps. Your verse changes nothing for me."""""
So, i meet a lot of people who are just getting started in their walk of faith, who have decided they are the final authority.
Listed below are 3 verses you need to bond with.......... as if you can master their LIGHT....then they can protect you from dark lights who will lead you into error and keep you there.
Im not one of those, but you have no way to understand this yet.
Hebrews 13:9
1st Corinthians 11:1
Romans 3:21-28