Bible "versions"?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 30, 2021
330
29
18
Thus, the Whore of Babylon can be suggested as this dualistic cosmology
 
Jun 30, 2021
330
29
18
It is certainly true that it is responsible for the evils of Christianity and Islam

Jews don't really do much harm cuz there are hardly any of them, but most of their bad stuff is based on this too
 
Jun 30, 2021
330
29
18
Of course, the ramifications don't differ much

If you are close to God you will act in love

If you are far you will be chasing Satan to exhaust hate

Of course, Jesus dines with the sinner

God is there too... just more veiled
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,490
13,797
113
//The truth is that we don't have a single English translation on which to rely// This should scare you. This is exactly where I used to be . Now I see its the Kjv .
Scare? Perfect love casts out fear.

I have no need to rely on only one translation. My reliance is on Jesus Christ. ;)
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
NO "single translation" to depend/rely on? IF "There is ONE LORD," Then WHY NOT ONLY "ONE Word, That God Has MAGNIFIED Above All of HIS Holy Name!"
(
Psalms 138:2)? Ignoring THIS will Most Likely be Detrimental TO Many believers' spiritual health! Please be Encouraged, Exhorted And Edified:

You will be astounded by the errors, omissions, and additions in the so-called ‘modern Bibles’ that significantly distort The Truth of God’s Word…versus the King James Authorized Version.
Is your Bible the Right One?

by Richard Jordan​

For we are not as many, which corrupt The Word of God…” (II Corinthians 2:17)

For over 350 years the Authorized Version, commonly known as the King James Bible, was used by the Body of Christ at large and confidently believed to be the Word of God. In the last 3 or 4 decades all this has changed.

Now we are faced with a variable Babel of confusion over the various Bible versions and English translations continuously being introduced on the market. There is a serious question which must be faced: Are these modern versions really reliable – are they really versions or, as many have come to claim, perversions of the Word of God?

Our examination of this important subject will by no means be exhaustive, given the space available to us here, but we hope to give the reader enough information that as an informed believer you can make a sound decision as to which Bible is reliable and which version in not.

A bit of background to begin with: In 1881 there was introduced into public circulation a new Bible text. It came through the work of the Revision Committee which produced the (English) Revised Version, 1881, and the American Standard Version, 1901.

This new Greek text developed by the Revision Committee, under the leadership and pressure of Westcott and Hort, is the basis of modern translations. It has been used to replace the Received Text of the KJV and its predecessors. There is, however, a growing awareness that this new Greek text is not reliable - and more and more are returning, we have, to the KJV.

As we compare verses, we will see why this is true. We have objective evidence as the reliability of the KJV as opposed to the new bible versions - overwhelming evidence that new versions are not simply better translations. Nor are they simply revisions of the KJV. Rather they are new and different Bible texts which often question, discredit and water down important and vital truths basic to the Christian faith (cf. Genesis 3:1).

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE

Let’s start by understanding that there is a great deal of difference between the KJV and the modern versions. This difference is not simply a translations difference. It is in fact a basic textual difference: they are translations of two different lines of Greek texts. A few examples must suffice:

In Matthew 1:25 the words “her firstborn son” are consistently omitted by modern versions. In Matthew 6:13 the ending of “For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen” is omitted. This explains why the Protestant version of this prayer is more lengthy than the Roman Catholic rendition. The KJV is the text of the Protestant Reformation while the new versions embrace the Roman reading.

Verses such as Matthew 17:21 and 23:14 are omitted entirely, while in Matthew 24:36 the words “nor the Son” are added.

There are literally hundreds of these type textual alternations which have nothing to do with translation. They come because of the difference in what is being translated - the Greek texts being used are substantially different. And the difference is by no means insignificant.

In the modern versions numerous verses have been changed in such a way as to affect truths basic to the Christian faith. While many are quite subtle, they nonetheless provide the type of objective evidence which convicts these new versions of perverting God’s Word. Again, space allows only a few examples:

In John 1:27 the words “is preferred before me” are omitted, so that John is made to say only that Christ came after him. In John 6:47 “he that believeth on me hath everlasting life” is changed to read: “he who believes has everlasting life” (NIV) The words “on me” are left out [footnote 1] .

John 6:65, 14:12 and 16:10, have Christ calling to God “the Father instead of “my Father,” as in KJV. In Revelation 1:11 the phrase “I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last,” referring to Christ-and an obvious proof that Jesus Christ is the Jehovah of Isaiah 44:6-is omitted. Other titles of Christ which indicate His deity are regularly omitted or altered in such a way as to not connote deity (e.g., Matthew 27:64, 9:35; I Corinthians 15:47, 16:22; Romans 9:6, 14:10; Colossians 1:2; II Timothy 4:22, etc.).

Other vital truths are also affected. For examples, in I Corinthians 5:7 the words “for us” are omitted, affecting the doctrine of the vicarious death of Christ by suggesting merely that He was sacrificed and did die, but not necessarily “for us” (see also I Peter 4:1). It isn’t surprising that Hebrews 1:3 omits the words “by Himself” from the phrase: “When He had by Himself purged our sins.” There is also Colossians 1:14 where the clause “through His blood” is omitted, casting doubt on the necessity of the shedding of Christ’s blood for redemption.

Then there is Luke 2:33 where the words “Joseph and his mother” are changed to read: “The child’s father and mother,” implying that Christ was not virgin-born. Not even a note of explanation is given. Surely the evidence for such an important change should have been offered.

In Luke 24:51 the words “And carried up into heaven,” referring to our Lord’s ascension, are omitted. In John 16:16 the words “because I go to the Father” are omitted.

By now it should be obvious that the new versions are not simply “better translations” or a revision of KJV. Rather they are new and different Bible texts. Nor is it true that they contain only minor changes which do not affect basic meanings.

The great number of passages (we have given only examples) altered or omitted so as to water down or attack the very truths the Bible teaches, especially where the person and work of Christ are concerned, is clear evidence that modern versions are dangerous to spiritual health.

1. We are using the New International Version for comparison quotes because of its present popularity. What is true of it however, is consistently true of other versions.

to be continued...
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
3,218
1,614
113
Midwest
Part II
Is your Bible the Right One?

by Richard Jordan​

SERIOUS QUESTIONS

Because of the subtle nature of the deception used to corrupt God’s Word, we want to offer three examples of the absolute devastation caused by these new versions. The complacent nature of current thinking in regard to these issues has caused some to pass off as only a minor irritant the numerous passages which are altered so as to eliminate or dilute statements on the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the vicarious atonement, etc.

Because of this, and the emotional allegiance often attached to those recommending the modern versions, we ask our readers to consider the impact of these three passages on their faith. These three passages are irrefutable, objective evidence that modern versions are unsafe.

1. Matthew 5:22: Often it is difficult to grasp the impact of what seems to an innocent omission. Here is a verse where this syndrome is demonstrated to be a subtle trap leading to spiritual destruction. In KJV the verse reads,

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

The NIV renders the verse thus:

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”

Did you catch the omission? The phrase “without a cause” is omitted from the statement “Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.” This does not seem to be too very consequential at first glance. But for a Bible student who is serious about believing and honoring the Word of God, this verse is devastating.

If the reader is diligent, it will not be long before he comes upon Mark 3:5, were we are told about our Lord:

And when he had LOOKED ROUND ABOUT ON THEM WITH ANGER, BEING GRIEVED FOR THE HARDNESS OF THEIR HEARTS…”

The problem is obvious: If the NIV reading is to stand, our lord is condemned by His own words.

This is no small matter! By this seemingly unimportant omission in Matthew 5:22 the modern versions have destroyed the sinlessness of the Lord Jesus Christ and established him as a sinner, condemned for failure to live by His own declaration.

2. Mark 1:2: This verse brings up the dementia associated with the use of modern versions. The following change is so amazing that we doubt anyone would believe it if the record was not clear. In KJV the verse reads,

As IT IS WRITTEN IN THE PROPHETS, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

The NIV rendering is consistent with other modern versions:

IT IS WRITTEN IN ISAIAH THE PROPHET: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way.”

Any reference edition or center column reference will quickly establish the problem for modern versions: The quotation in Mark 1:2 is not from Isaiah. It is from Malachi 3:1. Mark 1:3 is a quote from Isaiah 40:3. Thus two prophets are being quoted, not one. The statement in NIV (and other new versions) is simply false.

This is simply a case of the Greek text and resultant English translation being wrong. It is a mistake, plain and simple. No amount of sophistry can argue around it. Notice the verse does not say, “It was spoken in Isaiah” (as in the case of Matthew 27:9’s quote of Jeremiah). No. The quote is clearly said to have been “written in Isaiah.”

Two possibilities exits: Either Isaiah, as we have it, is incomplete, omitting the quote (and thus the Bible itself is not complete), or Mark is mistaken, having given the wrong reference (which would mean that the Holy Spirit made a mistake writing the Scripture).

These two choices leave us in the unenviable position of having to adjust our understanding of Biblical infallibility. The doctrine of infallibility will not stand the test if the reading of the new versions is accepted.

3. Hebrews 3:16: We add this reference because it too seems to be too impossible to be real. Unfortunately it is all too real-and illustrative of the caliber of modern versions. KJV renders the verse this way:

For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit NOT ALL THAT CAME OUT OF EGYPT BY MOSES.”

The verses changed in NIV to read:

Who were they who heard and rebelled? WHERE THEY NOT ALL THOSE MOSES LED OUT OF EGYPT?”

In others words, KJV says that “not all that came out of Egypt by Moses” rebelled while NIV indicates that “all those Moses led out of Egypt” did rebel. Any junior in Sunday School knows which of the two is right!

After four decades of wilderness wanderings, Moses addressed Israel as she prepares to enter the promised land. Deuteronomy 29:2 tells us,

And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did BEFORE YOUR EYES IN THE LAND OF EGYPT UNTO PHARAOH…”
(cf. Deuteronomy 1:30).


Obviously, some of these who were in Egypt and saw with their own eyes what God had done there also entered into the promised land, having not rebelled in the wilderness. As we said, any junior aged boy or girl could name two of them: Joshua and Caleb! One wonders what the translators of the NIV and other versions have been reading.

Why should we accept a Bible version that is not true - especially when we have one that is? Why would we accept a Bible that openly denies the sinlessness of our Lord and that makes the doctrine of Scriptural infallibility a falsehood?

THE BOOK WILL DEFEND ITSELF

We do not fear for God’s Word, He’ll take care of it! We fear only for its readers. These new versions are simply unsafe to rely on.

We trust this information will help our readers to understand this issue more clearly. Compare the verses for yourself and you will see that we do have a reliable, dependable copy of the Word of God in our own language. God has preserved His Word and made it available to us in our own language in an absolutely dependable form, the King James Bible.

---------------------------------------
Surely, honest and diligent students of God's Word do not expect us to believe that God Would MAGNIFY "corrupt perversions" Above All of HIS Holy Name!"
(
Psalms 138:2), Correct?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,490
13,797
113
Part II
Is your Bible the Right One?

by Richard Jordan​

SERIOUS QUESTIONS

Because of the subtle nature of the deception used to corrupt God’s Word, we want to offer three examples of the absolute devastation caused by these new versions. The complacent nature of current thinking in regard to these issues has caused some to pass off as only a minor irritant the numerous passages which are altered so as to eliminate or dilute statements on the deity of Christ, the virgin birth, the vicarious atonement, etc.

Because of this, and the emotional allegiance often attached to those recommending the modern versions, we ask our readers to consider the impact of these three passages on their faith. These three passages are irrefutable, objective evidence that modern versions are unsafe.

1. Matthew 5:22: Often it is difficult to grasp the impact of what seems to an innocent omission. Here is a verse where this syndrome is demonstrated to be a subtle trap leading to spiritual destruction. In KJV the verse reads,

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.”

The NIV renders the verse thus:

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.”

Did you catch the omission? The phrase “without a cause” is omitted from the statement “Whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.” This does not seem to be too very consequential at first glance. But for a Bible student who is serious about believing and honoring the Word of God, this verse is devastating.

If the reader is diligent, it will not be long before he comes upon Mark 3:5, were we are told about our Lord:

And when he had LOOKED ROUND ABOUT ON THEM WITH ANGER, BEING GRIEVED FOR THE HARDNESS OF THEIR HEARTS…”

The problem is obvious: If the NIV reading is to stand, our lord is condemned by His own words.

This is no small matter! By this seemingly unimportant omission in Matthew 5:22 the modern versions have destroyed the sinlessness of the Lord Jesus Christ and established him as a sinner, condemned for failure to live by His own declaration.

2. Mark 1:2: This verse brings up the dementia associated with the use of modern versions. The following change is so amazing that we doubt anyone would believe it if the record was not clear. In KJV the verse reads,

As IT IS WRITTEN IN THE PROPHETS, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.”

The NIV rendering is consistent with other modern versions:

IT IS WRITTEN IN ISAIAH THE PROPHET: I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way.”

Any reference edition or center column reference will quickly establish the problem for modern versions: The quotation in Mark 1:2 is not from Isaiah. It is from Malachi 3:1. Mark 1:3 is a quote from Isaiah 40:3. Thus two prophets are being quoted, not one. The statement in NIV (and other new versions) is simply false.

This is simply a case of the Greek text and resultant English translation being wrong. It is a mistake, plain and simple. No amount of sophistry can argue around it. Notice the verse does not say, “It was spoken in Isaiah” (as in the case of Matthew 27:9’s quote of Jeremiah). No. The quote is clearly said to have been “written in Isaiah.”

Two possibilities exits: Either Isaiah, as we have it, is incomplete, omitting the quote (and thus the Bible itself is not complete), or Mark is mistaken, having given the wrong reference (which would mean that the Holy Spirit made a mistake writing the Scripture).

These two choices leave us in the unenviable position of having to adjust our understanding of Biblical infallibility. The doctrine of infallibility will not stand the test if the reading of the new versions is accepted.

3. Hebrews 3:16: We add this reference because it too seems to be too impossible to be real. Unfortunately it is all too real-and illustrative of the caliber of modern versions. KJV renders the verse this way:

For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit NOT ALL THAT CAME OUT OF EGYPT BY MOSES.”

The verses changed in NIV to read:

Who were they who heard and rebelled? WHERE THEY NOT ALL THOSE MOSES LED OUT OF EGYPT?”

In others words, KJV says that “not all that came out of Egypt by Moses” rebelled while NIV indicates that “all those Moses led out of Egypt” did rebel. Any junior in Sunday School knows which of the two is right!

After four decades of wilderness wanderings, Moses addressed Israel as she prepares to enter the promised land. Deuteronomy 29:2 tells us,

And Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the Lord did BEFORE YOUR EYES IN THE LAND OF EGYPT UNTO PHARAOH…”
(cf. Deuteronomy 1:30).


Obviously, some of these who were in Egypt and saw with their own eyes what God had done there also entered into the promised land, having not rebelled in the wilderness. As we said, any junior aged boy or girl could name two of them: Joshua and Caleb! One wonders what the translators of the NIV and other versions have been reading.

Why should we accept a Bible version that is not true - especially when we have one that is? Why would we accept a Bible that openly denies the sinlessness of our Lord and that makes the doctrine of Scriptural infallibility a falsehood?

THE BOOK WILL DEFEND ITSELF

We do not fear for God’s Word, He’ll take care of it! We fear only for its readers. These new versions are simply unsafe to rely on.

We trust this information will help our readers to understand this issue more clearly. Compare the verses for yourself and you will see that we do have a reliable, dependable copy of the Word of God in our own language. God has preserved His Word and made it available to us in our own language in an absolutely dependable form, the King James Bible.

---------------------------------------
Surely, honest and diligent students of God's Word do not expect us to believe that God Would MAGNIFY "corrupt perversions" Above All of HIS Holy Name!"
(
Psalms 138:2), Correct?
I see that you haven't responded to my questions and challenges from page one. Repeating your message without responding to questions is not discussing; it's lobbying. As for the quoted diatribe from Mr. Jordan, it's shameful. There is no justification for fear-mongering and distributing misinformation.

If you prefer the KJV, that's fine. If you make illogical, long-since-refuted, or ridiculous arguments in favour of the KJV, I will happily show them for what they are.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
Hi.. Is there any bible versions that anyone believes may be closer translations to the original languages than some of the more popular versions?
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,490
13,797
113
Hi.. Is there any bible versions that anyone believes may be closer translations to the original languages than some of the more popular versions?
There is no simple answer to your question. Firstly, there is no single source-language text. There are almost 6,000 Greek manuscripts of New Testament texts, and hundreds of thousands of minor variations among them (most of which are quite insignificant). Both Hebrew and Greek are very different from English… not just in their alphabets but in their word order and syntax. There is no single “correct” way to translate many sentences. There are words in H and G that don’t exist in English, and idioms that simply cannot be translated.

So, you get some translations such as the New American Standard which is highly ‘word-accurate’, but doesn’t always flow well in English, over to a paraphrase such as The Message, which seeks to get the gist of the text in modern lingo but loses much of the formal ‘word-for-word’ accuracy.

In order to choose, I suggest you look at a range of translations. Bible Gateway (biblegateway.com) is helpful here; you can view one verse in dozens of translations. Most folks select one translation as their primary source and read others for different perspectives.

What I can tell you confidently is that there is no perfect translation… despite what King-James-only proponents will claim.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
god design it so.u must seek the truth like a hidden treasure.u see bibles are perfect in their imperfections.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,490
13,797
113
1 God is a hidden treasure 2 everything happens 4 a reason 3 we are made perfect in weakness.
None of which has anything to do with the quality of Bible translations.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
I have found NASB and NIV wishy washy, plus people that read from them tend to have more arguments than those that stick with KJV because of the differences, and they have way more questions...because of all the missing verses and words in those versions!

Its like they read it and they are like they are doing a jigsaw puzzle with heaps of missing pieces.

Im like why not read the KJV and then you wont have this problem, but a lot of people now refuse to entertain the idea...dismissing it as 'too oldfashioned'

look you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, plus its free, so why hold out on scripture?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,130
3,689
113
Hi.. Is there any bible versions that anyone believes may be closer translations to the original languages than some of the more popular versions?
The KJV is the perfect, pure words of God in the English language. I don't need the originals. If I needed the originals, God would have made sure He preserved them.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
The KJV is the perfect, pure words of God in the English language. I don't need the originals. If I needed the originals, God would have made sure He preserved them.
I appreciate the response, but I disagree. I was trying to see if there were people that looked at what the Father literally says as His word and not a translated bible.
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
I have found NASB and NIV wishy washy, plus people that read from them tend to have more arguments than those that stick with KJV because of the differences, and they have way more questions...because of all the missing verses and words in those versions!

Its like they read it and they are like they are doing a jigsaw puzzle with heaps of missing pieces.

Im like why not read the KJV and then you wont have this problem, but a lot of people now refuse to entertain the idea...dismissing it as 'too oldfashioned'

look you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, plus its free, so why hold out on scripture?
I do agree that there are issues with the bible versions that you mentioned, however I believe there are some in the KJV as well (not including it being old fashioned). I was just speaking of translations that don't represent the original writings well. There are some bibles even older than the KJV that at least in some places seem to have translated certain verses better (E.G. The great bible and the Coverdale), but that doesn't necessarily mean they do a better job overall.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
I appreciate the response, but I disagree. I was trying to see if there were people that looked at what the Father literally says as His word and not a translated bible.
there r things in the Hebrew text that they do not translate.Et being one of them it is the same as az in English = alph omega.Now this is most of the time. et is sometimes translated as a different word,or it's called a direct object pointer,,that is some time just a lie...much stuff like that,but i'm getting 2 wordy
 
Aug 8, 2021
620
37
28
there r things in the Hebrew text that they do not translate.Et being one of them it is the same as az in English = alph omega.Now this is most of the time. et is sometimes translated as a different word,or it's called a direct object pointer,,that is some time just a lie...much stuff like that,but i'm getting 2 wordy
My issue is with things like "Pasach" being translated "Easter"... or "Sabbaths" being translated as "Weeks".... And I know this is subjective, but just being overboard with the interpretations.

If I tell my wife "That isn't my favorite dress that you own".... and she says "So you're calling me ugly".... that interpretation of my words is way off.

I would prefer not to see that type of thing in the bible I choose.
 
Aug 20, 2021
1,863
310
83
My issue is with things like "Pasach" being translated "Easter"... or "Sabbaths" being translated as "Weeks".... And I know this is subjective, but just being overboard with the interpretations.

If I tell my wife "That isn't my favorite dress that you own".... and she says "So you're calling me ugly".... that interpretation of my words is way off.

I would prefer not to see that type of thing in the bible I choose.
Don't u think that we have to become the translation to a certain degree?but i agree...but less then i did when i was younger.i so wanted a better translation. .besides ever one sort is their own bible.