Eternal Security: What do you do with James 2?
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yep God told him something that God was going to do for Abraham and Abraham believed it. Abraham wasn’t told what he had to do for God , but what God was going to do for him.
later Abraham’s faith was out to the test he still acted by the same faith in God but this time it was asking Abraham to do something by that faith.
faith is the key of it is based upon Gods word it cannot fail. If it is placed in ourselves it will ever fail.
later Abraham’s faith was out to the test he still acted by the same faith in God but this time it was asking Abraham to do something by that faith.
faith is the key of it is based upon Gods word it cannot fail. If it is placed in ourselves it will ever fail.
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For James 2:17 and 22 I think it helps to look at the analogy in James 2:26:
“For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.”
James 2:26 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.26.ESV
Here the word body (soma) means a physical body and is analogous to faith. Our spirit is analogous to works. When you look up the word nekra you see words like unable, ineffective, powerless, and unresponsive along with dead. The obvious thing here is that the body doesn’t disappear or cease to exist when it is separated from the spirit. It is still there. So, faith apart from works doesn’t mean that faith doesn’t exist its just ineffective, powerless, and unresponsive. Again, think about Romans 4:5. This verse alone implies that it is possible for faith to exist without works.
“And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,”
Romans 4:5 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/rom.4.5.ESV
For verse 22 the analogy tells us that the spirit makes the body responsive, effective and powerful. Thinking back to the word profit in 2:14, works make our faith effective and powerful, resulting in increase or gain to the cause of Christ.
With all of this being said I do believe that a true faith will produce many good works.
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i allways thought to endure to the end was also to stand firm in your faith for reason being the enemy can make you endure really badly, if you know what i mean. like if i do drugs i will invite the devil into my house, or if i do the quija board, i will invite the devil into my house, or if i smoke i could endure badly untill the end. but if i work at faith believe in faith and keep my temple clean, and work at good health, i will endure so much more easyier until the end, so what im saying is we all have to endure untill the end but some will love the endurance others will have a diffacult time by being unhealthy. im getting really health concsious u know, imworried about the middle age spread in 10 years, i really dont want to suffer with that one,
Then theres stability, if we save money for the future in our retirment we have hope we will live out our last years in security. if we dont save we have less hope, the devil wants us to have no future no hope no stability and for us to quander our future., its a bit like the devil will tempt people to spend there savings on drink drugs and cigarettes or gambling, because the devil knows thats the way to ruin a future. its the same for processed food ive learned the makers make them so addictive.
Then theres stability, if we save money for the future in our retirment we have hope we will live out our last years in security. if we dont save we have less hope, the devil wants us to have no future no hope no stability and for us to quander our future., its a bit like the devil will tempt people to spend there savings on drink drugs and cigarettes or gambling, because the devil knows thats the way to ruin a future. its the same for processed food ive learned the makers make them so addictive.
Can't see what relevance of James 2 concerning eternal security.
It has nothing to do with it at all.
The whole chapter is based on personal favoritism.
That being how the rich were treating the poor.
James 2:1-4
Beware of Personal Favoritism
1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
James 2:8-9
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
V8 States that if you really fulfill the royal law you do well but if you don't you commit sin.
The royal being loveing your neighbor.
V9 concerning the law.
Leviticus 19:15-18
15 ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
With regards to Abraham.
James 2:21-24
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Was he justified when offering Isaac?
Yes he was but did it declare him as being righteous?
No it did not.
Genesis 15:5-6
5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
He believed this, it was his faith that declared him righteous and Isaac wasn't even born then.
Now if we want to look at actions or works that justify Abraham is it this
Genesis 15:7-11
7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
Firstly notice what God said to Abram.
He bought him out of Ur.
One day Abram is going around his business he hears God to leave his life in Ur to a land Abram knew nothing about.
Yet he went.
It was out of faith he did so.
Isaac was not born then.
So Abraham was not justified by offering Isaac but in doing so because of his faith his faith was justified by doing so.
This is what James is saying.
And here is the precursor
James 2:14-17
Faith Without Works Is Dead
(cf. Gen. 22; Josh. 2)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Let's look at what Jesus said.
Matthew 25:35-36
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
We see thirsty, naked, stranger .
Who was he talking to?
Matthew 25:37-40
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
So these people, the righteous people were justified by what?
Their works before men.
We are declared righteous by faith and as a result works will follow.
It has nothing to do with it at all.
The whole chapter is based on personal favoritism.
That being how the rich were treating the poor.
James 2:1-4
Beware of Personal Favoritism
1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality. 2 For if there should come into your assembly a man with gold rings, in fine apparel, and there should also come in a poor man in filthy clothes, 3 and you pay attention to the one wearing the fine clothes and say to him, “You sit here in a good place,” and say to the poor man, “You stand there,” or, “Sit here at my footstool,” 4 have you not shown partiality among yourselves, and become judges with evil thoughts?
James 2:8-9
8 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
V8 States that if you really fulfill the royal law you do well but if you don't you commit sin.
The royal being loveing your neighbor.
V9 concerning the law.
Leviticus 19:15-18
15 ‘You shall do no injustice in judgment. You shall not be partial to the poor, nor honor the person of the mighty. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor. 16 You shall not go about as a talebearer among your people; nor shall you take a stand against the life of your neighbor: I am the Lord.
17 You shall not hate your brother in your heart. You shall surely rebuke your neighbor, and not bear sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.
With regards to Abraham.
James 2:21-24
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
Was he justified when offering Isaac?
Yes he was but did it declare him as being righteous?
No it did not.
Genesis 15:5-6
5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the Lord, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
He believed this, it was his faith that declared him righteous and Isaac wasn't even born then.
Now if we want to look at actions or works that justify Abraham is it this
Genesis 15:7-11
7 Then He said to him, “I am the Lord, who brought you out of Ur of the Chaldeans, to give you this land to inherit it.”
8 And he said, “Lord God, how shall I know that I will inherit it?”
9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.
Firstly notice what God said to Abram.
He bought him out of Ur.
One day Abram is going around his business he hears God to leave his life in Ur to a land Abram knew nothing about.
Yet he went.
It was out of faith he did so.
Isaac was not born then.
So Abraham was not justified by offering Isaac but in doing so because of his faith his faith was justified by doing so.
This is what James is saying.
And here is the precursor
James 2:14-17
Faith Without Works Is Dead
(cf. Gen. 22; Josh. 2)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Let's look at what Jesus said.
Matthew 25:35-36
35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
We see thirsty, naked, stranger .
Who was he talking to?
Matthew 25:37-40
37 “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’
So these people, the righteous people were justified by what?
Their works before men.
We are declared righteous by faith and as a result works will follow.
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it’s probably a biblical
Analogy or rather example
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.”
Genesis 2:7 KJV
until the spirit of life came the body was nothing but formed dust and would have remained dust but when the spirit came into the body man became a living soul
Like faith is complete by works the body is completed by the spirit. Like faith is made alive by works so is the body made alive by spirit
Analogy or rather example
“And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.”
Genesis 2:7 KJV
until the spirit of life came the body was nothing but formed dust and would have remained dust but when the spirit came into the body man became a living soul
Like faith is complete by works the body is completed by the spirit. Like faith is made alive by works so is the body made alive by spirit
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Well to put it simply it is a matter of those who are christian by title only. I am sure you have seen plenty of it these days those who go to church whosay they are Christians but show anything but they are judgmental they live in the ways of the world they lack that fire and passion for God.
Works are the fruit of the spirit they are the produce of a saved believer we don't even have to try to do works it just comes naturally as if by instinct
There many who claim to have faith but are speakers not doers, there are many who believe they are saved but lack any kind of love or anything by the spirit. Anyone can have faith and claim to be saved
Works are the fruit of the spirit they are the produce of a saved believer we don't even have to try to do works it just comes naturally as if by instinct
There many who claim to have faith but are speakers not doers, there are many who believe they are saved but lack any kind of love or anything by the spirit. Anyone can have faith and claim to be saved
The thief had faith - that is clear.
The thief gave a verbal testimony - that is works - that is clear.
But he was not saved by his works, but by his faith: but like all faith that saves his faith was not a "faith alone," for such a faith is dead.
The question of whether "believing" is a work is a question only asked by those who insist that works must be totally separated from faith. For myself, I have no problem talking about and promoting works: I love good works because it is part of living a victorious life above sin. But the works do not bring salvation: we are saved by God's grace through faith.
So, is "believing" a work? Dumb question that doesn't matter!! (my opinion!) Believing and works are so intertwined that you cannot have one without the other and both are a clear part of the picture of salvation.
The thief gave a verbal testimony - that is works - that is clear.
But he was not saved by his works, but by his faith: but like all faith that saves his faith was not a "faith alone," for such a faith is dead.
The question of whether "believing" is a work is a question only asked by those who insist that works must be totally separated from faith. For myself, I have no problem talking about and promoting works: I love good works because it is part of living a victorious life above sin. But the works do not bring salvation: we are saved by God's grace through faith.
So, is "believing" a work? Dumb question that doesn't matter!! (my opinion!) Believing and works are so intertwined that you cannot have one without the other and both are a clear part of the picture of salvation.
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Precious friend, so glad you brought this out! A better title could be:
"Works Within The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation"?:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in
ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great
a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) = The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
(1) Past Tense = "God delivered us from so great a death":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD} Results:
All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the Death PENALTY of sin!}
Justification = "God delivered us from so great a death"
{PAST Tense}, First, And, THEN:
(2) PRESENT tense = "God DOTH Deliver":
The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL Payment For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:
We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification = "God DOTH Deliver" {present tense}, as we should:
(2a) "Present your body a living sacrifice" To The LORD
(Romans 12:1-2 KJB!):
(2b) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
(2c) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)
Eternal Results: reward {or loss, as NOT all WILL do "good works" Correct?}
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15 KJB!), ruling and reigning {or not} With CHRIST, Which
Will FINALLY Be At The Judgment Day:
(3) Future Tense = "God Will Yet Deliver":
CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All {faithful AND UNfaithful} "members"
Of HIS Body!! {This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
"God Will Yet Deliver" {Future Tense} - Amen?
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Helpful, Precious friend?
"Works Within The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation"?:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in
ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great
a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) = The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
(1) Past Tense = "God delivered us from so great a death":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD} Results:
All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the Death PENALTY of sin!}
Justification = "God delivered us from so great a death"
{PAST Tense}, First, And, THEN:
(2) PRESENT tense = "God DOTH Deliver":
The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL Payment For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:
We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification = "God DOTH Deliver" {present tense}, as we should:
(2a) "Present your body a living sacrifice" To The LORD
(Romans 12:1-2 KJB!):
(2b) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
(2c) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)
Eternal Results: reward {or loss, as NOT all WILL do "good works" Correct?}
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15 KJB!), ruling and reigning {or not} With CHRIST, Which
Will FINALLY Be At The Judgment Day:
(3) Future Tense = "God Will Yet Deliver":
CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All {faithful AND UNfaithful} "members"
Of HIS Body!! {This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
"God Will Yet Deliver" {Future Tense} - Amen?
-----------------------------
Helpful, Precious friend?
I believe scripture tells us that it does have something to do with eternal security.
Jesus said that it isn't those who say Lord, Lord that enters the kingdom but ones who do the will of the Father.
It is like this: you can believe with faith that Christ can save you, but not believe what he says about murder or judging others. Just because you believe in one thing he tells us does not mean you have complete faith in the Lord.
Jesus said that it isn't those who say Lord, Lord that enters the kingdom but ones who do the will of the Father.
It is like this: you can believe with faith that Christ can save you, but not believe what he says about murder or judging others. Just because you believe in one thing he tells us does not mean you have complete faith in the Lord.
Never said anything different.
Yes works will follow, that's the result of faith.
If one does not show works then one has to ask the question why?
It not a cut and cold case.
Even Jesus said we will produce works at varying levels.
Yet before writing people off we need to come alongside in love and seek why.
The first verse in John
James 2:1
Beware of Personal Favoritism
1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.
He is addressing the very people who he calls brethren, which could also be translated as brothers.
I have posted on this thread and I asked you if you read it and yet you quoted just one sentence. I am not sure you read it fully.
But anyway that post was along the lines of
"Works do not save us, faith saves us"
I quoted
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
See I believe that.
Yet you intimated I did not.
Yes works will follow, that's the result of faith.
If one does not show works then one has to ask the question why?
It not a cut and cold case.
Even Jesus said we will produce works at varying levels.
Yet before writing people off we need to come alongside in love and seek why.
The first verse in John
James 2:1
Beware of Personal Favoritism
1 My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.
He is addressing the very people who he calls brethren, which could also be translated as brothers.
I have posted on this thread and I asked you if you read it and yet you quoted just one sentence. I am not sure you read it fully.
But anyway that post was along the lines of
"Works do not save us, faith saves us"
I quoted
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
See I believe that.
Yet you intimated I did not.
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