Atheism is rooted in wicked sinful people suppressing God because of their wickedness

[rainacorn]

You seem to think that Atheists are incapable of self control and basic human goodness and common sense, well were not :\ Im sure you'd prefer if we were all violent moronic animals Both my parents are Atheists and have never allowed me to curse people out and break things etc... So Im failing to see the point you were trying to make ?

Really? I didn't think it was all that confusing. Also, it looks like you totally got it.

Loving parents don't allow their children to curse people out and break things. Bad parents do.

Loving parents punish bad behavior and reward good behavior so we will grow up to be good people. Bad parents turn a blind eye.

If we know that's what loving parents do and we know that REAL LOVE like that of a parent to a child comes with punishments as well as rewards, then why would anyone really claim God isn't loving because there are punishments?

If the question isn't that there are punishments, but rather the severity of the punishment, it seems reasonable that the action being punished has greater consequences than what the child sees or can understand. They are, afterall, just children. They don't know what a parent knows.

 

[Forlorn-Hope]

Yeah I got that bit... I just didnt understand the bit about Atheists why would we consider allowing children to behave in a bad manner being loving

 

[IDFSteady]

I think it's a bit redundant to single out atheism, to be honest. If you look at it from a Biblical perspective, ALL men are, from birth, fallen, rebellious creatures. We're born into sinful bodies and we cannot be reconciled with God until we find Salvation in Christ. It doesn't really matter what path an individual choose if it's not the one leading to Christ, because they're equally insufficient. All iniquities are a blemish before God, all rebellious and self-serving ways are an affront to the Lord. The only difference between Atheists (or anybody, for that matter) and Christians is that the latter accept their fallen nature and seek redemption through Jesus. That's it. We are all wicked, we all need help.

I do not hate Atheists, I do not hate anybody. I hate sin and I believe that only Christ can fix it.

 

[rainacorn]

Yeah I got that bit... I just didnt understand the bit about Atheists why would we consider allowing children to behave in a bad manner being loving

Because atheists make ignorant statements about how God isn't real or Hell isn't real because God is supposed to be loving and a loving God would never punish.

It's just a 'special' way of thinking that really isn't as logical as atheists try to pretend it is.

 

[Forlorn-Hope]

I dont think there point is God wouldnt punish. I think they believe enternal torture is overkill. But thats just my interpetation of it.

 

[rainacorn]

I dont think there point is God wouldnt punish. I think they believe enternal torture is overkill. But thats just my interpetation of it.

Right, but how can you think the punishment is overkill if you don't understand the 'crime'?

 

[Forlorn-Hope]

Ahhh but they believe they do. And all human beliefs are based on the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Some refuse to acknowledge any other belief and some require evidence be put in front them, at which point the evidence must be able to convince them that their belief is wrong.

 

[rainacorn]

Ahhh but they believe they do. And all human beliefs are based on the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Some refuse to acknowledge any other belief and some require evidence be put in front them, at which point the evidence must be able to convince them that their belief is wrong.

I know they believe they do, but they don't. The crime and the punishment exist in a world they don't believe they are a part of. They are incapable of understanding.

There is no amount of evidence anyone here can provide that will convince an atheist they are wrong. It's absurd to even ask for it, however the atheist cannot understand why that is absurd... so they keep asking.

 

[Forlorn-Hope]

There are many very strong atheists I know who are now christian, so you cant say that you cant convince them otherwise.

 

[rainacorn]

There are many very strong atheists I know who are now christian, so you cant say that you cant convince them otherwise.

That's God's work. Not man's.

 

[Forlorn-Hope]

So you dont witness to people ?

 

[rainacorn]

So you dont witness to people ?

Of course I do. But again, that is God's work, not mine. All I can do is throw seeds at people. If the ground isn't fertile, it will go nowhere. If God doesn't water it and provide sonshine, it will go nowhere.

Christians do engage in arguments and debates and there are quite a few that are rather skilled at apologetics. However, that can easily become an exercise of the ego, not the holy spirit. God does ALL the heavy lifting. He makes the ground fertile and He makes the seeds take root and eventually bloom.

He uses us to do His will and can put the right words in our mouths, but it's all His power...not ours.

 

[AnandaHya]

Ahhh but they believe they do. And all human beliefs are based on the belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong. Some refuse to acknowledge any other belief and some require evidence be put in front them, at which point the evidence must be able to convince them that their belief is wrong.

Ah Forlorn you are right all human based beliefs are flawed that is why we try and base our beliefs and thoughts upon God and not men or our own understanding of the world. We try and base it upon the truth that God created since time unremembered.

In truth it is not us or our words that save but the power of God to touch and transform lives. God has asked us to plant seeds, and another will come an water that seed and eventually that plant will grow and bear seeds in the life of all who believe. that is the gift of the Holy Spirit. We do not know how it all works but even you harvest the fruits of God when someone shows you kindness, love and decency. again I say God plants these seeds in the hearts of all of His creation some just chose to smother it underneath greed and sin.

If you are of God you would hear and understand the message of Jesus and the sacrifice on the Cross for the remission of the sins of the world. unless you smother the seeds planted in the heart and deny your Creator and your own sinful nature and need for a Savior.

 

[AnandaHya]

Acts 17: 24- 30
"God that made the world and all thigns therein, seeing the he is LORD of Heaven and Earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither not is worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life and breath, and all things. ANd hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation; that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after Him and find Him, though He be not far from every one of us.
"And the times of this ignorance GOd winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent. Because He hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by the man he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."


Translation: in times past God allowed people to search for Him through other means, now God wants everyone to listen to the testimony of Jesus and walk in His righteousness because this is the standard He expects the world to live by: salvation through faith

Romans 10:8-10
New King James Version (NKJV)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[See_KING_Truth]

if you are an atheist (lost sinner) who ever resists the Holy Spirit, you don't even BELIEVE you're doing something wrong.

Right, however, my comment was directed toward a christian who made claims that still_waters was breaking the second commandment.

 

[Avinu]

I heard a brother in Messiah say once, ( he was a hardcore atheist at one time) He said, It takes more faith to be an atheist and not believe in God, than it does to have faith in the existance of God. Curious

 

[phil36]

The truth of the matter is that 1_still is right. Men supress the truth in their hearts going after their own evil intentions.

every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. (Genesis 8), God said this before the flood and after it! and we don't get any better, becuase we actually supress the truth.

To be an athiest takes great faith!!!

 

[ItinerantLurker]

you don't get it.

it's not OUR HIGH HORSE we trust in: it's JESUS CHRIST.

Ahhh, I see. So it's all right to judge because it's for JESUS. You must have one of them new fangled bibles that reads,

"Therefore, anyone of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. . .unless you're judging for JESUS."​

Key:
* = actual verse
* = stuff zone made up

Obviously, then, the only way to make atheists see the error of their ways is to constantly berate them. Please do carry on with what is sure to be an evangelistic explosion of conversion.
[/sarcasm]

Believe it or not, you can actually tell atheists that you disagree with them without constantly harping on about their wickedness. Oddly enough it seems as though people are more often willing to listen to what you have to say if you're not a complete tool about it.



Lurker

 

[1still_waters]

Ahhh, I see. So it's all right to judge because it's for JESUS. You must have one of them new fangled bibles that reads,

"Therefore, anyone of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things. . .unless you're judging for JESUS."​

Key:
* = actual verse
* = stuff zone made up

Obviously, then, the only way to make atheists see the error of their ways is to constantly berate them. Please do carry on with what is sure to be an evangelistic explosion of conversion.
[/sarcasm]

Believe it or not, you can actually tell atheists that you disagree with them without constantly harping on about their wickedness. Oddly enough it seems as though people are more often to listen to what you have to say if you're not a complete tool about it.



Lurker

Romans 1


18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. 29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

 

[ItinerantLurker]

Romans 1

I can do that too you know (with accurate citation to boot!).

Romans 2:1; 14-16

"Therefore, anyone of you who judges is without excuse. For when you judge another, you condemn yourself, since you, the judge, do the same things."

"So, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, instinctively do what the law demands, they are a law to themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences testify in support of this, and their competing thoughts either accuse or excuse them on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus."
​

Lurker