Do not let your hearts be troubled.

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justbyfaith

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#61
Please repost your thoughts on this Bible Study forum: How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
I'll be glad to re-post my thoughts in that Bible Study forum if you will post a link to that forum.

But, why not answer the question here?
 

Evmur

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#62
Just a question.

It seems to me that 1 Thessalonians 5:9 tells us that God has not appointed us to wrath, as believers in Christ.

And Zephaniah 1:14-15 and Luke 21:23 appear to be saying that the time of Great Tribulation is a time of God's wrath.

How, then, are we going to go through the Great Tribulation, as believers in Christ?

1Th 5:9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Zep 1:14, The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15, That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,


Luk 21:23, But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
But Luke 21. 27. says
and then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. So when you see these things begin to take place look up and raise your heads for your redemption draweth nigh.

Mark 13. 24.
But in those days after that tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light and the stars stars will be falling from the sky. And the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory, then He will send out the angels to gather the elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Matt.24. 29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days etc .... and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds etc.

The bible has not made a mistake, the mistake is in confusing the tribulation with God's wrath.
 

justbyfaith

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#63
How did this become another pre-trib thread?

Non-pre-tribbers, please ignore the pre-tribbers.
Is that your only option in order to keep a non-pre-trib pov?

Why not answer the argument in a concise manner?

Why not refute the argument biblically?

Is it not because there is no biblical refutation for the argument that your exhortation is to ignore the pre-tribbers?
 

justbyfaith

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#64
But Luke 21. 27. says
and then they shall see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. So when you see these things begin to take place look up and raise your heads for your redemption draweth nigh.

Mark 13. 24.
But in those days after that tribulation the sun will be darkened and the moon will not give her light and the stars stars will be falling from the sky. And the powers in the heavens will be shaken.

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory, then He will send out the angels to gather the elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven.

Matt.24. 29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days etc .... and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds etc.

The bible has not made a mistake, the mistake is in confusing the tribulation with God's wrath.
1Th 5:9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Zep 1:14, The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15, That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,


Luk 21:23, But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Is not the day of the LORD the great tribulation period? That day is a day of wrath; but God has not appointed us to wrath.
 

Evmur

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#65
1Th 5:9, For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Zep 1:14, The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
Zep 1:15, That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,


Luk 21:23, But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Is not the day of the LORD the great tribulation period? That day is a day of wrath; but God has not appointed us to wrath.
The Great Trib and God's Wrath are two things different.

Tribulation comes from the world.
 

justbyfaith

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#66
It does matter to Christ for this is what all who cling to pre-trib will experience as found in His warnings:

At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is!’ do not believe it.
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance.

So if they tell you, ‘There He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

the teaching of pre-trib is a false Christ and will lead to a great fall to those who place their trust in it.

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’
At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. Matt 24

There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” Luke 21
Of course, the pre-tribulation rapture does not teach that Christ will be on the earth during the great tribulation period. It teaches that we will be caught up in the clouds to meet Him in the air prior to the GT.

Therefore, with the true Christ, in the time of the GT, no one will be saying, "Lo here!" or, "Lo there!"

We are going to be snatched out of here as the Lord comes as a thief to steal us away from satan's plans to bring condemnation on the whole world through the mark, number, and name of the beast.
 

justbyfaith

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#67
The Great Trib and God's Wrath are two things different.

Tribulation comes from the world.
So, the Great Trib is not "the day of the LORD"?

What would you identify in scripture as being the day of the LORD, then?
 
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#68
I'll be glad to re-post my thoughts in that Bible Study forum if you will post a link to that forum.

But, why not answer the question here?
This is not my idea.
Forum rules we are to abide by is to follow the Discussion of the Thread from it's origin/beginning.
This is done so as not to divert from the original topic.
 

justbyfaith

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#69
This is not my idea.
Forum rules we are to abide by is to follow the Discussion of the Thread from it's origin/beginning.
This is done so as not to divert from the original topic.
I think that the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is right in line with the topic of this thread, "Let not your hearts be troubled."

You can answer the question here.
 
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#70
I think that the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is right in line with the topic of this thread, "Let not your hearts be troubled."

You can answer the question here.
I agree with you on that.
I also respect the request from the Brother who started this thread.

Give me a moment and let me start a new thread which we can share scripture together and see what our Father has to say to us - amen.
 

Evmur

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#72
So, the Great Trib is not "the day of the LORD"?

What would you identify in scripture as being the day of the LORD, then?
The day of the Lord begins as soon as the church is removed from the scene.

What happens at the gathering of the church PROVES pretrib doctrine to be wrong. For the returning Lord Jesus destroys antichrist by His appearing and by the breath of His mouth.

So at the appearing of Christ antichrist comes to his end ... it is not his beginning as pretribbers usually claim. All his persecution comes to an end. Along with antichrist's destruction comes the destruction of the armies which came up to Jerusalem with him and all who have believed in him and received his mark.

The three synoptic gospel say Christ's coming in the clouds happen AFTER the tribulation of those days.
 

justbyfaith

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#73
So, do you consider that what happens in Revelation 9:1-11 is not the wrath of the LORD?

Because it appears to happen before the Antichrist begins to have his reign.
 

justbyfaith

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#75
The day of the Lord begins as soon as the church is removed from the scene..
So you take more of a pre-wrath/mid-trib view rather than a post-trib rapture view, is that correct?
 

Evmur

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#76
So, do you consider that what happens in Revelation 9:1-11 is not the wrath of the LORD?

Because it appears to happen before the Antichrist begins to have his reign.
Here is what I believe

It is always best to go by the plain and open scriptures first. Everything is there all in the correct sequence of events. Once we have fully grasped the open scriptures then we can see how Revelations fits into them.

I have yet to meet 2 christians who agree on anything in Revelations.

It is the most miss understood book in the bible.

The prophecy itself did not originally have a title, that title was given later. If you take the title of the book as the first line of the prophecy something will click into place in your understanding.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ. THAT'S what it is all about, the revelation is His coming again, when He is revealed from Heaven. .... verse 7. Behold He is coming in the clouds and every eye will see Him and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of Him, even so amen.

When John says in verse 19. "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" it was not Sunday as commentators quaintly suppose. John was taken in the Spirit to witness the Lord's day or the day of the Lord. That is what 98 % of the book is all about. after the first few chapters the church is not mentioned on earth again.

No wonder christians struggle to understand it, it's not for the church but the Jews who will by then be converted.
 

Evmur

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#77
So you take more of a pre-wrath/mid-trib view rather than a post-trib rapture view, is that correct?
Yes I do but those 3 1/2 years will be horrendous. The church is not ready for it. Instead they are being told they will be raptured out of it.
 

Nehemiah6

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#79
When John says in verse 19. "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day" it was not Sunday as commentators quaintly suppose.
There is nothing quaint about this interpretation at all. "The Lord's Day" belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ as a special day of the week. It is the first day of the week and was the day of Christian worship since apostolic times. John was worshipping on the Lord's day, thus he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day".

On the other hand "the day of the LORD" is a time a divine wrath and judgment and corresponds to the future Great Tribulation. So when Christian began calling the Lord's Day the Christian sabbath, it was perfectly in keeping with "the Lord's Supper" at "the Lord's table". When "Sunday" is added to the mix rather than "the first day of the week" then we have all kinds of issues because it happens to be the day of the sun.
 

Evmur

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#80
There is nothing quaint about this interpretation at all. "The Lord's Day" belongs to the Lord Jesus Christ as a special day of the week. It is the first day of the week and was the day of Christian worship since apostolic times. John was worshipping on the Lord's day, thus he was "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day".

On the other hand "the day of the LORD" is a time a divine wrath and judgment and corresponds to the future Great Tribulation. So when Christian began calling the Lord's Day the Christian sabbath, it was perfectly in keeping with "the Lord's Supper" at "the Lord's table". When "Sunday" is added to the mix rather than "the first day of the week" then we have all kinds of issues because it happens to be the day of the sun.
Roman Catholic nonsense