The Falling Away - pre-trib rapture or ???

[DavidTree]

Yep he did because of their sin/

Not because they were in tribulation

You have not shown me one thing they suffered for back then.

Tribulation is used by God to turn people towards himself
Noah building the ark was not tribulation to the people

Noah lived during great tribulation and he was KEPT by God through it and Noah escaped the coming wrath that came AFTER Noah completed the Ark.
SIN is tribulation and sinful people are the ones who created it by satan filling their hearts with his evil desires.
SIN builds and gets worse and worse until it consumes those in it.
SIN that was in Noah's days brought the Flood and Death.
SIN that is in our day is also building for His Coming - the wrath of the Lamb
Noah was building the Ark - God's Salvation
Christ is the Ark for us who believe = we will not experience God's wrath.

Just as our Lord says in Matthew 24 =
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think anywhere it is explicitly stated the great tribulation is God's wrath. If there's a verse saying so then I'd love to see it. Over my past several posts I've tried to show how I believe the GT being God's wrath is theologically unsound.

I might add Revelation 12:12 pointing to the GT being the devil's wrath:

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

And I showed numerous times where God used armies of the gentiles to pour his wrath on the southern kingdom of Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel

If we read the OT. God all over the place uses people to carry out his wrath

To say the great tribulation is not Gods wrath just because Satan is doing something or people or armies are doing it. Well thus just ignores the example we have in the OT of how God pours his wrath out on people.

He used the earth to create the flood. That's the way God works

If you goung to use things like this to try to disprove pre tribulational rapture. You will fail and fail miserably.

I am not a proponent of the pre trib rapture I just love to come against people who try to say there is no proof of a pre trib rapture because their arguments are far to easy to refute.

Now if you want to discuss why you believe in Amill, or mid trib or post trib.

I will be happy to do that.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Noah lived during great tribulation and he was KEPT by God through it and Noah escaped the coming wrath that came AFTER Noah completed the Ark.
SIN is tribulation and sinful people are the ones who created it by satan filling their hearts with his evil desires.
SIN builds and gets worse and worse until it consumes those in it.
SIN that was in Noah's days brought the Flood and Death.
SIN that is in our day is also building for His Coming - the wrath of the Lamb
Noah was building the Ark - God's Salvation
Christ is the Ark for us who believe = we will not experience God's wrath.

Just as our Lord says in Matthew 24 =
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark. And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away. So will it be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left.

Noah was SAVED OUT OF THE GREAT FLOOD

people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage

This is not tribulation my friend, This is a big party!

The point is not that they were suffering tribulation. The point is was they were oblivious to what was about to happen to them

Again, you need to find another argument, This line of reasoning will not work. With me or any person that may beleve or think pre trib may be true

 

[stilllearning]

I don't think anywhere it is explicitly stated the great tribulation is God's wrath. If there's a verse saying so then I'd love to see it. Over my past several posts I've tried to show how I believe the GT being God's wrath is theologically unsound.

I might add Revelation 12:12 pointing to the GT being the devil's wrath:

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I like the question. Paul does bro. Don't wanna quote the whole thing but read Romans chapter 1 to get a picture and in Romans 2 he wraps up by pointing out how it all works in conjunction together. Romans 2:4-11 says, Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.

 

[DavidTree]

And I showed numerous times where God used armies of the gentiles to pour his wrath on the southern kingdom of Judah and the northern kingdom of Israel

If we read the OT. God all over the place uses people to carry out his wrath

To say the great tribulation is not Gods wrath just because Satan is doing something or people or armies are doing it. Well thus just ignores the example we have in the OT of how God pours his wrath out on people.

He used the earth to create the flood. That's the way God works

If you goung to use things like this to try to disprove pre tribulational rapture. You will fail and fail miserably.

I am not a proponent of the pre trib rapture I just love to come against people who try to say there is no proof of a pre trib rapture because their arguments are far to easy to refute.

Now if you want to discuss why you believe in Amill, or mid trib or post trib.

I will be happy to do that.

But you are missing out on what you are saying -

Noah was SAVED OUT OF THE GREAT FLOOD

people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage

This is not tribulation my friend, This is a big party!

The point is not that they were suffering tribulation. The point is was they were oblivious to what was about to happen to them

Again, you need to find another argument, This line of reasoning will not work. With me or any person that may beleve or think pre trib may be true

Who is having the big party while in tribulation - now think because it is happening now upon the world .

And you missed the whole point - the world will not be ready for His Coming - His Coming is wrath upon the world.
And they were oblivious, until the flood came and swept them all away.

Right now the world is in Tribulation and it will get worse very soon as "the man of sin" and his Mark is coming.

The world will rejoice in this, just as they are now doing.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

1 Thessalonians 5:9 says that Christians are not appointed to God's wrath.

9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

In light of the scriptures, this leaves you with some options to consider:

1Th5:9... addressed specifically to "the Church which is His body" (ALL those who have come to faith "in this present age [singular]")





... and this is in the CONTEXT of where both vv.6 and 10 are using the SAME GRK WORDS ("watch" and "sleep" [...note, a DISTINCT "sleep" word from the one used in chpt 4:13,14,15])... so same "US / WE" in verse 10 as is in v.9 ^ .


... and in the same CONTEXT where vv.1-3 is saying how "the DOTL" will "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... the SAME THING which Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse which is what "kicks off" a TIME PERIOD (IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the moment of His Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 refers to [parallel Rev19], NO... MUCH will transpire BETWEEN those two points in time... i.e. MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"






[note to the readers: "RAPTURE" [/SNATCH - G726] pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... it does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints;
Eph 1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence); And 2Th2:13's word "chosen [G138 - heilato / haireo]" is a DISTINCT word from the usual Grk word for "chose" used elsewhere [Jn15:16's "G1586 chose," for example]; and the two Thessalonians epistles is covering the Subject of "an eschatological salvation"... so the CONTEXT is important to note also]

 

[ewq1938]

It is not.

LOL what?? How does that answer my questions?

I asked: If Lot is an example of living saints being pre-trib raptured then who in Sodom would be tribulation saints? You answered, "It is not." That isn't an answer.


I asked: Also, does God rain down fire from heaven to the Earth during the great tribulation? You answered, "It is not." That isn't an answer.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul is going to great pains to explain there is no rapture in The Bible. Gods plans do not include a rapture. Because this is something man has added into The Bible. Ezekiel 18 in kjv will explain.

Paul used the word rapture in his teachings so claiming he didn't teach a rapture is just as absurd as people thinking Apostasy is something good.

 

[stilllearning]

I don't think anywhere it is explicitly stated the great tribulation is God's wrath. If there's a verse saying so then I'd love to see it. Over my past several posts I've tried to show how I believe the GT being God's wrath is theologically unsound.

I might add Revelation 12:12 pointing to the GT being the devil's wrath:

12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

We have to define tribulation I believe at this point. So we can define the tribulation and the great tribulation. The tribulation is a 7 year period per Daniels 70 weeks and the one week left also known as the time of Jacobs trouble.

The tribulation is broke down into two periods of 3 and a half years each. The first being the Wrath of the Lamb and the second being the wrath of God or the Father. It is great because it is the Father as Christ said my Father is greater than I am.

Rev 6 the opening of the seals, seal one is the wrath of the Lamb the kings and people of this earth notice it come seal 6. However, from the start it is wrath and is also tribulation.

Rev is so key to understanding bible prophecy and placing events in there chronological order. Rev is chronological and even says so when John is told to write what he has seen what is and what will be hereafter this is chronological and what Rev does for us really allows us to tie all prophecy together and then lay them down upon the time line rev is to see when they happen and how the sequence plays out.

In 2nd Thess when it talks about the man of sin being reveled this is Rev 6:1. A big deal is made in Rev 5 how only Christ the Lamb of God is worthy.

This is done so scripture might be fulfilled. Which Christ even said that the Psalms would be fulfilled. The opening of the seals the wrath of the Lamb fulfills the Psalms.

Psalms 2 says,
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

His wrath is kindled but a little 3 and a half years.

Psalms 110 says,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

This is just what the seals are the striking through and the cleansing of the earth of the wicked.

Ezekiel 14:21 says, For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

Seals 2-4 are just this they are the 4 sore judgments. In verse 19 of Ezekiel 14 God lets us know this is wrath. It reads, Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:

 

[DavidTree]

1Th5:9... addressed specifically to "the Church which is His body" (ALL those who have come to faith "in this present age [singular]")





... and this is in the CONTEXT of where both vv.6 and 10 are using the SAME GRK WORDS ("watch" and "sleep" [...note, a DISTINCT "sleep" word from the one used in chpt 4:13,14,15])... so same "US / WE" in verse 10 as is in v.9 ^ .


... and in the same CONTEXT where vv.1-3 is saying how "the DOTL" will "ARRIVE" exactly like the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that COMES UPON a woman... the SAME THING which Jesus spoke of in His Olivet Discourse which is what "kicks off" a TIME PERIOD (IOW, it does not ARRIVE at the moment of His Second Coming to the earth Matt24:29-31 refers to [parallel Rev19], NO... MUCH will transpire BETWEEN those two points in time... i.e. MANY MORE "birth PANGS [PLURAL]" must follow on from that INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]"






[note to the readers: "RAPTURE" [/SNATCH - G726] pertains SOLELY TO "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"... it does NOT pertain to all other saints of all OTHER time periods: not to OT saints, not to Trib saints, not to MK saints;
Eph 1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence); And 2Th2:13's word "chosen [G138 - heilato / haireo]" is a DISTINCT word from the usual Grk word for "chose" used elsewhere [Jn15:16's "G1586 chose," for example]; and the two Thessalonians epistles is covering the Subject of "an eschatological salvation"... so the CONTEXT is important to note also]

There is only ONE Second Coming of Christ for His Church at HIS Coming just as HE said it to His Bride in Matthew 24.

Notice how the LORD used Noah days as an example - Noah lived during the great tribulation of his time.

Great Tribulation is the build-up and manifestation of SIN in men's hearts to the point where God must Judge.

We are in this now and it will only get worse as the man of sin and his mark is just around the corner.

This is the point of no return for the world, His Church will be there just as Noah was there.
There is only One Gospel and One Bride who is made up of His Saints - both the dead in Christ and those who will remain unto His Coming.

There is no other Gospel Message then that which Christ spoke, the Apostles confirmed and Revelation confirms.
There is no secret rapture BEFORE His Coming.
His Second Coming occurs Once, not twice.
It is His Coming for His Church and it is the Day of the Lord for the wicked -
Any other gospel message is from the wicked one.
One Coming with Two Outcomes = as it was in His First Coming so will it be in His Second Coming

“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18

 

[ewq1938]

God calls the GREAT tribulation is wrath.

To reading. God DOES NOT call great tribulation his wrath. This is a false claim which is why this person does not quote scripture to support this. The great trib is satan's wrath and we are told that:

Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Rev 12:13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Rev 12:15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

[stilllearning]

LOL what?? How does that answer my questions?

I asked: If Lot is an example of living saints being pre-trib raptured then who in Sodom would be tribulation saints? You answered, "It is not." That isn't an answer.


I asked: Also, does God rain down fire from heaven to the Earth during the great tribulation? You answered, "It is not." That isn't an answer.

I believe I explained how it was defining the nature of God which can be backed by further scriptures. I was answering it is not, to your highlighted part. As the way I read the way you framed or asked the question did not make sense to me. Which does not mean there was anything wrong with the way it was asked just the way I read it. So that was what my It is not, was about. My answer though was how God was using scripture early one in this case Lot also to include Noah how from early on he was defining his nature and how he acts with the righteous when it comes to his wrath.

 

[DavidTree]

We have to define tribulation I believe at this point. So we can define the tribulation and the great tribulation. The tribulation is a 7 year period per Daniels 70 weeks and the one week left also known as the time of Jacobs trouble.

The tribulation is broke down into two periods of 3 and a half years each. The first being the Wrath of the Lamb and the second being the wrath of God or the Father. It is great because it is the Father as Christ said my Father is greater than I am.

Rev 6 the opening of the seals, seal one is the wrath of the Lamb the kings and people of this earth notice it come seal 6. However, from the start it is wrath and is also tribulation.

Rev is so key to understanding bible prophecy and placing events in there chronological order. Rev is chronological and even says so when John is told to write what he has seen what is and what will be hereafter this is chronological and what Rev does for us really allows us to tie all prophecy together and then lay them down upon the time line rev is to see when they happen and how the sequence plays out.

In 2nd Thess when it talks about the man of sin being reveled this is Rev 6:1. A big deal is made in Rev 5 how only Christ the Lamb of God is worthy.

This is done so scripture might be fulfilled. Which Christ even said that the Psalms would be fulfilled. The opening of the seals the wrath of the Lamb fulfills the Psalms.

Psalms 2 says,
1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

His wrath is kindled but a little 3 and a half years.

Psalms 110 says,
The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

2The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

3Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

4The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

5The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

6He shall judge among the heathen, he shall fill the places with the dead bodies; he shall wound the heads over many countries.

7He shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall he lift up the head.

This is just what the seals are the striking through and the cleansing of the earth of the wicked.

Ezekiel 14:21 says, For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my four sore judgments upon Jerusalem, the sword, and the famine, and the noisome beast, and the pestilence, to cut off from it man and beast?

Seals 2-4 are just this they are the 4 sore judgments. In verse 19 of Ezekiel 14 God lets us know this is wrath. It reads, Or if I send a pestilence into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:

You miss understand many things which is the result of believing in the error of pre-trib.

You need to believe what God says in Revelation and do not add or take away from it.
Rev ch6
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “
How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev ch7

 

[SaltwaterGirl]

Paul used the word rapture in his teachings so claiming he didn't teach a rapture is just as absurd as people thinking Apostasy is something good.

I don’t see the word “rapture“ anywhere. Where’s it at?

 

[stilllearning]

You miss understand many things which is the result of believing in the error of pre-trib.

You need to believe what God says in Revelation and do not add or take away from it.
Rev ch6
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “
How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.

Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Rev ch7

Seal 5 is the wrath of God or in this case the Lamb as well.

It reads, And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We already know from the gospels that Christ has proclaimed what they do to us they do to him. The ones martyred here bear testimony against those that did so. Not much different when Christ proclaims how the blood of Abel to Zacharias would fall upon the religious leaders.

They pay in full for the ones they have martyred after that it is completed and their cup of indignation is full.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

It is His Coming for His Church and it is the Day of the Lord for the wicked -

You're mistaken if you believe "the day of the Lord" is referring to a singular "MOMENT" or even merely "a singular 24-hr day". It's not.

 

[ewq1938]

I don’t see the word “rapture“ anywhere. Where’s it at?

Was the NT written in English?

 

[DavidTree]

Seal 5 is the wrath of God or in this case the Lamb as well.

It reads, And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

We already know from the gospels that Christ has proclaimed what they do to us they do to him. The ones martyred here bear testimony against those that did so. Not much different when Christ proclaims how the blood of Abel to Zacharias would fall upon the religious leaders.

They pay in full for the ones they have martyred after that it is completed and their cup of indignation is full.

The 5th Seal is not the wrath of the Lamb and you committed a serious sin which the Lord said for you not to do.

The 6th Seal is the wrath of the Lamb = 6:17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

 

[stilllearning]

You're mistaken if you believe "the day of the Lord" is referring to a singular "MOMENT" or even merely "a singular 24-hr day".

So agree there are singular moments when stuff is fulfilled but Peter is plain he lays out in scripture just how long the day of the Lord is and when it wraps up. 2 Peter3:10 says, But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

That is clearly after the 1000 year reign that this happens.

 

[ewq1938]

Seal 5 is the wrath of God or in this case the Lamb as well.

No, it clearly is not. They have to WAIT for wrath to happen so not found in that seal. The wrath is found described in 6th seal which is a description of second coming told from perspective of unsaved. That matches the wrath of God being first seen in action in Rev 11 at the 7th trump.