Our new relationship to the law.

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eternally-gratefull

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When God created the world, the world he created was not chaos but had law. Yet you say the one and only purpose was to point to sin, and that was not one purpose of the law but all other purposes are null and void, only one remains? That doesn't make sense. I see order not chaos in law obedience. I see it also as a vital part of faith in the Lord. I see it leading to being aware of the need for Christ. as you point out. I see law as many things, not just to be eliminated except for one purpose.

You say the Jews missed the point. The Jews believed it required blood for the forgiveness of sin, they just deny that Christ gave that blood. The entire sacrificial system they used until Christ was based on the forgiveness of sin, not on earning sin through obedience. If they believed in obedience for that, why would they kill their best and prized livestock? They did this based on faith in instructions from the Lord without any understanding of why as we are told as we know of Christ.
Mosaic law was not there when god created the world
he gave it to Israel to prove them under sin as a schoolmaster
your focus on the ministry of death is worrisome
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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My friend. ALot more than ten commands are written on my heart.

THE TEN COMMANDS ARE THE LAW OF DEATH

Moses said. Cursed is the one who does not bey every word.

All they can do is kill you. They can not make you alive or living
Now, of course I agree with you that we are not justified or born again through keeping the law.

However, as I have shown in holy scripture, we will be obedient to the Lord if we are genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit (through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross).

And what is obedience to the Lord, other than keeping His word?

And, is not His law, also His word to us as to what it means to be obedient?

The ten commandments are the law of death only in that if we seek to be justified by them, we are indeed under the curse (Galatians 3:10, 5:1-4).

However, if we know that we have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, we will in fact be blessed in what we do, if we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (James 1:22-25).

Cursed is the one who does not obey every word, this is true; however, it applies to those who are seeking to be justified by the law and not to those who know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Act 22:16, And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
So your going to attribute the work of God in baptism if the spirit to the work of some man who needs his sin washed too?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Now, of course I agree with you that we are not justified or born again through keeping the law.

However, as I have shown in holy scripture, we will be obedient to the Lord if we are genuinely born again of the Holy Spirit (through faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross).

And what is obedience to the Lord, other than keeping His word?

And, is not His law, also His word to us as to what it means to be obedient?

The ten commandments are the law of death only in that if we seek to be justified by them, we are indeed under the curse (Galatians 3:10, 5:1-4).

However, if we know that we have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ, we will in fact be blessed in what we do, if we look into the perfect law of liberty and continue in it (James 1:22-25).

Cursed is the one who does not obey every word, this is true; however, it applies to those who are seeking to be justified by the law and not to those who know that they have been justified through faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.
The law is death because NO ONE can keep them
you forget that point
obedience to god is
Not obedience to the law unless your perfect
as Jesus said. No one is good but God
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is a meaning of the word "change", as in "changing a diaper"...the baby is given a new diaper.
He did not change it. It passed away and God gave us a new and better covenant.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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That is a meaning of the word "change", as in "changing a diaper"...the baby is given a new diaper.
Change a babies diaper (we say nappy over here) and give it a new one that new nappy will have to be changed again.

We can't keep changing it, God as not changed it.
He gave us a new nappy, one that never needs changing because it's been washed in the blood of the lamb.

White as snow.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Hebrews 10:15-22
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Hold Fast Your Confession
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Mosaic law was not there when god created the world
he gave it to Israel to prove them under sin as a schoolmaster
your focus on the ministry of death is worrisome
Christ changed the Mosaic Law when Christ said "you have been told" and "but I tell you". All the earthly type commands of the Mosaic Law were made into commandments of the heart, adding love and taking away the fleshly part of the command.

God used these earthly fleshly commands as a schoolmaster, to lead them to the spirit of the law that they symbolized. They cut actual flesh to symbolize cutting flesh from their life to living for the spirit of the Lord. Christ spoke this directly to hearts through the holy spirit, cutting flesh would then only deny that they received the spirit to lead them as a schoolmaster would lead his children to worship and learn.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Christ changed the Mosaic Law when Christ said "you have been told" and "but I tell you". All the earthly type commands of the Mosaic Law were made into commandments of the heart, adding love and taking away the fleshly part of the command.

God used these earthly fleshly commands as a schoolmaster, to lead them to the spirit of the law that they symbolized. They cut actual flesh to symbolize cutting flesh from their life to living for the spirit of the Lord. Christ spoke this directly to hearts through the holy spirit, cutting flesh would then only deny that they received the spirit to lead them as a schoolmaster would lead his children to worship and learn.
I thought Jesus said "You have heard it said"

Per the beatitudes in Matt chapter 5
 

Blik

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Dec 6, 2016
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Change a babies diaper (we say nappy over here) and give it a new one that new nappy will have to be changed again.

We can't keep changing it, God as not changed it.
He gave us a new nappy, one that never needs changing because it's been washed in the blood of the lamb.

White as snow.

Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Hebrews 10:15-22
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
Hold Fast Your Confession
19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
The new nappy we receive from Christ is repentance. Christ said "the kingdom of heaven is near". We are to be citizens of this kingdom, not the kingdom of the world. We are to live geographically in a world kingdom as strangers and sojourners but be citizens of the heavenly kingdom. We cannot want sin in our lives and want to live in heaven. That means we now are to live in repentance while we are still in our bodies that reside in the earth. We are in a fleshly body that cannot perform with no sin, but we can live in a body that repents of sin.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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So your going to attribute the work of God in baptism if the spirit to the work of some man who needs his sin washed too?
It is an ordinance through which God operates through faith. It is not in the man doing the baptizing to bring salvation to the one baptized; but it has to do with "faith in the operation of God" (Colossians 2:12 (kjv)).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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The law is death because NO ONE can keep them
you forget that point
obedience to god is
Not obedience to the law unless your perfect
as Jesus said. No one is good but God
No one can keep the letter of the law (Galatians 6:13).

Keeping the spirit of the law (Romans 7:6) through the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:4) is a different story (1 John 3:5-9).
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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He did not change it. It passed away and God gave us a new and better covenant.
He changed it as a mother might change her baby's diapers. Here, I am saying what you are saying.

Therefore, I believe that we are here arguing over semantics.
 

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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The new nappy we receive from Christ is repentance. Christ said "the kingdom of heaven is near". We are to be citizens of this kingdom, not the kingdom of the world. We are to live geographically in a world kingdom as strangers and sojourners but be citizens of the heavenly kingdom. We cannot want sin in our lives and want to live in heaven. That means we now are to live in repentance while we are still in our bodies that reside in the earth. We are in a fleshly body that cannot perform with no sin, but we can live in a body that repents of sin.
No idea what and why you are saying concerning my post.

I just gave my thoughts and scripture.

Oh well
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
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Just looking at the OP

"Our new relationship to the law"

Should we focus on that or do we need to focus on

"Our new relationship with God thru Jesus death burial and resurrection?

If so that relationship is wanting to be like Jesus.

Look at what Jesus and did in the gospels.

Love God, love your neighbor, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, seek the marginalised, the poor, the hurting, the downtrodden and so on.
 

justbyfaith

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Sep 16, 2021
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The law has indeed been changed. We are no longer condemned for failing to keep a set of commandments;

While we will be condemned if we live according to a set of vices spoken of in holy scripture (Galatians 5:19-21) and do not live according to the virtues that are proclaimed as their opposites (Galatians 5:22-23).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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Just looking at the OP

"Our new relationship to the law"

Should we focus on that or do we need to focus on

"Our new relationship with God thru Jesus death burial and resurrection?

If so that relationship is wanting to be like Jesus.

Look at what Jesus and did in the gospels.

Love God, love your neighbor, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, seek the marginalised, the poor, the hurting, the downtrodden and so on.
Yes, the commandments that we have received in the New Testament do more explicitly detail what it means to walk in righteousness.

The laws in the Old Testament were written in such a manner that it takes the vail being lifted if they are going to lay claim on us as moral tenets. But they, in some way, shape, or form, do espouse the same moral tenets as does the New Testament. They are just not laid out as plainly in the Old Testament as they are in the New.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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No idea what and why you are saying concerning my post.

I just gave my thoughts and scripture.

Oh well
I thought your relating what Christ did to a new nappy was brilliant, but your said "Change a babies diaper (we say nappy over here) and give it a new one that new nappy will have to be changed again. It seemed to me that Christ told us to live in repentance so our nappies don't need to be changed again but the forgiveness of our sin is with us constantly.
 
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