Biblical Mary!

[DavidTree]

Ok. So Rev 12 talks about a woman...who gives birth to Jesus...but she's OBVIOUSLY not Mary. Gotcha. I think you're so caught up in your theories that you're dismissing what the text plainly says.

Theories are that which inserts Mary into Scripture where she is not mentioned nor belongs.

If you want to insert 'Mary' into Scripture there are some places where she fits right in:

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, " - Romans 3:23

Mary fits in here as well:
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all.
For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13“Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17And the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Mary also fits in here:

4Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

 

[surfer14]

Theories are that which inserts Mary into Scripture where she is not mentioned nor belongs.

If you want to insert 'Mary' into Scripture there are some places where she fits right in:

"for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, " - Romans 3:23

Mary fits in here as well:
What then? Are we better than they? Not at all.
For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.

10As it is written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13“Their throat is an open [d]tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14“Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15“Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17And the way of peace they have not known.”
18“There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become [e]guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Mary also fits in here:

4Coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected indeed by men, but chosen by God and precious, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture,
“Behold, I lay in Zion
A chief cornerstone, elect, precious,
And he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame.”
7Therefore, to you who believe, He is precious; but to those who are disobedient,

Well dude...I think you're a little caught up in your anti-Mary thing you seem to have going.

But I will say that is a nice fish on your avatar! Looks like a king salmon? I caught pretty nice king like that in Washington near the town of White Salmon. Temp was in the high forties or low fifties, sleeting, and the water was absolutely icy. I didn't have waders, nor did I have rain gear. Just a wool coat. But I kept fishing that river until I caught one. Managed a 22lb king after almost 8 hours of fishing. I generally do catch and release, but I kept that fish. I had a good chunk of it smoked, put it on dry ice and mailed it down to my then girlfriend, now wife. She loved it so much she figured it would be okay to marry me.

 

[arthurfleminger]

So many on this board seem to have animosity toward Mary, the mother of God, the mother of Jesus. Scripture tells us that Mary was 'filled with the Holy Spirit, when she said that all generations will call me blessed. And many do, but so many seem to despise Mary's role in Jesus' salvation. Keep in mind that when Mary claimed that all generations would call her blessed, she was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'. Well, the Holy Spirit wasn't wrong, neither was Scripture or Mary. Many have called her blessed throughout the last 2,000 years. And others have turned their backs on Mary, the Holy Spirit, and Scripture by denying her this blessedness.

Mary sings her hymn of praise to God, she says, “All generations will call me blessed.” God the Father honored Mary by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus. Our Lord Jesus honored Mary in all ways, as His mother. Jesus obeyed all the commandments, honor thy father and mother. And the Holy Spirit honored Mary by begetting Jesus unto the world. Mary and the Holy Spirit are inseparable. There is an unbreakable friendship between them. It is the Holy Spirit together with Mary that gives Jesus to the world.

So, if God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit honor Mary, so will I. And, her prophesy is true. Despite animosity from many, all generations have called her blessed for 2,000 years.

And, if you only harbor animosity toward Mary, you also harbor animosit toward the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

PS. If I would dishonor any of your mothers, I'd be dishonoring you. Same way with Jesus and His mother. What a moral insult would it be to dishonor Jesus' mother Mary.

 

[Magenta]

So many on this board seem to have animosity toward Mary, the mother of God, the mother of Jesus. Scripture tells us that Mary was 'filled with the Holy Spirit, when she said that all generations will call me blessed. And many do, but so many seem to despise Mary's role in Jesus' salvation. Keep in mind that when Mary claimed that all generations would call her blessed, she was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'. Well, the Holy Spirit wasn't wrong, neither was Scripture or Mary. Many have called her blessed throughout the last 2,000 years. And others have turned their backs on Mary, the Holy Spirit, and Scripture by denying her this blessedness.

Jesus said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because
of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:3-10

 

[DavidTree]

Well dude...I think you're a little caught up in your anti-Mary thing you seem to have going.

But I will say that is a nice fish on your avatar! Looks like a king salmon? I caught pretty nice king like that in Washington near the town of White Salmon. Temp was in the high forties or low fifties, sleeting, and the water was absolutely icy. I didn't have waders, nor did I have rain gear. Just a wool coat. But I kept fishing that river until I caught one. Managed a 22lb king after almost 8 hours of fishing. I generally do catch and release, but I kept that fish. I had a good chunk of it smoked, put it on dry ice and mailed it down to my then girlfriend, now wife. She loved it so much she figured it would be okay to marry me.

Nice post - thank you -
i am in NJ and caught the king throwing spoons in the Salmon River estuary, lake Ontario, Pulaski NY

This year i missed the big run by a week. i like to fish the estuary throwing spoons as the strike and fight are intense - they are hard to catch because they stop feeding but you can induce a strike.

The king in the picture about 28lbs - great fight - i have caught a few bigger but they mostly run in the 20's.

Raised 100% Catholic, schooling and everything. Prayed the Rosary beads with my mom all the time. Always knew something wasn't right but was not saved and just went with the flow.
After receiving the Real Salvation and reading the Word, i was set free and my eyes opened. That was when Reality set in concerning the Precious Gift of Salvation and how all religions fall short of the Glory and Freedom in Christ.
My mother, Mary, was devoted to Mary worship - not good - and i do not know if she eve made it IN through the Blood of Christ.

So, please forgive me if i seem hard or dogmatic - i am not fond of religion, no matter what shape, color or flavor it comes in.

If, i were near you i would of loved to get together and do some fishing and talking over some good coffee

Thank You again for your loving reply

 

[Dino246]

So many on this board seem to have animosity toward Mary, the mother of God, the mother of Jesus. Scripture tells us that Mary was 'filled with the Holy Spirit, when she said that all generations will call me blessed. And many do, but so many seem to despise Mary's role in Jesus' salvation. Keep in mind that when Mary claimed that all generations would call her blessed, she was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'. Well, the Holy Spirit wasn't wrong, neither was Scripture or Mary. Many have called her blessed throughout the last 2,000 years. And others have turned their backs on Mary, the Holy Spirit, and Scripture by denying her this blessedness.

Mary sings her hymn of praise to God, she says, “All generations will call me blessed.” God the Father honored Mary by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus. Our Lord Jesus honored Mary in all ways, as His mother. Jesus obeyed all the commandments, honor thy father and mother. And the Holy Spirit honored Mary by begetting Jesus unto the world. Mary and the Holy Spirit are inseparable. There is an unbreakable friendship between them. It is the Holy Spirit together with Mary that gives Jesus to the world.

So, if God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit honor Mary, so will I. And, her prophesy is true. Despite animosity from many, all generations have called her blessed for 2,000 years.

And, if you only harbor animosity toward Mary, you also harbor animosit toward the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

PS. If I would dishonor any of your mothers, I'd be dishonoring you. Same way with Jesus and His mother. What a moral insult would it be to dishonor Jesus' mother Mary.

Bluntly, you just don't get it.

We don't venerate Mary, because Scripture teaches us not to venerate mere humans. No amount of Scripture-twisting and fancy gibberish is going to convince Christians to believe Catholic errors about her. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "animosity" or "acrimony". Rather, and very simply, we worship Jesus; Mary is just another human who happened to play a unique role.

You also don't understand what the Scripture says about her, because you have believed the twisted interpretations. Mary was indeed highly blessed to be Jesus' mother, but that is the end of it! There is no need to consider her worthy of further blessing. She knew her place, and was delighted in it, but I am certain that she would be disgusted with the idolatry perpetrated in her name.

By the way, your "moral insult" is utter claptrap, and your statement, "Mary and the Holy Spirit are inseparable" is rank heresy.

 

[surfer14]

Nice post - thank you -
i am in NJ and caught the king throwing spoons in the Salmon River estuary, lake Ontario, Pulaski NY

This year i missed the big run by a week. i like to fish the estuary throwing spoons as the strike and fight are intense - they are hard to catch because they stop feeding but you can induce a strike.

The king in the picture about 28lbs - great fight - i have caught a few bigger but they mostly run in the 20's.

Raised 100% Catholic, schooling and everything. Prayed the Rosary beads with my mom all the time. Always knew something wasn't right but was not saved and just went with the flow.
After receiving the Real Salvation and reading the Word, i was set free and my eyes opened. That was when Reality set in concerning the Precious Gift of Salvation and how all religions fall short of the Glory and Freedom in Christ.
My mother, Mary, was devoted to Mary worship - not good - and i do not know if she eve made it IN through the Blood of Christ.

So, please forgive me if i seem hard or dogmatic - i am not fond of religion, no matter what shape, color or flavor it comes in.

If, i were near you i would of loved to get together and do some fishing and talking over some good coffee

Thank You again for your loving reply

Man, I'd fish with you anytime! I TOTALLY relate to liking to do it the hard way... just because it's more rewarding. The only job I've ever really wanted to do was to be a fishing guide. Instead I've made a career out of sitting at a computer screen all day. Not sure how I ever decided that was a good idea!

Mary? Heck I don't know. I'm just trying to call it how I see it. One thing that's interesting is how our experiences kind of shape us. Bad experience with X makes us want to reject everything about X. Ex-smokers are the biggest anti-smokers out there. Children of drunks lots of times are the biggest opponents of drinking. It's just the nature of life. You have no need to apologize for anything IMO.

To come full circle...I've had this career...for decades...doing a job that I don't really like...that I take no joy in...no pride in...and don't find it particularly rewarding. Why do I do it? Just to make money. That's it. So if anyone is guilty of idolatry, it's me. If praying the rosary is idolatry, then surely what I'm doing is 100 times worse.

 

[DavidTree]

Man, I'd fish with you anytime! I TOTALLY relate to liking to do it the hard way... just because it's more rewarding. The only job I've ever really wanted to do was to be a fishing guide. Instead I've made a career out of sitting at a computer screen all day. Not sure how I ever decided that was a good idea!

Mary? Heck I don't know. I'm just trying to call it how I see it. One thing that's interesting is how our experiences kind of shape us. Bad experience with X makes us want to reject everything about X. Ex-smokers are the biggest anti-smokers out there. Children of drunks lots of times are the biggest opponents of drinking. It's just the nature of life. You have no need to apologize for anything IMO.

To come full circle...I've had this career...for decades...doing a job that I don't really like...that I take no joy in...no pride in...and don't find it particularly rewarding. Why do I do it? Just to make money. That's it. So if anyone is guilty of idolatry, it's me. If praying the rosary is idolatry, then surely what I'm doing is 100 times worse.

Let's make it official - Fishing is like Rock n Roll = Christ is our ROCK and with Him we Roll = following the Shepherd wherever He goes.

If, by God's grace, i am able to get out your way, will look you up and we can do some heavy metal slinging - lol

Yeah, i understand what you are saying - when people are delivered from this or that they tend to speak strongly against that which bound them. But this is a good thing which God uses for testimony of His Goodness in their lives.
Now, going to extremes, worshipping Mary, is bad stuff for us who are in CHRIST - who alone is our Shepherd and Savior.

We have Catholic neighbors who we love and get along with - we do not bash with the Bible.

On this forum a little different as this is 'open house' for stating clear Scripture that refutes error.
Catholicism is filled with many errors that lead to hell - i know - i was there, in deep.
Are you a practicing Catholic?

 

[surfer14]

Hi David,

I am not a Catholic. But I anticipate I will be at some point. I grew up protestant. But now I go to a the most traditional, old school, church that I've ever found. I had totally given up on church for years. But my son, the most zealous Christian I know, convinced me to give this latin mass a try. I went in there and LOVED it. All women wearing hair coverings, everyone kneeling going in or out of church or their pews, no masks, tons of children, which is hopeful for the future. And I love the fact that they're probably the most politically right wing organization that I've ever been a part of (including the Army). There is a certain vibe that I found extremely refreshing also - I have since learned that what was so annoying me about society and about church (including novus ordo catholic church) has a name. The thing is called "modernism". Every single protestant church I've ever been to has been infected with it. Every novus ordo catholic church is infected with it. You go in there, and it's just like the modern society that's outside. The only place I've ever been to that is a break from moderism are some of these catholic latin mass churches.

So I've been going for to latin Catholic mass for about 1.5 years now. I think they're right about a lot of things. And when the pope came out with the edict restricting latin mass a little while ago the leader of our church wrote a letter back saying that we'll never stop the latin mass and that those who aren't willing to die for the mass are not worthy to attend the mass. That is something I want to be part of. That is inspiring. Count me in.

But ya dude...I'm in MT now. I would be happy to take you out in my raft for a float trip. Just you, me and Mary. LOL! Just kidding! Just kidding!

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Hi David,

I am not a Catholic. But I anticipate I will be at some point. I grew up protestant. But now I go to a the most traditional, old school, church that I've ever found. I had totally given up on church for years. But my son, the most zealous Christian I know, convinced me to give this latin mass a try. I went in there and LOVED it. All women wearing hair coverings, everyone kneeling going in or out of church or their pews, no masks, tons of children, which is hopeful for the future. And I love the fact that they're probably the most politically right wing organization that I've ever been a part of (including the Army). There is a certain vibe that I found extremely refreshing also - I have since learned that what was so annoying me about society and about church (including novus ordo catholic church) has a name. The thing is called "modernism". Every single protestant church I've ever been to has been infected with it. Every novus ordo catholic church is infected with it. You go in there, and it's just like the modern society that's outside. The only place I've ever been to that is a break from moderism are some of these catholic latin mass churches.

So I've been going for to latin Catholic mass for about 1.5 years now. I think they're right about a lot of things. And when the pope came out with the edict restricting latin mass a little while ago the leader of our church wrote a letter back saying that we'll never stop the latin mass and that those who aren't willing to die for the mass are not worthy to attend the mass. That is something I want to be part of. That is inspiring. Count me in.

But ya dude...I'm in MT now. I would be happy to take you out in my raft for a float trip. Just you, me and Mary. LOL! Just kidding! Just kidding!

I was saved in a Catholic cemetary. No Kidding, my friend & myself. Walking through it, seeing a life size depiction of the
crucifixion with women weeping at the foot of the cross. I had just reached the stage where I started reading The Bible myself.
I was interested & wanted to learn what was in it. I wanted to know God.

We walked by that statue, I looked at it and I just knew it was true, I knew he was real, (not the statue) I knew for sure.
I knew he had died for me. I told my friend who was with me & she knew it too. We held hands and were in tears.
Both of us grateful that Jesus was real and had really been nailed to the cross for our sake.

 

[DavidTree]

Hi David,

I am not a Catholic. But I anticipate I will be at some point. I grew up protestant. But now I go to a the most traditional, old school, church that I've ever found. I had totally given up on church for years. But my son, the most zealous Christian I know, convinced me to give this latin mass a try. I went in there and LOVED it. All women wearing hair coverings, everyone kneeling going in or out of church or their pews, no masks, tons of children, which is hopeful for the future. And I love the fact that they're probably the most politically right wing organization that I've ever been a part of (including the Army). There is a certain vibe that I found extremely refreshing also - I have since learned that what was so annoying me about society and about church (including novus ordo catholic church) has a name. The thing is called "modernism". Every single protestant church I've ever been to has been infected with it. Every novus ordo catholic church is infected with it. You go in there, and it's just like the modern society that's outside. The only place I've ever been to that is a break from moderism are some of these catholic latin mass churches.

So I've been going for to latin Catholic mass for about 1.5 years now. I think they're right about a lot of things. And when the pope came out with the edict restricting latin mass a little while ago the leader of our church wrote a letter back saying that we'll never stop the latin mass and that those who aren't willing to die for the mass are not worthy to attend the mass. That is something I want to be part of. That is inspiring. Count me in.

But ya dude...I'm in MT now. I would be happy to take you out in my raft for a float trip. Just you, me and Mary. LOL! Just kidding! Just kidding!

Is Mary your wife? because she has to stay home as two's company and three is a crowd - that's fishing Rulz 101

 

[DavidTree]

Hi David,

I am not a Catholic. But I anticipate I will be at some point. I grew up protestant. But now I go to a the most traditional, old school, church that I've ever found. I had totally given up on church for years. But my son, the most zealous Christian I know, convinced me to give this latin mass a try. I went in there and LOVED it. All women wearing hair coverings, everyone kneeling going in or out of church or their pews, no masks, tons of children, which is hopeful for the future. And I love the fact that they're probably the most politically right wing organization that I've ever been a part of (including the Army). There is a certain vibe that I found extremely refreshing also - I have since learned that what was so annoying me about society and about church (including novus ordo catholic church) has a name. The thing is called "modernism". Every single protestant church I've ever been to has been infected with it. Every novus ordo catholic church is infected with it. You go in there, and it's just like the modern society that's outside. The only place I've ever been to that is a break from moderism are some of these catholic latin mass churches.

So I've been going for to latin Catholic mass for about 1.5 years now. I think they're right about a lot of things. And when the pope came out with the edict restricting latin mass a little while ago the leader of our church wrote a letter back saying that we'll never stop the latin mass and that those who aren't willing to die for the mass are not worthy to attend the mass. That is something I want to be part of. That is inspiring. Count me in.

But ya dude...I'm in MT now. I would be happy to take you out in my raft for a float trip. Just you, me and Mary. LOL! Just kidding! Just kidding!

What do you understand about the Salvation that is through the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

[surfer14]

I think that there is no forgiveness of sin apart from Jesus. I think salvation comes through Jesus alone. I think we are to worship Jesus. Not Mary. Not any saints.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Nor was Israel a woman who gave birth to Jesus! And for that matter I didn't notice Israel fleeing to the wilderness in fear of Satan either. Nor are the Israel's children "those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus" as referenced in verse 17. Israel's children actively reject Jesus and certainly don't keep the commandments. In fact Israel's children were the ones being used by Satan to kill Christians. I think it's absurd to see Rev12 as anyone but Mary. The only way to see it otherwise is if you're trying to bend scripture to something you desperately want it to mean.

Rev 12 can’t be mary

Rev 12 is a rundown of the history/

Abraham to Isaac to jacob, the seed, which gave birth to christ

Abraham was told. In your seed shall all the nations of the world be blessed. That is israel

The offspring is the church. Israel is protected/ as prophesied. While the gentile church will be attacked and brutalized by satan and the antichrist.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was Mary holy, you bet she was. Does she and all the holy saints in heaven deserve honor from us, you answer that. And, if your answer is no, then you are lacking.

Mary, Like the rest of us. Deserve hell

Heaven is a gift, given to her by her son. But like us, she hasd to trust in her son as savior.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So many on this board seem to have animosity toward Mary, the mother of God, the mother of Jesus. Scripture tells us that Mary was 'filled with the Holy Spirit, when she said that all generations will call me blessed. And many do, but so many seem to despise Mary's role in Jesus' salvation. Keep in mind that when Mary claimed that all generations would call her blessed, she was 'filled with the Holy Spirit'. Well, the Holy Spirit wasn't wrong, neither was Scripture or Mary. Many have called her blessed throughout the last 2,000 years. And others have turned their backs on Mary, the Holy Spirit, and Scripture by denying her this blessedness.

Mary sings her hymn of praise to God, she says, “All generations will call me blessed.” God the Father honored Mary by choosing her to be the mother of Jesus. Our Lord Jesus honored Mary in all ways, as His mother. Jesus obeyed all the commandments, honor thy father and mother. And the Holy Spirit honored Mary by begetting Jesus unto the world. Mary and the Holy Spirit are inseparable. There is an unbreakable friendship between them. It is the Holy Spirit together with Mary that gives Jesus to the world.

So, if God the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit honor Mary, so will I. And, her prophesy is true. Despite animosity from many, all generations have called her blessed for 2,000 years.

And, if you only harbor animosity toward Mary, you also harbor animosit toward the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

PS. If I would dishonor any of your mothers, I'd be dishonoring you. Same way with Jesus and His mother. What a moral insult would it be to dishonor Jesus' mother Mary.

1. No one here has animosity toward mary.
2. Your idolization of mary, on the other hand, is idolatry at its finest.
3. Jesus honored his mother like any child should according to the law. That does not make Mary special
4. Mary is honored. But honoring and worshiping is 2 different things. We honor all the patriarch es. And the wo and and father of Jesus who had to endure the trials they endure. But we will not hold them up as Gods. Like the Roman Catholic Church does.
5. Your slandering people. That usually does not go well in CC. You better straighten out. Or you will not be here long. You want to support your point,. Support is biblically. Attacking people because they do nto agree with you just makes you look bad. And hurts your case. It does not support it.

 

[infinitekhanol]

The doctrine of "The Immaculate Conception" is not that the conception of our Lord in Mary was immaculate but much worse the doctrine states that Mary herself is immaculately conceived, that she is sinless.

A foolish doctrine

For if they suppose that Mary had to be immaculate in order to conceive Christ then all of Mary's line would of necessity stretching back to Adam have had to be immaculate. Mary was an ordinary simple devout Jewish girl.

The doctrines concerning Mary are the contrivances of dirty old men.

I think your understanding of The immaculate conception of Mary may differ from the Catholic belief. I think you need to find out what their true teaching on the subject is and not just posting what you have assumed they believe. I think they have their official way of communicating and explaining subjects of this nature.

I have come across people who call themselves ex Catholics who knew little or nothing about the true teachings of the Church. They run with what they thought they have seen with their own eyes and assumed to be the Church's doctrine. And truly, they make havoc of the doctrine without proper understanding.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I think your understanding of The immaculate conception of Mary may differ from the Catholic belief. I think you need to find out what their true teaching on the subject is and not just posting what you have assumed they believe. I think they have their official way of communicating and explaining subjects of this nature.

I have come across people who call themselves ex Catholics who knew little or nothing about the true teachings of the Church. They run with what they thought they have seen with their own eyes and assumed to be the Church's doctrine. And truly, they make havoc of the doctrine without proper understanding.

I have to agree with Evmur on this one. He's absolutely right.

 

[infinitekhanol]

If Mary was a perpetual virgin, we wouldn't have the book of James in the New Testament.

Written by James the half-brother of Jesus, not James who was one of the 12 disciples (and John's brother).

Are you really sure this James was a blood brother of Jesus? I think by James you must have meant the son of Alphaeus, who was one of the Apostles. I could not really find in the scripture where it was stated he was of the same mother and father with Jesus. Even the genealogy of Jesus in Mathew and Luke does not indicate that for the name Alphaeus never appeared or am I missing something?

That he was called his brethren does not suggest this because even in some countries especially African countries, cousins and nieces are called brothers and unless someone tells you, you may never know they are not of the same parents. I think the same could go for the Jews of the old. I do not know about now.

That Jesus called us brethren does not mean we are related by blood. I do not think the scripture says what you have opined in this post.

 

[infinitekhanol]

I have to agree with Evmur on this one. He's absolutely right.

ok. no qualms. But I do not think your agreeing with him makes his belief absolutely right.