Pastors, Please Quit Doing This

[SteveEpperson]

My pastor praises mothers/mother-figures and fathers/father-figures on Mother's/Father's Day, since a lot of the youth in my church come from troubled homes/foster care, etc.

Again, I ask, is one day enough to honor moms and dads who stay together even though western society is desperate for them to separate? Still, kudos to your pastor for taking an interest in the troubled youth within your community.

Not to go down a rabbit hole here, but your reply brings up another point. Single men in the church are often dismissed outright. And I think that's a shame, but a subject for another time, maybe.

 

[tourist]

Put down your microphones, step out from the pulpit, and go into your communities. There, you will find that man on the couch, watching football, desperate for spiritual direction.

The guy lying on the coach is exhausted for having worked his tail off all week to provide for his family. Now, he just wants to relax for a couple hours and watch a little football. He is not desperate for spiritual direction. He sure don't want some pastor guy knocking on his door disturbing his rest. Perhaps he could squeeze in a few minutes during half-time.

 

[tourist]

That pastor just needs to hook up with Missionary Athletes International.

Either that or take an anger management class.

 

[tourist]

As the spiritual leader in my home, the covering of my wife, and spiritual father to a multi-state household of saints I sat on my back porch watching a football game drinking a tequila with lime and enjoying a cigar last Sunday. Within the duration of the day I was able to encourage our daughters, connect with spiritual sons, and cover my wife with the word of God.

Outstanding.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Again, I ask, is one day enough to honor moms and dads who stay together even though western society is desperate for them to separate? Still, kudos to your pastor for taking an interest in the troubled youth within your community.

I believe Mother's/Father's/Grandparent's Days are nice celebratory days and we should keep them. I think what you are referring to is a celebratory day(s) specifically for married parents who stay together, and I believe that is worth celebrating as well. Do you believe Mother's Day and Father's Day to extend to those who are not biological parents? There are a lot of children born outside of marriage or who have parents who are not biological parents.

 

[TheIndianGirl]

Not to go down a rabbit hole here, but your reply brings up another point. Single men in the church are often dismissed outright. And I think that's a shame, but a subject for another time, maybe.

Yes, agreed. Married men have more advantages not only in church but also elsewhere like getting promotions at work, etc. However, generally I believe married people are viewed as more respectable, as people who understand "real-word" troubles and issues whereas singles lack understanding in these matters.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Wow! So as someone who was in ministry I'm gonna take a different view than most will

Not to put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you are taking the "us against them" approach that some pastors take toward the peasants sitting in the pews.

is the guy on the couch a Christian or not?

What difference does it make? Both the Christian and non-Christian need a leader who they can count on during spiritual hard times. And neither are getting that now, in most instances.

The non-Christian needs to hear the Gospel, and the Christian needs guidance on how to spread the Good News. Unfortunately, neither are receiving those things.

Never heard a pastor say that in all my years.

Maybe you just aren't willing to hear it.

But still, your pastor shouldn't have to guilt you (the guy on the couch) into going to church.

You are right, especially since it never, ever, ever, works. So, I say again, Pastors, please stop doing it. Because it is having a negative effect.

 

[DavidTree]

Tell me about it. In one church I attended, the pastor praised mothers (and women in general) to the highest heavens on Mothers' Day, but on Fathers' Day, he focused on God the Father, neglecting the men entirely.

Exalting women over men - the sure fire way.............

 

[posthuman]

Once they are there, the pastor preaches the Word.

that part

this is what i want from someone standing behind a pulpit: teaching. deep, expository teaching.
the Word is profitable. someone's musings, psychoanalyzing, ideas about life-coaching or complaining about the world isn't profitable to me. i don't need a 45min altar call -- i've been to the altar, and He went there for me, once and for all. i don't need to hear some abstract category of people praised, i need to hear God praised - and that in a way that i praise not just with my spirit but with my mind also.

it's my view that those giving sermons should be teaching the Word of God. explaining wisdom. searching out the testimony of Christ in the OT, revealing it through uncovering its components in the NT, feeding meat to the flock. let the elders exhort and pour milk; if we only hear 1 or 2 hours of an authority in the Church orating, then let it be teaching the word of God at the highest level they can manage. how much 'moms are great' or 'you guys are terrible' or 'better getcha a kjv' or 'why haven't you tithed' or 'don't miss next week or else' can you find in the letter to the Romans? or Hebrews?
don't let the wheat starve for the sake of tending the tares. not in the brief time you have -- it's not our job; the Lord will send His angels to separate the two, when the time for harvest is come.

JMO

 

[posthuman]

Yes, but is one day out of the year enough? Could our church leaders maybe sing the praises of heroic fathers and mothers more than that?

personally i don't think a church should be singing the praises of anyone but our Lord

 

[SomeDisciple]

Yeah, IDK why some preachers think that you can coerce people to Christ. It doesn't work that way.
The same goes for parents that try to coerce their kids to Christ. It doesn't work, and they are fools for trying to do it that way.

If people aren't going to your church, then obviously it doesn't seem better than what the world has to offer. Who's fault is that?

 

[kaylagrl]

You misspelled "standards of religion".

Have no fear, all who are mature will understand and if you think differently than I, God will correct you too.

The problem brother, is not everyone is as mature in their walk as you may be. The Bible tells us not to do anything that would cause a brother to stumble.

 

[kaylagrl]

Yeah, IDK why some preachers think that you can coerce people to Christ. It doesn't work that way.
The same goes for parents that try to coerce their kids to Christ. It doesn't work, and they are fools for trying to do it that way.

If people aren't going to your church, then obviously it doesn't seem better than what the world has to offer. Who's fault is that?

People are in bondage to sin, literally blinded by sin. The problem is we can't even get Christians serious about church. How do you expect the unsaved to want to attend church?

 

[Edify]

You are right, especially since it never, ever, ever, works. So, I say again, Pastors, please stop doing it. Because it is having a negative effect.

That's right, tell all the watchmen to quit sounding the alarm. We don't want those watchmen meddling in our business when I sit home on Sunday to invite my worldly friends to come over for some beer & snacks & watch the game.
Stop bothering me with my sin. Quit warning me about the consequences. Let me get hard-hearted & fall away from God.
Just say what you mean, & mean what you say. "Stop preaching at me, I'm tired of hearing it."

If you have it that bad, go to your pastor & tell him. Quit trying to convince us with your excuses.

 

[Edify]

In the next six months, I challenge ALL pastors, no matter how "effective" you think your ministry is, to stop preaching and show the rest of us how to make two disciples. Then, those two will make four. And those four will make eight, and so on.

So, are we talking about saved men, or sinners? I just needed a little clarification.

 

[Aaron56]

The problem brother, is not everyone is as mature in their walk as you may be. The Bible tells us not to do anything that would cause a brother to stumble.

Certainly. I would never offer him tequila for example.

 

[posthuman]

People are in bondage to sin, literally blinded by sin. The problem is we can't even get Christians serious about church. How do you expect the unsaved to want to attend church?

yes!

so if our churches are full of Biblically illiterate, crippled saints the majority of whom only get 1 hour a week of spiritual food, and the lost wouldn't dare darken the door in the first place, shouldn't we be feeding & equipping them for that 1 scant hour, instead of evangelizing to a room full of people who have already accepted the gospel, or celebrating second-cousins day?



the thing is that the congregation should be getting built up to serve, encourage and minister to each other, and to those to whom it's given, to evangelize the lost during the other 167 hours per week. it's not one special honored man's job to be the entire church while everyone else spectates. if we're preaching kindergarten sunday school as though no one in the pews has ever opened their textbook every week, how is anyone going to get mature? how are you ever going to get to chapter 2 if you go over chapter 1 every week, or you don't even teach the material at all?

filling our hearts & minds is more valuable than filling the pews with warm bodies and the coffers with gold.

((IMO))

 

[kaylagrl]

As the spiritual leader in my home, the covering of my wife, and spiritual father to a multi-state household of saints I sat on my back porch watching a football game drinking a tequila with lime and enjoying a cigar last Sunday. Within the duration of the day I was able to encourage our daughters, connect with spiritual sons, and cover my wife with the word of God.

Ok, but what if you had been the bus driver to bring ten children to Sunday School? What if you had invited a couple from work to church and they got saved and it helped save their marriage. What if Christians were as dedicated to church as they were to sports or entertainment or shopping? What a changed would this would be.

The house of God HAS NEVER BEEN A BUILDING. We are the living stones, built into a dwelling place for the Lord by the Holy Spirit. Do you think just knowing this will end our addiction to institutional religion? NO. We have to practice this. We go knowing that where the saints are, the Lord is there with them, that we consecrate a place by our presence not by our pews and stained glass. We are to live in the presence of God, not in a form of it without influence or power. Not in a manner handed down by the Romans and certainly not in a way that emulates the Mosaic priesthood ("You hear from God for us and tell us what He says").

Any mature Christian knows wherever we go is Holy Ground. We know God is within us. No one is saying keep it all within the church. As a traveling evangelist, that would be a stupid comment to make. I've sung in so many places outside a church building, but I've sung in many a church building. People have come to the Lord inside and outside of a literal church building, every place we can reach a person, we should. My pastor preaches the Word, and encourages us to go out and reach people with the Word. No one said you shouldn't know the Bible for yourself, but I do believe my pastor ALSO hears from God and has a word for us. Both can be true I can read it and hear it and it ministers to my spirit, then I reach out to others. Not everyone in a church building is a Christian, many are maturing Christians, there are hurting people. The Bible tells us not to forsake meeting together, even more so as we see the signs of the times.

Do you need a meeting? Have a meeting. But quit calling the building "a church" and quit calling the stage and pews "a sanctuary" and quit calling a man who doesn't know you "my pastor". We are weak and sick because we cannot discern the body. Those who financially benefit from this condition keep the people sick and weak for their own gain. My point: they cannot help you. But the Lord is with you, if He indeed lives in you, and He will never forsake you or leave you as orphans. When the Lord leads you out of the institution you will not lose a thing. In fact, you will gain the mind of Christ with the assurance that His love never fails.

I don't know how you gather together, as the Bible says, without a building. I've gone to church since I was a child. I grew up in the Word by going to Sunday school. I sat under wonderful pastors. I went in to ministry myself and then married and go to church with my hubby. When my grandmother took a brain tumor, my pastor was there supporting our family, we had a church family praying for us. When I lost my aunt at 40 to cancer, our pastor and church family were there surrounding us in prayer. When my mother took cancer last year our pastor met us at the hospital and stayed with us. Our church family sent in meals when she went through chemo. I don't share your view of a church as a mere "institution".

I had a pastor friend who had a huge church in the middle of nowhere. How did he get so many people in that church? He would visit sick people in the hospital. He would minister to the sick and their families and many people came to the Lord through his ministry. He went outside the church and brought them in. Sorry if you had a bad church experience, but the Bible is clear that we ought to gather together . We encourage each other in the Lord, we learn, we grow together.

 

[kaylagrl]

yes!

so if our churches are full of Biblically illiterate, crippled saints the majority of whom only get 1 hour a week of spiritual food, and the lost wouldn't dare darken the door in the first place, shouldn't we be feeding & equipping them for that 1 scant hour, instead of evangelizing to a room full of people who have already accepted the gospel, or celebrating second-cousins day?



the thing is that the congregation should be getting built up to serve, encourage and minister to each other, and to those to whom it's given, to evangelize the lost during the other 167 hours per week. it's not one special honored man's job to be the entire church while everyone else spectates. if we're preaching kindergarten sunday school as though no one in the pews has ever opened their textbook every week, how is anyone going to get mature? how are you ever going to get to chapter 2 if you go over chapter 1 every week, or you don't even teach the material at all?

filling our hearts & minds is more valuable than filling the pews with warm bodies and the coffers with gold.

((IMO))

IDK brother, I grew up during the time of prayer meetings at peoples homes. I grew up when it wasn't just the JWs that went door to door. I grew up where the church had an outreach into the community. We had a Sunday School bus, a bus full of kids that were un-churched which in turn brought in their parents. I recall the teens in our church put on a passion play. I was too young to take part then. We had a family that were attending the church and their sons were both on drugs. They came to church, got involved in teens and got saved during the passion play. They actually took the play on the road to other churches. We came to church, we were fed, we went out and spread the Gospel. So what your saying is a little foreign to me.

 

[SomeDisciple]

People are in bondage to sin, literally blinded by sin. The problem is we can't even get Christians serious about church. How do you expect the unsaved to want to attend church?

I don't really expect non-believers to go to church at all. Why would they? But Christians will want to go to church, if what you have going on is really church. People will come to get saved when they see your good deeds and glorify your father in heaven.

Either the people you want to come to church don't believe, in which case there is nothing you can do, except they be drawn by the spirit. Or the ministry is so bad that Christians have lost faith in the ministry. If the ministry builds people up, they will come. If not, they won't; they will look for something else. If the ministry blames them for the shortcomings of the ministry, they will not come back. But trying to shame people into coming to church is always going to backfire.