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justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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I’m not really following you the messiah is a word of God promised in scriptire for ages .

he would be born of a virgin ,( having no earthly father ) but being born of flesh and blood through his mother . The messiah would be God the father in the flesh

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is God this is what happened

“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


God saw that man was lost having no intercessor and so he became our intercessor being born a man , overcame the sinful nature of man never sinning but facing every temptation we do . God became one of us in order to provide an intercessor otherwise we were all lost in darkness forever

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me it seems simple almighty God became a man and overcame our bondage to sin and death . We can’t know the invisible God so he became visible and knowable in Christ

there’s really in my view only what scripture says

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

God is one , when the word was made flesh and manifest to the world in Christ it became known who the word is

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s just one name that covers those three elements of God , it’s the name of Jesus Christ his son. Whomis God manifest in the flesh of mankind for our salvation

there aren’t three Gods there’s one singular God and Father of creation who has shown himself to us in the son Jesus Christ and provided a relationship with us through the Holy Ghost

you can’t come to God any other way only by accepting the son can one know the father and receive the holy soirit . We can’t do that brought any religion only e gospel of God sending his son to provide a renewed spirit in man

the ot doesn’t come close to providing any such thing couldnt receive the spirit because they didn’t know the son he hadn’t shown himself yet

God is certainly one and he is one with Jesus Christ forever
God the Father and God the Son are distinct from one another, as the argument has been made that Jesus did not pray to Himself in the garden.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
5,630
113
God the Father and God the Son are distinct from one another, as the argument has been made that Jesus did not pray to Himself in the garden.
they were distinct while Christ was on earth in the flesh in order to show God to us he became one of us , subject to God that’s my belief also . The son of God is now our high priest forever

My point is this was the situation on earth

Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey:


( and so the solution )

and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-2, 8-12, 14-17, 19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And After Jesus had preached the gospel and finished his work in the earth was about to be glorified in the spirit as he was in the beginning

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we receive Jesus spirit now the children of Gods spirit because of what our God has done in Christ

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬

Jesus is God in all his glory

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭





“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:5-8, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
they were distinct while Christ was on earth in the flesh in order to show God to us he became one of us , subject to God that’s my belief also . The son of God is now our high priest forever

My point is this was the situation on earth

Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey:


( and so the solution )

and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-2, 8-12, 14-17, 19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ….And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And After Jesus had preached the gospel and finished his work in the earth was about to be glorified in the spirit as he was in the beginning

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we receive Jesus spirit now the children of Gods spirit because of what our God has done in Christ

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬

Jesus is God in all his glory

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭





“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

Behold, the Lord God will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭40:5-8, 10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬
I see no correlation between this post and what it was responding to.
 
May 22, 2020
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They are different Persons.


Again, Jesus is the Man-God. That's not a Spirit. And proves the Persons are separate.


jesus is full Deity. He is the Son of God. He's NOT the Son of Himself as your view suggestss.


Yes He is full Deity.


The "one Spirit" is the Holy Spirit.


This is just an opinion, a presumption.

Why do you reject the idea that 3 separate Persons can have the same exact attributes?


Your pronouncements are just more presumption.


Jesus is the God-Man, therefore not a Spirit. He can be seen and felt.

Remember my example of light to demonstrate the Trinity?


Your presumptions are getting in the way of understanding the Trinity.

They are the same person so the Bible says. God can be in different forms, at different times, in as many places as He wishes...or at the same time.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Did you read the scripture that I gave (Mark 13:32)?
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Jesus sometimes spoke from His humanity, and other times from His Deity. Not too hard to figure out.

The humanity of Jesus didn't know. But His Deity absolutely does know.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
My theology doesn't have God praying to Himself.
So, which member of the Trinity isn't God...
his question shows that you aren't paying attention. All 3 Persons are member of the Godhead. All are Deity. So your question is bogus.

Because we clearly have the Holy Ghost making intercession for us to the Father in Romans 8:26-27.
Which should prove to you that your ideas are wrong. Individuals talk to each other. But when 1 person talks to themself, that indicates a mental problem.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Heb 5:5 - In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.

This verse proves they are 2 separate Persons.
No, it proves that they are distinct.
I take distinct as separate. 3 separate Persons, all members of the Trinity.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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FreeGrace2 said:
Why do you reject the idea that 3 separate Persons can have the same exact attributes?
Because that is the mormon idea of God.
Mormons also believe the earth circles around the sun. So what?

You reject something just because others believe it? The Mormons are wildly off track biblically. Ignore them.

My view aligns with evangelical Christianity. Unlike your view.

Can you show any evidence that your view is what evangelicals believe rather than mine?
 
Jan 31, 2021
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Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Note the first use of 'Spirit' is capitalized and refers to God the Father. But, the second use of 'spirit' isn't capitalized, and does not refer to any member of the Trinity. It refers to the human spirit. iow, in order to worship God, a person must have a living human spirit. When Adam rebelled his human spirit died "on that day". Upon saving faith in Christ, the
spiritually dead human spirit is borh AGAIN or RE-generated. Made alive.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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They are the same person so the Bible says. God can be in different forms, at different times, in as many places as He wishes...or at the same time.
You can believe what you want. But if they are "the same person" then you have this "same person" talking to himself.

Gen 1:26 - Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

2 Cor13:14 - May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

Matt 3:16,17
16 And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; 17 and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”

Luke 22:41,4
41 He withdrew about a stone’s throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.”

Mark 9:7 - Then a cloud appeared and covered them, and a voice came from the cloud: “This is my Son, whom I love. Listen to him!”

1 John 1:3 - We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ. Notice “with the Father AND with His Son”

1 John 2:1 - My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

1 John 2:24 - As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. Again, notice the AND.

1 John 4:10 - This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

1 John 4:14,15

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.

1 John 5:5 - Who is it that overcomes the world? Only the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

1 John 5:9-11

9 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

2 John 3 - Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Father’s Son, will be with us in truth and love.

2 John 9 - Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.

Jude 1 - Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for Jesus Christ:

Rev 1:1 - The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,

Rev 2:27 - that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’—just as I have received authority from my Father.

This is just some examples of very specific wording regarding the 3 distinct Persons of the Trinity.

One thing should be very clear. No one can be their own father or their own son. Much less both.

God is omnipotent and is not limited in what He does. But, He NEVER violates His own standards, integrity, etc. As such, God cannot sin. And, God cannot be irrational.

These verses, plus many more, show clearly that the Father and the Son are separate Persons who talk WITH EACH OTHER and not One who talks to Himself.

Try reading these verses while keeping in mind that those talking are the same person, and see how rational it is.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
FreeGrace2 said:
Heb 5:5 - In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.

This verse proves they are 2 separate Persons.

I take distinct as separate. 3 separate Persons, all members of the Trinity.
If they are separate, that is three Gods (Tritheism).
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
Note the first use of 'Spirit' is capitalized and refers to God the Father. But, the second use of 'spirit' isn't capitalized, and does not refer to any member of the Trinity. It refers to the human spirit. iow, in order to worship God, a person must have a living human spirit. When Adam rebelled his human spirit died "on that day". Upon saving faith in Christ, the spiritually dead human spirit is borh AGAIN or RE-generated. Made alive.
Of course the point was that God the Father is a Spirit.

Thanks for affirming that.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
justbyfaith said:
So, which member of the Trinity isn't God...
his question shows that you aren't paying attention. All 3 Persons are member of the Godhead. All are Deity. So your question is bogus.

Because we clearly have the Holy Ghost making intercession for us to the Father in Romans 8:26-27.
Which should prove to you that your ideas are wrong. Individuals talk to each other. But when 1 person talks to themself, that indicates a mental problem.
When the Holy Ghost makes intercession within us to the Father, it is God praying to God.

What applies effectively to men does not apply in the same way to God.

So, even though God prays to God in Romans 8:26-27, He does not have a mental problem.