Saved by Water

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May 22, 2020
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Yes I agree scripture also presents God To us in three ways

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

The word in heaven was made flesh ( the son born on earth )

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men. …And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 3-4, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

so as the father and holy ghost remained in heaven Jesus was born on the flesh later though at his baptism father son and Holy Ghost came together in one in Jesus Christ for the time we read of his miraculous birth , short miraculous healing and preaching ministry on earth , his death and resurrection and ascension to the throne of God in heaven

Jesus in my view is the only way we could know the father or Holy Ghost because only Jesus the word made flesh was manifest it’s our God being shown To us on our world in the flesh and only in the gospel do we learn of God the father calling us his children and receiving his Holy Spirit. Living forever in the kingdom with Jesus ect

I just see it as God making himself known showing himself to
Man kind and becoming everything we needed to be saved for shepherd and comforter , to father and savior , to sacrifice and eventually Risen up and glorified high priest in heaven always interceding for us

I believe Jesus To be almighty God revealing himself to us but it’s only my own view from study
God can be where He wishes, when He wishes, in what Capacity He wishes and for as long as He wishes. There are no limits to God.
We are used to human limitations and to often apply that thinking to God. It doesn't fit.

We see this in Christ's baptism.
We see this in Christ being tempted on the mt.
We see this in the 2nd advent of Christ..... in that only God knows the day and hour.
We see this in Christ's sacrifice on the cross, etc.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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I know what the argument is (that it is baptism because of the remission of sins and not for them) but reject it.

I believe that the kjv is inspired and inerrant as concerning doctrine.

And it is your prerogative to reject this as a premise; however, I would say I believe that the premise in itself is an aspect of the narrow way that leads to life (Matthew 7:13-14).

And that you ought to consider this as a claim. For if it is a true claim, then rejecting the doctrine of the kjv would be tantamount to rejecting the testimony of the Holy Ghost concerning salvation.

And if a person does that, how shall he be saved?
By grace, through faith and even that faith is God's gift. Which version of the Bible you use is irrelevant. People were being saved and born again before the New Testament was put to paper.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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By grace, through faith and even that faith is God's gift. Which version of the Bible you use is irrelevant. People were being saved and born again before the New Testament was put to paper.
I will generally agree with that assessment but would contend that if anyone is getting their spiritual nourishment from a modern translation, it will make them to be spiritually anemic.

The devil was not able to change the newer translations so much that a man cannot come to salvation in the Lord Jesus Christ by reading any translation (with the exception of the NeWT and I do not know which others).

However, I believe that newer translations are the reason why there are doctrines, in the church of Sardis (Revelation 3) that are lost; and why the angel of that church of Sardis is told to "strengthen those things which remain, that are ready to die" (Revelation 3:2).
 
May 22, 2020
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By grace, through faith and even that faith is God's gift. Which version of the Bible you use is irrelevant. People were being saved and born again before the New Testament was put to paper.
That has nothing to do with God having formulated a commandment for baptism as part of the repentance process presented in the NT.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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I have a background with the "Jesus-only" movement; but I differ from them in that I believe that there are distinctions in the members of the Trinity.
This seems to be just a distinction without a difference.

My theology doesn't have God praying to Himself. I view that as very weird.

Heb 5:5 - In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.

This verse proves they are 2 separate Persons. Again, how weird if the Father and Son are the same Person.
 
Jan 31, 2021
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@FreeGrace2,

In your opinion, are the Father and Jesus different Spirits?
They are different Persons.

For I consider that there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); even God (John 4:24).

Since this is the case, is Jesus a different Spirit from the Father?
Again, Jesus is the Man-God. That's not a Spirit. And proves the Persons are separate.

Is Jesus God, in your opinion?
jesus is full Deity. He is the Son of God. He's NOT the Son of Himself as your view suggestss.

Is the Father God?
Yes He is full Deity.

Because there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); even God (John 4:24).
The "one Spirit" is the Holy Spirit.

So, if Jesus is not the same Spirit as the Father, He is not God.
This is just an opinion, a presumption.

Why do you reject the idea that 3 separate Persons can have the same exact attributes?

Or, if you consider that Jesus is God, then the Father is not God; since God is one Spirit; and therefore if Jesus is God, He is that one Spirit; and therefore the father cannot be that Spirit; unless they ate the same Spirit.
Your pronouncements are just more presumption.

Is Jesus a Spirit, in your opinion? If He is not, then He is not God (John 4:24).
Jesus is the God-Man, therefore not a Spirit. He can be seen and felt.

Remember my example of light to demonstrate the Trinity?

But if He is God, then He is a Spirit (John 4:24); even the same Spirit as the Father; since God is one Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

Therefore, Jesus and the Father cannot be separate Spirits; since there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), even God (John 4:24).
Your presumptions are getting in the way of understanding the Trinity.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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I would ask you, @Pilgrimshope,

If you believe that the Father is a Spirit without flesh; and the Son, the same Spirit come in human flesh?

Do you believe that an added nature of humanity might make for a difference in personality?

I believe that God, after living one eternal moment, descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

In that eternal moment, He inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15); and is a Spirit without flesh.

I believe that taking on an added nature of human flesh produces a distinct Person; while we are also talking about the same Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).
I’m not really following you the messiah is a word of God promised in scriptire for ages .

he would be born of a virgin ,( having no earthly father ) but being born of flesh and blood through his mother . The messiah would be God the father in the flesh

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is God this is what happened

“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬


God saw that man was lost having no intercessor and so he became our intercessor being born a man , overcame the sinful nature of man never sinning but facing every temptation we do . God became one of us in order to provide an intercessor otherwise we were all lost in darkness forever

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me it seems simple almighty God became a man and overcame our bondage to sin and death . We can’t know the invisible God so he became visible and knowable in Christ

there’s really in my view only what scripture says

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭

God is one , when the word was made flesh and manifest to the world in Christ it became known who the word is

“Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There’s just one name that covers those three elements of God , it’s the name of Jesus Christ his son. Whomis God manifest in the flesh of mankind for our salvation

there aren’t three Gods there’s one singular God and Father of creation who has shown himself to us in the son Jesus Christ and provided a relationship with us through the Holy Ghost

you can’t come to God any other way only by accepting the son can one know the father and receive the holy soirit . We can’t do that brought any religion only e gospel of God sending his son to provide a renewed spirit in man

the ot doesn’t come close to providing any such thing couldnt receive the spirit because they didn’t know the son he hadn’t shown himself yet

God is certainly one and he is one with Jesus Christ forever
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
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I do believe in monotheism. 3 separate Persons all with the same attributes.
If you believe that they are separate rather than distinct, then that is three Gods....Tritheism.

And closer to the mormon idea of God than the Trinity.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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My theology doesn't have God praying to Himself.
So, which member of the Trinity isn't God...

the Father or the Holy Ghost?

Because we clearly have the Holy Ghost making intercession for us to the Father in Romans 8:26-27.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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Heb 5:5 - In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him, “You are my Son;
today I have become your Father.

This verse proves they are 2 separate Persons.
No, it proves that they are distinct.
 

justbyfaith

Well-known member
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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Jesus is the God-Man, therefore not a Spirit.
If He is not a Spirit, then He isn't God (John 4:24).

I would point out to you that the Spirit dwelling in Jesus was and is the Father, according to John 14:7-11.

Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Jhn 14:7, If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
Jhn 14:8,
Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
Jhn 14:9, Jesus saith unto him,
Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jhn 14:10, Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Jhn 14:11, Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.