THE RAPTURE/END OF DAYS

[ewq1938]

Yes, I'm a bit speechless too. I hope he misspoke. Anyway, there's also this verse, too.

Revelation 21:8
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

This is a good reminder of how exactly backwards and wrong one side of this debate is.

 

[Laura798]

Yes, I'm a bit speechless too. I hope he misspoke. Anyway, there's also this verse, too.

Revelation 21:8
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Runningman, I don't know if you or any others are aware--I had forgotten about this, but in the Nicene Creed it says 'Christ descended into Hell--OF course the meaning was clear at the time of its writing. They knew hell/sheol to be the grave. Also, the verse about the 'spirits in prison'--about the people before the flood. Of course Jesus did not speak to them after they were dead, instead he spoke to them thru NOAH---they were imprisoned/entombed by the water--not in hell. Sometimes we just need to use common sense. Once a person dies they don't get a second chance.

Jesus died and was in the grave three days as the scripture says, since of course Christ would never suffer ECT. Additionally Revelation says the fire is PREPARED--we know it is figurative for the Condemnation that will happen at the Judgment--it of course is impossible for our Righteous and Holy King to 'descend' into this mythological place--and if it did exist--no one would go there UNTIL the judgment. Lordy me....

 

[Nehemiah6]

You believe Christ faced the great white throne judgement, was not found in the Book of Life, and was then cast into the lake of fire to experience the second death?

Once again, this shows a total ignorance of the finished work of Christ. That is what happens when people start rejecting fundamental Bible doctrines.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Oh my goodness Nehemiah--that is my point exactly! If a person believes ECT is the penalty, that would then mean Christ would have to pay THAT as the penalty and not death--this is why ECT is ABSOLUTELY FALSE!

The Second Death is indeed the torment of eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire. That penalty was fully paid by Christ. That is why He said "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

 

[Nehemiah6]

He did not suffer the second death because that is to die in the lake of fire.

You seem to be unaware that Christ did indeed suffer the torments of Hell within His soul while on the cross. Kindly study the matter carefully. He did not need to enter the Lake of Fire.

 

[Runningman]

Once again, this shows a total ignorance of the finished work of Christ. That is what happens when people start rejecting fundamental Bible doctrines.

You said Christ faced the second death. Since you did not correct that then I assume you believe what you said is true. It's 100% false and quite frankly it's blasphemy. I have a feeling you didn't know that, but you're being told now.

 

[ewq1938]

You seem to be unaware that Christ did indeed suffer the torments of Hell within His soul while on the cross.

That is not something from the bible.

Kindly study the matter carefully. He did not need to enter the Lake of Fire.

There is no resurrection from the second death. It is death of body, soul and spirit. Jesus did not experience that.

 

[ewq1938]

It's 100% false and quite frankly it's blasphemy.

Agreed.

 

[Laura798]

That is not something from the bible.




There is no resurrection from the second death. It is death of body, soul and spirit. Jesus did not experience that.

You seem to be unaware that Christ did indeed suffer the torments of Hell within His soul while on the cross. Kindly study the matter carefully. He did not need to enter the Lake of Fire.

This is an impossibility, even if it were a 'real' place, which it isn't. How would he suffer the torments of hell since the Lake of Fire (which you call hell) has ZERO function until the judgment--have you read any of our prior posts which explain why this cannot be the case? Revelation is CLEAR who the Lake of Fire is for--it is NOT for believers and it most certainly IS NOT nor ever will be a place Christ would go to!

 

[ewq1938]

This is an impossibility, even if it were a 'real' place, which it isn't. How would he suffer the torments of hell since the Lake of Fire (which you call hell) has ZERO function until the judgment

I would say zero function until the second coming:

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Laura798]

Once again, this shows a total ignorance of the finished work of Christ. That is what happens when people start rejecting fundamental Bible doctrines.

Which is exactly what you are doing, Nehemiah--what you are saying has no basis in Scripture--how could Christ suffer the torments of hell in His soul--where do you find this in scripture? Over and over it says he DIED. That by His DEATH was the penalty for our sin, not some 'soul torture'--it is impossible to construe any verse to mean this!

Please read Isaiah 52 and 53--read ALL verses regarding His death. There is nothing that you can base this notion on.

because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

 

[soberxp]

THE RAPTURE/END OF TIME

I believe we are living now in the Tribulations. These are the "end times" spoken of by Jesus, and I believe every day the "end of days" draws nearer when Jesus shall return for His Church! I believe this will be the "end of time," and there will be NO second chances, no "do overs," or any such. When the Eastern Sky splits and Jesus descends to gather His Church and rapture them up to be with Him forever, that will be it! All that will remain will be the Judgement........

Below are Scriptures concerning the rapture..........


1 Thessalonians, Chapter 4:

14) For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15) For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17_ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18) Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians, Chapter 15:

34) Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

35) But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36) Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37) And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38) But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39) All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40) There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41) There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42) So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43) It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44) It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47) The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

48) As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49) And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55) O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

57) But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58) Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

John, Chapter 5:

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Mark, Chapter 13:

32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Matthew 24:27 - For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

AT least, I have try ,all your answer is here https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/the-second-coming-of-jesus.193968/#post-4337271

 

[Absolutely]

Which is exactly what you are doing, Nehemiah--what you are saying has no basis in Scripture--how could Christ suffer the torments of hell in His soul--where do you find this in scripture? Over and over it says he DIED. That by His DEATH was the penalty for our sin, not some 'soul torture'--it is impossible to construe any verse to mean this!

Please read Isaiah 52 and 53--read ALL verses regarding His death. There is nothing that you can base this notion on.

because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

I think what nehemiah is referring to is the substitute thingy.
He took our place.

 

[Absolutely]

I am really baffled by this comment. When did I call the Bible or the brethren Satan? My remarks are aimed at the interpretation given and believed by those who are deceived. The idea that ''Every camp
agrees'' that the blessed hope is the second coming and glorification of the saints is inaccurate if
it was there would not be a debate about it. The blessed hope for them is that the 'seventh cavalry'
will come and zap them all away before things get really nasty.

According to the Pre trib teaching there are not two comings of Christ but three. Another invisible
coming is slipped in between the two There is not one body of Christ but two. One is zapped up
during this supposed invisible coming the other stays on the earth during the great tribulation. The
second class body left behind suffer martyrdom and all the other horrors. Jewish believers however somehow escape persecution and are free to roam around the world evangelizing instead of being zapped away with the rest of the special privileged crowd. Although some in Jerusalem are told to take to the hills. If anyone wants to believe all this they are free to do so at the moment.

Here ya go;
"""The only person robbing you is Satan. The Bible teaches that there will be a falling away before Christs return. I pray that you and others who are deceived wont be among them who fall away when the Antichrist arrives and you realise that you have been fed with his lies."""

That is your connection.
Your lowly charachterization of pretribbers.
Sitting in satans lap taking in every lie satan can feed us.

Postribs somehow need that since there are zero postrib verses.
None at all....not a one!!
That should baffle you.
But no...in spite of being soundly defeated you carry on.
About all you guys have left is personal put downs.

Where we have solid biblical verses that you guys can not reconcile at all.

 

[tanakh]

Here ya go


That is your connection.
Your lowly charachterization of pretribbers.
Sitting in satans lap taking in every lie satan can feed us.

Postribs somehow need that since there are zero postrib verses.
None at all....not a one!!
That should baffle you.
But no...in spite of being soundly defeated you carry on.
About all you guys have left is personal put downs.

Where we have solid biblical verses that you guys can not reconcile at all.

 

[tanakh]

Final reply to Absolutely

Its not the Bible verses I have a problem with. Its the Pre Trib interpretation of them and lack of context
in many cases that I disagree with. The subject requires a lot more than what posts or threads can achieve. I will address some points in your last post to me. You claim I Characterise pre Tribbers
as sitting in Satans lap and taking in every lie he feeds them. It appears that Pre Tribbers can never be misled by Satan as opposed to the rest of humanity including myself and people on this Site who have the audacity to suggest that the Pre Tribs are wrong. The only person I know of who was never
misled by Satan was Christ. Apparently I have been soundly defeated. I don't feel at all defeated. Should I roll over and die perhaps? I thought this was a serious discussion. Obviously I was wrong
about that.

 

[peldom10]

Here ya go;
"""The only person robbing you is Satan. The Bible teaches that there will be a falling away before Christs return. I pray that you and others who are deceived wont be among them who fall away when the Antichrist arrives and you realise that you have been fed with his lies."""

That is your connection.
Your lowly charachterization of pretribbers.
Sitting in satans lap taking in every lie satan can feed us.

Postribs somehow need that since there are zero postrib verses.
None at all....not a one!!
That should baffle you.
But no...in spite of being soundly defeated you carry on.
About all you guys have left is personal put downs.

Where we have solid biblical verses that you guys can not reconcile at all.

Be not absent of resolve.
The new age religion group is always trying to change the Bible and while frustrating some time I have emails that strongly suggest messages of God's correct word is getting through. As God tells us....Keep up .....the good fight until the end.

Praise God.

 

[Absolutely]

Be not absent of resolve.
The new age religion group is always trying to change the Bible and while frustrating some time I have emails that strongly suggest messages of God's correct word is getting through. As God tells us....Keep up .....the good fight until the end.

Praise God.

I've got a few of them on ignore.

There is no fruit in dishonest exchanges.

 

[Absolutely]

Final reply to Absolutely

Its not the Bible verses I have a problem with. Its the Pre Trib interpretation of them and lack of context
in many cases that I disagree with. The subject requires a lot more than what posts or threads can achieve. I will address some points in your last post to me. You claim I Characterise pre Tribbers
as sitting in Satans lap and taking in every lie he feeds them. It appears that Pre Tribbers can never be misled by Satan as opposed to the rest of humanity including myself and people on this Site who have the audacity to suggest that the Pre Tribs are wrong. The only person I know of who was never
misled by Satan was Christ. Apparently I have been soundly defeated. I don't feel at all defeated. Should I roll over and die perhaps? I thought this was a serious discussion. Obviously I was wrong
about that.

If you are in the concepts of doctrine ,do you need to shoot down the messenger?

If that were a real test, then king david would be disenfranchised and thrown in the same heap as us evil pretrib adherents.

He wrote 30 or 50 % of the psalms.

Was he getting them from satan?

That is where shooting the messenger leads.

Big time rabbit trail.

But it is 75 % or so of the postrib doctrine.

That would be a good expose'.

What % of postrib doctrine is shooting the messenger?

I am going to say 75 to 95 %.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Christ died on the cross He endured both the first and the second deaths. That is why no Christian will ever face the second death. The total penalty for sins was paid in FULL.

Amen. Praise HIS Precious Name, now and ForEverMore!

He did not suffer the second death because that is to die in the lake of fire.

Precious friend, you DO understand That God Is INFINITE? What finite man CANNOT
understand is how an INFINITE God PAID THE FULL PENALTY of sin! Correct?

Once again, this shows a total ignorance of the FINISHED work of Christ. That is what happens when people start rejecting fundamental Bible doctrines.

Precious friend, Nehemiah6, you have Already Well Posted, elsewhere, THE Most Important Fundamental Bible Doctrine About CHRIST's FULL Sacrifice! But I fear it is "falling" on deaf ears, and through the cracks below!

May God Help us, By GRACE, to reach those who will hear. Amen?:

The FULL PENAL SUBSTITUTION Of our Blessed LORD And SAVIOUR, JESUS CHRIST!