How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, you will know that her desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country stay out of the city. 22For these are the days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written.
23How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Since Jerusalem was sacked and "trodden down" by the Romans and those after, it sat in desolation for about 2,000 years.
Today we are closing in on the Lord's return = Matthew 23:32-35
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
The "times of the Gentiles" is Daniel ch2 with the final details in chs 7-12.
Christ is coming back = the Rock cut out of the Mountain
23How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem will be trodden down by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
Since Jerusalem was sacked and "trodden down" by the Romans and those after, it sat in desolation for about 2,000 years.
Today we are closing in on the Lord's return = Matthew 23:32-35
“Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
The "times of the Gentiles" is Daniel ch2 with the final details in chs 7-12.
Christ is coming back = the Rock cut out of the Mountain
I hurriedly misread it to mean Daniel 2:7-12.
Sorry...
Go look at those six verses and you should understand my response. (haha)
Thank you for your response.
Sorry...
Go look at those six verses and you should understand my response. (haha)
Thank you for your response.
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Lol
You can force fit anything.
"Like manner" to you is he left an army dead, the ac is defeated, and millions of white horses are standing around the earths population is anihilated by 2/3, men are crying for the rocks to fall,the earth is practically destroyed, no buying or selling, all have the mark.....and on and on.
That is what a postrib rapture "like manner" looks like.
Are you serious????
No sir.
The pretrib model has Jesus coming for his bride in the same MANNER as we see his asention in acts one.
You can force fit anything.
"Like manner" to you is he left an army dead, the ac is defeated, and millions of white horses are standing around the earths population is anihilated by 2/3, men are crying for the rocks to fall,the earth is practically destroyed, no buying or selling, all have the mark.....and on and on.
That is what a postrib rapture "like manner" looks like.
Are you serious????
No sir.
The pretrib model has Jesus coming for his bride in the same MANNER as we see his asention in acts one.
Are you greater then the Lord who said: "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened."
You may have also forgotten these words from the Lord: "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master."
" And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
There is no such thing as 'pre-trib' rapture in Scripture.
Not you or anyone has been able to bring forth even one verse that says:
A.) Christ is coming to rapture His Bride BEFORE the Tribulation.
B.) Gathering of Saints BEFORE the Resurrection
C.) Christ First comes for the Rapture and then Returns later for the Resurrection
D.) There are Three Gospels - one for the Church, one for the Tribulation Saints and one for the Jews
E.) Jesus will leave BEHIND His Saints/His Elect/His Overcomers/His Bride AFTER HE Comes
F.) the Church/Saints/Elect are raptured and in Heaven BEFORE chapters 19 & 20
You may have also forgotten these words from the Lord: "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master."
" And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
There is no such thing as 'pre-trib' rapture in Scripture.
Not you or anyone has been able to bring forth even one verse that says:
A.) Christ is coming to rapture His Bride BEFORE the Tribulation.
B.) Gathering of Saints BEFORE the Resurrection
C.) Christ First comes for the Rapture and then Returns later for the Resurrection
D.) There are Three Gospels - one for the Church, one for the Tribulation Saints and one for the Jews
E.) Jesus will leave BEHIND His Saints/His Elect/His Overcomers/His Bride AFTER HE Comes
F.) the Church/Saints/Elect are raptured and in Heaven BEFORE chapters 19 & 20
Well now, we do not find what you say, in Revelation ch 14
As a matter of fact, the Scripture and Prophecy of the LORD corrects your erroneous claims.
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
The LORD says His Saints will be preaching the Gospel in chapter 14 verse 12
The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus is found in Matthew 22:35-37
Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts ch1
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Acts 5:42
As a matter of fact, the Scripture and Prophecy of the LORD corrects your erroneous claims.
And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and its image, and receives its mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”
Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
And I heard a voice from heaven telling me to write, “Blessed are the dead—those who die in the Lord from this moment on.”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labors, for their deeds will follow them.”
The LORD says His Saints will be preaching the Gospel in chapter 14 verse 12
The commandments of God and the faith of Jesus is found in Matthew 22:35-37
Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts ch1
And daily in the temple, and in every house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Acts 5:42
"Like manner".
The Holy Spirit can seal truth in the most unlikely placed.
The biggest blinders of all , however, are appalling.
That would be the bride groom dynamic.
The all time greatest ( or one of the greatest) event is on the horizon and even pretribbers are sitting on their eschatology hands.
The gathering of the bride by the groom.
Only a couple of is ( almost none outside myself) even mention it.
It is vividly vividly depicted in mat 25.
But only myself bring the components in their actual factual form into the debate.
Practically everyone needs one or more components reframed, changed, or omitted.
.....and actually defend bizzare substitutions.!!!!
What is it with that?????
I do realize the investment most people have in their doctrinal studies and their unique conclusions that they have formulated, but shouldn't we all get them from the Bible? And even though it hurts ,and it don't feel too good ,we need to have some kind of mechanism in us ready to admit we're wrong and change our position.
If we don't have that in place it becomes an incubator for error because I've seen the greatest of them admit they were wrong, and confess as part of their testimony, that they've had to change their View.
I hate it when I'm wrong .
it don't feel good .
But that should not stop us from admitting we're wrong just because of some pride, or some great great investment in a dynamic of the bible....then finding out it's error ,and that we've been in this error, and spreading it , or actually teaching error to other people there's a pride Factor there and it it's kind of a stench to heaven.
The Holy Spirit can seal truth in the most unlikely placed.
The biggest blinders of all , however, are appalling.
That would be the bride groom dynamic.
The all time greatest ( or one of the greatest) event is on the horizon and even pretribbers are sitting on their eschatology hands.
The gathering of the bride by the groom.
Only a couple of is ( almost none outside myself) even mention it.
It is vividly vividly depicted in mat 25.
But only myself bring the components in their actual factual form into the debate.
Practically everyone needs one or more components reframed, changed, or omitted.
.....and actually defend bizzare substitutions.!!!!
What is it with that?????
I do realize the investment most people have in their doctrinal studies and their unique conclusions that they have formulated, but shouldn't we all get them from the Bible? And even though it hurts ,and it don't feel too good ,we need to have some kind of mechanism in us ready to admit we're wrong and change our position.
If we don't have that in place it becomes an incubator for error because I've seen the greatest of them admit they were wrong, and confess as part of their testimony, that they've had to change their View.
I hate it when I'm wrong .
it don't feel good .
But that should not stop us from admitting we're wrong just because of some pride, or some great great investment in a dynamic of the bible....then finding out it's error ,and that we've been in this error, and spreading it , or actually teaching error to other people there's a pride Factor there and it it's kind of a stench to heaven.
THis word: Tribulation
. Tribulation (2347) (θλίψις thlipsis (thliy'-psis) n.)
Pressure.
{Literally or figuratively}[From G2346]
KJV: afflicted(-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble; Root(s): G2346
Paul's usage (which reflects Yahshua's usage)
1. Problems, sufferings, evil involved in a fallen world
a. Matthew 13:21
b. Romans 5:3
c. 1 Corinthians 7:28
d. 2 Corinthians 7:4
e. Ephesians 3:13
2. Problems, sufferings, evil caused by unbelievers
a. Romans 5:3; 8:35; 12:12
b. 2 Corinthians 1:4, 8; 6:4; 7:4; 8:2, 13
c. Ephesians 3:13
d. Philippians 4:14
e. 1 Thessalonians 1:6
f. 2 Thessalonians 1:4
3. Problems, sufferings, evil of the end-time
a. Matthew 24:21, 29
b. Mark 13:19, 24
c. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
b. John's usage
1. John makes a specific distinction between thlipsis and orgē or thumos (wrath) in
Revelation. Thlipsis is what unbelievers do to believers and orgē and thumos is
what Yahweh does to unbelievers.
a. thlipsis ~ Revelation 1:9; 2:9-10, 22; 7:14
b. orgē ~ Revelation 6:16-17; 11:18; 16:19; 19:15
c. thumos ~ Revelation 12:12; 14:8, 10, 19; 15:1, 7; 16:1; 18:3
2. John also uses the term in his Gospel to reflect problems believers face in every
age.
a. John 16:33
God Bless!
. Tribulation (2347) (θλίψις thlipsis (thliy'-psis) n.)
Pressure.
{Literally or figuratively}[From G2346]
KJV: afflicted(-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble; Root(s): G2346
Paul's usage (which reflects Yahshua's usage)
1. Problems, sufferings, evil involved in a fallen world
a. Matthew 13:21
b. Romans 5:3
c. 1 Corinthians 7:28
d. 2 Corinthians 7:4
e. Ephesians 3:13
2. Problems, sufferings, evil caused by unbelievers
a. Romans 5:3; 8:35; 12:12
b. 2 Corinthians 1:4, 8; 6:4; 7:4; 8:2, 13
c. Ephesians 3:13
d. Philippians 4:14
e. 1 Thessalonians 1:6
f. 2 Thessalonians 1:4
3. Problems, sufferings, evil of the end-time
a. Matthew 24:21, 29
b. Mark 13:19, 24
c. 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
b. John's usage
1. John makes a specific distinction between thlipsis and orgē or thumos (wrath) in
Revelation. Thlipsis is what unbelievers do to believers and orgē and thumos is
what Yahweh does to unbelievers.
a. thlipsis ~ Revelation 1:9; 2:9-10, 22; 7:14
b. orgē ~ Revelation 6:16-17; 11:18; 16:19; 19:15
c. thumos ~ Revelation 12:12; 14:8, 10, 19; 15:1, 7; 16:1; 18:3
2. John also uses the term in his Gospel to reflect problems believers face in every
age.
a. John 16:33
God Bless!
YES, Matthew 25:1-13 the five wise virgins who are symbolic of the Lord's gathering His Elect
He comes at the darkest hour in world history (at Midnight), the Great Tribulation, when most are asleep.
He comes for those HE Knows (marriage term)
HE comes after the Tribulation just as HE said Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 John 2:18-19
Notice how Mathew chapter 25 comes after chapter 24.................
He comes at the darkest hour in world history (at Midnight), the Great Tribulation, when most are asleep.
He comes for those HE Knows (marriage term)
HE comes after the Tribulation just as HE said Matthew 24 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 John 2:18-19
Notice how Mathew chapter 25 comes after chapter 24.................
Yes!
A definate component to the walk of faith.
Trials
Storms of life
The enemy
People
Family
Even the mechanisms within the believer that need to be cast out.
......and like you say....tribulation.
But how do we know the power of God, without some battles and miracles from heaven in the arena of relationships, healing, finances ,Etc?
The man of faith never losses a battle.
A definate component to the walk of faith.
Trials
Storms of life
The enemy
People
Family
Even the mechanisms within the believer that need to be cast out.
......and like you say....tribulation.
But how do we know the power of God, without some battles and miracles from heaven in the arena of relationships, healing, finances ,Etc?
The man of faith never losses a battle.
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Never forget, disobey or deny the words of the Lord who said: Revelation 6:9-11
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation 14:12-13
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
Revelation 14:12-13
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, “Write: ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.’ ”
“Yes,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them.”
Revelation 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands.
And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection.
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You have already been shown that folly you promote as truth
They were resurrected way prior to rev 20.
The ac is defeated, as is his army and Jesus has established his kingdom complete with thrones and martyrs.
And you claim erroneously there is a resurrection in rev 20.
Those resurrected martyrs are ESTABLISHED AND SEATED. they HAD TO BE resurrected BEFORE the second coming.....
No brainer that there is NO RESURRRECTION after armageddon.
They were resurrected way prior to rev 20.
The ac is defeated, as is his army and Jesus has established his kingdom complete with thrones and martyrs.
And you claim erroneously there is a resurrection in rev 20.
Those resurrected martyrs are ESTABLISHED AND SEATED. they HAD TO BE resurrected BEFORE the second coming.....
No brainer that there is NO RESURRRECTION after armageddon.
Do you know where that folly came from?
Niv translation.
That error has lead many people into a lie.
Niv " they came to life" in rev 20.
Leading people into that folly , thinking john witnessed a resurrection of martyrs AFTER ARMAGEDDON.
Nope it is saying they are PART OF.
Not "THE" first resurrection.
Keep reading and it differentiates First and second resurrection.
It all flows together...but some need it twisted.
Help them Lord.
What a mess
Niv translation.
That error has lead many people into a lie.
Niv " they came to life" in rev 20.
Leading people into that folly , thinking john witnessed a resurrection of martyrs AFTER ARMAGEDDON.
Nope it is saying they are PART OF.
Not "THE" first resurrection.
Keep reading and it differentiates First and second resurrection.
It all flows together...but some need it twisted.
Help them Lord.
What a mess