But then, where did you get your theology from? Do you call yourself a Christian? If so how can you since the foundation is that God becoming flesh and died in our place--we repent and believe on Him and we receive eternal life, also the gift of eternal life and a personal relationship with Him. Do you believe this?
What did Jesus say about HIMSELF?
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But then, where did you get your theology from? Do you call yourself a Christian? If so how can you since the foundation is that God becoming flesh and died in our place--we repent and believe on Him and we receive eternal life, also the gift of eternal life and a personal relationship with Him. Do you believe this?
I"m not sure what point your trying to make Webers as it isn't clear. In a sentence would you be able to explain your point? For instance this:
"But there's a catch. People cannot have eternal life a la carte as it can only
be had by having Christ too seeing as he is, in some mysterious way, the
very existence of eternal life even as his Father is the very existence of
eternal life."
Something we agree on! The false doctrine of the Immortality of the Soul has it's roots in paganism--the Roman Catholics got it from them and the Protestants got it from the Roman Catholics--However, how it continues on in our mainstream churches since it clearly is a false and blasphemous doctrine is beyond me "God alone is immortal" Believers as clearly spelled out in scripture DO NOT receive immortality UNTIL the resurrection at Christ's Second Coming and Judgment of ALL!
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil."--2 Corinthians 5:10
We cannot be in God's presence WITHOUT our new spiritual body and the idea that it is the spirit that goes up to heaven is ridiculous. Truly and absolutely ridiculous--that anyone can bypass the judgment is a "doctrine of demons" that is spoken of in Scripture.
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This response shows plainly your immaturity, David--and your pride. I've proven you wrong with SCRIPTURE and you have nothing to refute it with except an attack on me.
Ad hominem: argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
ALL fanaticism comes from the isolation of scriptures. And I'll add to that, not carefully studying scripture for yourself.
Ad hominem: argument or reaction directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
ALL fanaticism comes from the isolation of scriptures. And I'll add to that, not carefully studying scripture for yourself.
i'm such a sinner - please forgive me and when you write your book on truth, please send me a copy.
Crazy Crazy
don't call me lazy
His Truth found me
not to be lazy
i received His Word
and believed what i heard
never add or take away
for pride will slay
religion is for the dungeon
i had my share
not a good place to be
i would not dare
every word brings life
and cuts like a knife
removing the foreskin
of religion
Crazy Crazy
don't call me lazy
His Truth found me
not to be lazy
i received His Word
and believed what i heard
never add or take away
for pride will slay
religion is for the dungeon
i had my share
not a good place to be
i would not dare
every word brings life
and cuts like a knife
removing the foreskin
of religion
IBG,
I'm not sure what you mean--Jesus said He was in the Father and the Father was in Him. You are right that the Son died as a man, not the Father. But what is your point? I still feel confused where you stand. God said in the old testament when asked His name,
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”--Exodus 3:14
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”--John 8:58
I'm not sure what you mean--Jesus said He was in the Father and the Father was in Him. You are right that the Son died as a man, not the Father. But what is your point? I still feel confused where you stand. God said in the old testament when asked His name,
God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”--Exodus 3:14
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”--John 8:58
his claims about himself are fulfillment of the prophecies beforehand to understand what he was saying of himself one needs to hear and acknowledge the prophets
“Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”
Isaiah 43:8-11, 13, 15, 18-19 KJV
When you read prophecy like this you begin to realize what exactly Jesus eas saying about himself then the epistles make it concrete
“And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:11 KJV
There is one Lord and he’s always been speaking of himself so man would know him when he came
“Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears.
Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth.
Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
I am the Lord, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert.”
Isaiah 43:8-11, 13, 15, 18-19 KJV
When you read prophecy like this you begin to realize what exactly Jesus eas saying about himself then the epistles make it concrete
“And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:11 KJV
There is one Lord and he’s always been speaking of himself so man would know him when he came
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You said: "his claims about himself are fulfillment of the prophecies beforehand to understand what he was saying of himself one needs to hear and acknowledge the prophets"
If HE is the Word, and HE is, how could it be any other way...........
What JW's and others reject thru unbelief is the Eternal Theme from Genesis to Revelation.
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7
Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20:21-23
Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” ’ ” So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
The LORD says: I AM the Resurrection and the LIFE - John 11:25
If HE is the Word, and HE is, how could it be any other way...........
What JW's and others reject thru unbelief is the Eternal Theme from Genesis to Revelation.
Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. Genesis 2:7
Again Jesus said to them, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent Me, so also I am sending you.” When He had said this, He breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you withhold forgiveness from anyone, it is withheld.” John 20:21-23
Also He said to me, “Prophesy to the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live.” ’ ” So I prophesied as He commanded me, and breath came into them, and they lived, and stood upon their feet, an exceedingly great army.
The LORD says: I AM the Resurrection and the LIFE - John 11:25
IBG,
Unfortunately, the first sin man was tempted with "And you will be like God knowing good from evil" .
I believe, Christians should stand firmly on the Word of God and defend it. However on every forum without exception we seem to come to fisticuffs, rather than matter-of-factly stating our positions (vs opinions), since it is God who opens men's hearts and the Holy Spirit who reveals truth, we are merely the conveyance--some of us more reliable conveyances than others; some an ox drawn cart, with rickety wheels, others chariots of iron--and others in between. What's curious is those less versed in scripture seem to have more faith in their being right!
Unfortunately, the first sin man was tempted with "And you will be like God knowing good from evil" .
I believe, Christians should stand firmly on the Word of God and defend it. However on every forum without exception we seem to come to fisticuffs, rather than matter-of-factly stating our positions (vs opinions), since it is God who opens men's hearts and the Holy Spirit who reveals truth, we are merely the conveyance--some of us more reliable conveyances than others; some an ox drawn cart, with rickety wheels, others chariots of iron--and others in between. What's curious is those less versed in scripture seem to have more faith in their being right!
.
Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
The 10th chapter of John begins with what appears to be a community
stockyard where large numbers of sheep from all over are penned when they
aren't out to pasture; probably during winter when grasses might be scarce.
It also appears that more than one shepherd is keeping sheep there; and
then in Spring, when the weather begins warming and grasses are greening
up, the shepherds come to round up their flocks and move them out to
pasture.
One of the shepherds in this story stands out. He apparently has a vested
interest in his sheep because he bought and paid for them out of his own
pocket whereas the other shepherds are seasonal wranglers, i.e. employees.
The exceptional shepherd in the story is personal with his sheep, and has
even given each individual head a pet name; and the sheep have somehow
memorized their own names, which makes it easier for Mr.Exceptional to cull
his sheep from the stockyard without inadvertently taking another man's
sheep by mistake.
Mr.Exceptional's sheep not only know their own names, but they are familiar
enough with the timbre of his voice to recognize it from among all the other
shepherds. This suggests to me that this particular shepherd continually
communes with his sheep along the trail to pasture and also when they're
settled down for the night too. I wouldn't be surprised if he sang to his
sheep like cowboys sometimes do to calm the nerves of the cattle under
their care.
Then the scene shifts to the outdoors, a ways off from the stockyard. The
sheep are bedded down for the night under circumstances where the only
way that predators can get to the sheep is past Mr.Exceptional himself, i.e.
over his dead body, so to speak. The location could be a cave, or a small box
canyon with high walls: anything would do just so long as there is only one
way in and one way out.
• John 10:11 . . I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life
for the sheep.
The thing to note is that the quality of Mr.Exceptional's dedication, his
competency, and his reliability is so high that he can confidently guarantee
that any, and every, sheep seeking shelter in his stronghold is 110% safe
from all alarm.
• John 10:9 . . I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved
Were Mr.Exceptional a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "will be"
saved; no, he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That
would leave him some room for error. But when he says "will be" saved, he's
claiming a 0.0% failure rate. This shepherd is one tough cookie!
_
Re: What Did Jesus Say About Himself?
The 10th chapter of John begins with what appears to be a community
stockyard where large numbers of sheep from all over are penned when they
aren't out to pasture; probably during winter when grasses might be scarce.
It also appears that more than one shepherd is keeping sheep there; and
then in Spring, when the weather begins warming and grasses are greening
up, the shepherds come to round up their flocks and move them out to
pasture.
One of the shepherds in this story stands out. He apparently has a vested
interest in his sheep because he bought and paid for them out of his own
pocket whereas the other shepherds are seasonal wranglers, i.e. employees.
The exceptional shepherd in the story is personal with his sheep, and has
even given each individual head a pet name; and the sheep have somehow
memorized their own names, which makes it easier for Mr.Exceptional to cull
his sheep from the stockyard without inadvertently taking another man's
sheep by mistake.
Mr.Exceptional's sheep not only know their own names, but they are familiar
enough with the timbre of his voice to recognize it from among all the other
shepherds. This suggests to me that this particular shepherd continually
communes with his sheep along the trail to pasture and also when they're
settled down for the night too. I wouldn't be surprised if he sang to his
sheep like cowboys sometimes do to calm the nerves of the cattle under
their care.
Then the scene shifts to the outdoors, a ways off from the stockyard. The
sheep are bedded down for the night under circumstances where the only
way that predators can get to the sheep is past Mr.Exceptional himself, i.e.
over his dead body, so to speak. The location could be a cave, or a small box
canyon with high walls: anything would do just so long as there is only one
way in and one way out.
• John 10:11 . . I am the good shepherd. A good shepherd lays down his life
for the sheep.
The thing to note is that the quality of Mr.Exceptional's dedication, his
competency, and his reliability is so high that he can confidently guarantee
that any, and every, sheep seeking shelter in his stronghold is 110% safe
from all alarm.
• John 10:9 . . I am the gate. Whoever enters through me will be saved
Were Mr.Exceptional a so-so shepherd; then he wouldn't dare say "will be"
saved; no, he'd have to tone it down a bit and say "can be" saved. That
would leave him some room for error. But when he says "will be" saved, he's
claiming a 0.0% failure rate. This shepherd is one tough cookie!
_
yeah that was sort of my point prophecy was spoken by Jesus to prophets and they preached and wrote it down. What the New Testament teaches us is what they were talking about was the gospel and Jesus from the law to the prophets to the epistles it’s about the four gospels and Jesus Christ whomis the fulfillment of his words prior through prophecy God spoke himself into the flesh to be born of a virgin and become mans intercessor because we had no one worthy to intercede so “I Am “ became everything we needed from lawgiver , to priest , to prophet , to sacrifice , to scapegoat to atonement
he even gives us a new spirit and changes our heart through the gospel and making Jesus everything because he himself is the fulfillment of his word through the law and prophets all along all God was saying has now come , and now all he said in Christ is coming and will come in it’s time just as the gospel came when the covenant time was fulfilled
the subject of the focus of the ot prophets was that the messiah would be born of a virgin woman , he would be God manifest in the flesh of a man , he would preach the gospel and word of Gods promised truth , he would do miracles to show his words power and truth , he would give life to those who were held in death , he would intercede for all mankind’s sin. He would love perfectly in the body of a man as a man subject to Gods laws and words and then he would die in this form of the flesh for the laws fulfillment of death upon all sinners
he would then rise from death and send forth his witnesses beginning at Jerusalem into all the nations of the world to fulfill the word spoken way back to Abraham and words would stand forever as long as he lives they would save those who believe and then he would ascend to Gods right hand having been born “ the son of mankind “ because we had to have an intercessor or creation was lost in heaven and earth Jesus redeemed creation and saved us all now what will we do with that understanding ?
my point was that to really understand the New Testament and what it all
Means , we need to delve into the prophets knowing this first
“And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
Acts 3:20-24
there’s Israel’s laws and history in the ot but also hidden is a witness of the gospel and what God was going to do later in Christ the gospel is what all the ot was foretelling that was going to happen later , and then in the gospel there’s a New Testament and also foretelling of what is going to come
one Testament concludes with Christs coming to earth , and the other testament concludes with Christ returning to earth the ot has an explaination hidden within its prophecies and law of the gospel and what the meaning of a lot of the hard to grasp things in the gospel , means
it’s like a loud and clear witness of what things like melchezideks priesthood , sacrifice of atonement , Passover sacrifices , burnt offerings all of those things in the ot teach us what the things in the New Testament really mean and how they apply to us
simply I was saying the Old Testament foretells and explains the new and the new fulfills and reveals the old
he even gives us a new spirit and changes our heart through the gospel and making Jesus everything because he himself is the fulfillment of his word through the law and prophets all along all God was saying has now come , and now all he said in Christ is coming and will come in it’s time just as the gospel came when the covenant time was fulfilled
the subject of the focus of the ot prophets was that the messiah would be born of a virgin woman , he would be God manifest in the flesh of a man , he would preach the gospel and word of Gods promised truth , he would do miracles to show his words power and truth , he would give life to those who were held in death , he would intercede for all mankind’s sin. He would love perfectly in the body of a man as a man subject to Gods laws and words and then he would die in this form of the flesh for the laws fulfillment of death upon all sinners
he would then rise from death and send forth his witnesses beginning at Jerusalem into all the nations of the world to fulfill the word spoken way back to Abraham and words would stand forever as long as he lives they would save those who believe and then he would ascend to Gods right hand having been born “ the son of mankind “ because we had to have an intercessor or creation was lost in heaven and earth Jesus redeemed creation and saved us all now what will we do with that understanding ?
my point was that to really understand the New Testament and what it all
Means , we need to delve into the prophets knowing this first
“And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
Acts 3:20-24
there’s Israel’s laws and history in the ot but also hidden is a witness of the gospel and what God was going to do later in Christ the gospel is what all the ot was foretelling that was going to happen later , and then in the gospel there’s a New Testament and also foretelling of what is going to come
one Testament concludes with Christs coming to earth , and the other testament concludes with Christ returning to earth the ot has an explaination hidden within its prophecies and law of the gospel and what the meaning of a lot of the hard to grasp things in the gospel , means
it’s like a loud and clear witness of what things like melchezideks priesthood , sacrifice of atonement , Passover sacrifices , burnt offerings all of those things in the ot teach us what the things in the New Testament really mean and how they apply to us
simply I was saying the Old Testament foretells and explains the new and the new fulfills and reveals the old
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oh your one of those folks I see
how is that “ the wrong spin on scripture ?”
I’d need some clarification on that one
and what i do is between Jesus and myself what does that have to do with the post you asked what people thought about ?
there’s no benefit in arguing and having an attitude that creates conflict .
what I was saying was the prophets explain about the New Testament and who Jesus is pretty simple maybe a better example for you
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
Isaiah 9:6-8
that’s prophecy and then you have fulfillment in the gospel
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
… He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
…But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1-5, 10, 12-14 KJV
prophecy makes sense of things in the nt like God being manifest in the flesh of Jesus Christ is what I was saying
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
how is that “ the wrong spin on scripture ?”
I’d need some clarification on that one
and what i do is between Jesus and myself what does that have to do with the post you asked what people thought about ?
there’s no benefit in arguing and having an attitude that creates conflict .
what I was saying was the prophets explain about the New Testament and who Jesus is pretty simple maybe a better example for you
“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder:
and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
Isaiah 9:6-8
that’s prophecy and then you have fulfillment in the gospel
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
… He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
…But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
John 1:1-5, 10, 12-14 KJV
prophecy makes sense of things in the nt like God being manifest in the flesh of Jesus Christ is what I was saying
“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit,
seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.”
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
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