About the book of Job
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God is the one who brings it up, not Satan.
Just read it again and try to forget what the Sunday school pamphlets say. “Sometimes we suffer, we ask God why and he doesn’t answer but remember he never answered Job either…” blah blah blah. This is a lie from hell.
Job did everything short of cursing God. Why, I wish I were never born etc.
The final friend, the young one gives us a hint, essentially saying how dare you question God. Then God speaks answering Job very clearly, for 2 chapters he’s basically saying how dare you question me, we’re you there when I…
Then as I said, Job repents and basically says I had of heard of thee but didn’t know you.
It’s a story of refining by fire not exemplary faith. Read it again.
Just read it again and try to forget what the Sunday school pamphlets say. “Sometimes we suffer, we ask God why and he doesn’t answer but remember he never answered Job either…” blah blah blah. This is a lie from hell.
Job did everything short of cursing God. Why, I wish I were never born etc.
The final friend, the young one gives us a hint, essentially saying how dare you question God. Then God speaks answering Job very clearly, for 2 chapters he’s basically saying how dare you question me, we’re you there when I…
Then as I said, Job repents and basically says I had of heard of thee but didn’t know you.
It’s a story of refining by fire not exemplary faith. Read it again.
Agreed with everything except this. Job definitely cursed God:
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
What does it mean to curse someone in the OT hebrew?
1288
01288 barak {baw-rak'}
a primitive root; TWOT - 285; v
AV - bless 302, salute 5, curse 4, blaspheme 2, blessing 2, praised 2,
kneel down 2, congratulate 1, kneel 1, make to kneel 1, misc 8; 330
1) to bless, kneel
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to kneel
1a2) to bless
1b) (Niphal) to be blessed, bless oneself
1c) (Piel) to bless
1d) (Pual) to be blessed, be adored
1e) (Hiphil) to cause to kneel
1f) (Hithpael) to bless oneself
2) (TWOT) to praise, salute, curse
Now, the tense of the verb "curse" in this verse is Piel:
1c) (Piel) to bless
And thus the meaning of the verb is to "bless".
Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action as well as it also implies a repeated action meaning it is usually done more than once. In this case someone will “bless” God more than once.
OT:1288
barak (baw-rak'); a primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):
Lexicon:
"It is properly used of persons, and is transferred to curses and impious words against God." This specific definition for the word in question is found in Job 1:5, 1:11 and Job 2:5.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
So what Satan literally said was:
"he will speak impious words against you"
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
im•pi•ous (im'pe-?s, im-pi'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Lacking reverence; not pious.
2. Lacking due respect or dutifulness: impious toward one's parents.
In today's terms it would mean Job spoke in disrespect to God, and about God.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Charging God foolishly would be equal to cursing/speaking disrespect and impiously toward or about God.
Eventually Job would committ these bad things and sin.
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
As Job's sons did, so would Job eventually do when his tormenting was more than he could bare. Let's look at how things transpired:
Job 1:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job is holding up very well after some very horrible things! Yet, this does give us a slight hint about what might take place eventually within this story.
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Again, very terrible events take place and even his wife thinks he should curse God! But Job does not! Job has not “sinned with his lips”….yet.
Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
Now we see that Job is having trouble dealing with what he has been through. He will continue through the rest of the chapter speaking very ill of his life and fortune.
After his friend tries to console him he begins again:
Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?
Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
“When I go to bed I should be allowed a safe and pleasant time but, no, God is there to torture me in my sleep!”
Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
“Even if I were innocent, God would prove me wrong. I am not guilty, but I no longer care what happens to me.”
Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”
Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
“When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth?“
WOAH! Verse 23 is quite a statement by Job! That if a man should die accidentally while being punished, that God would laugh at the trial of an innocent man. This means that Job feels God is unjust and cruel!
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https://www.learnreligions.com/what-is-a-curse-248646
Curses and Cursing: What Is a Curse?
By Austin Cline
Updated June 25, 2019
A curse is the opposite of a blessing: Whereas a blessing is a pronouncement of good fortune because one is initiated into God’s plans, a curse is a pronouncement of ill fortune because one opposes God’s plans. God may curse a person or a whole nation because of their opposition to God’s will. A priest may curse someone for violating God’s laws. In general, the same people with the authority to bless also have the authority to curse.
Types of Curses
In the Bible, three different Hebrew words are translated as “curse.” The most common is a ritualistic formulation which described as “cursed” those who violate community standards defined by God and tradition. Slightly less common is a word used to invoke evil against anyone who violates a contract or oath. Finally, there are curses which are invoked simply to wish someone ill will, like cursing a neighbor in an argument.
The Purpose
Cursing can be found in most if not all religious traditions around the world. Although the content of these curses may vary, the purpose of curses seems to be remarkably consistent: enforcement of law, assertion of doctrinal orthodoxy, assurance of community stability, harassment of enemies, moral teaching, protection of sacred places or objects, and so forth.
As a Speech Act
A curse communicates information, for example about a person’s social or religious status, but more importantly, it is a “speech act,” which means that it performs a function. When a minister says to a couple, “I now pronounce you man and wife,” he isn’t just communicating something, he is changing the social status of the people before him. Similarly, a curse is a deed which requires an authoritative figure performing the deed and acceptance of this authority by those hearing it.
Curses and Cursing: What Is a Curse?
By Austin Cline
Updated June 25, 2019
A curse is the opposite of a blessing: Whereas a blessing is a pronouncement of good fortune because one is initiated into God’s plans, a curse is a pronouncement of ill fortune because one opposes God’s plans. God may curse a person or a whole nation because of their opposition to God’s will. A priest may curse someone for violating God’s laws. In general, the same people with the authority to bless also have the authority to curse.
Types of Curses
In the Bible, three different Hebrew words are translated as “curse.” The most common is a ritualistic formulation which described as “cursed” those who violate community standards defined by God and tradition. Slightly less common is a word used to invoke evil against anyone who violates a contract or oath. Finally, there are curses which are invoked simply to wish someone ill will, like cursing a neighbor in an argument.
The Purpose
Cursing can be found in most if not all religious traditions around the world. Although the content of these curses may vary, the purpose of curses seems to be remarkably consistent: enforcement of law, assertion of doctrinal orthodoxy, assurance of community stability, harassment of enemies, moral teaching, protection of sacred places or objects, and so forth.
As a Speech Act
A curse communicates information, for example about a person’s social or religious status, but more importantly, it is a “speech act,” which means that it performs a function. When a minister says to a couple, “I now pronounce you man and wife,” he isn’t just communicating something, he is changing the social status of the people before him. Similarly, a curse is a deed which requires an authoritative figure performing the deed and acceptance of this authority by those hearing it.
(THE END - IT WAS TOO LONG)
Curse and Christianity
Although the precise term isn’t generally used in the Christian context, the concept plays a central role in Christian theology. According to Jewish tradition, Adam and Eve are cursed by God for their disobedience. All of humanity, according to Christian tradition, is thus cursed with Original Sin. Jesus, in turn, takes this curse on himself in order to redeem humanity.
As a Sign of Weakness
A “curse” is not something which is issued by someone with military, political, or physical power over the person being cursed. Someone with that sort of power will almost always use it when seeking to maintain order or punish. Curses are used by those without significant social power or who simply lack power over those they wish to curse (such as a stronger military enemy).
Curse and Christianity
Although the precise term isn’t generally used in the Christian context, the concept plays a central role in Christian theology. According to Jewish tradition, Adam and Eve are cursed by God for their disobedience. All of humanity, according to Christian tradition, is thus cursed with Original Sin. Jesus, in turn, takes this curse on himself in order to redeem humanity.
As a Sign of Weakness
A “curse” is not something which is issued by someone with military, political, or physical power over the person being cursed. Someone with that sort of power will almost always use it when seeking to maintain order or punish. Curses are used by those without significant social power or who simply lack power over those they wish to curse (such as a stronger military enemy).
The book of Job is encouraging because we can see a man who keeps talking to God whatever may happen, good or bad. And he doesn’t stop expressing himself and complaining and thus helping himself and having a fighting spirit and never renouncing. It doesn’t mean it is easy but it builds up our mental strength. And we need to develop our mental strength to survive.
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Once again, I agree he repents but I am going to repeat my answer:
He repents , of course, because he didn't know what was on, but he kept faithful and he is one of the few faithful people of the Bible which means a lot. But he never acted badly, and thus he was right and he complained because he was suffering and he was used to receiving God's protection which was not the case when the devil attacked him. Twice God invites him to listen to him by saying please which is quite unusual for God towards a human being and he received a lot more and God said his companions were wrong and he put their fate in Job's hands. it is a huge issue going far above what human beings can imagine because it was a trial between God and the devil, Job was just a piece or a pawn because he didn't know anything but in fact he was the main piece who demonstrated that God was right and the devil a liar. There is no such a trial in the Bible. With Jesus, it's different because he was perfect and he knew what was on and he was on a mission. He had all the elements. Thus, Job is the best example in the Bible for normal people and for those who are in big trouble to keep strong whatever may happen even if it is really hard or nearly impossible.
Different ways of thinking! Think why Job is in the Bible: there are not many human beings who can talk directly to God in such a way!
He repents , of course, because he didn't know what was on, but he kept faithful and he is one of the few faithful people of the Bible which means a lot. But he never acted badly, and thus he was right and he complained because he was suffering and he was used to receiving God's protection which was not the case when the devil attacked him. Twice God invites him to listen to him by saying please which is quite unusual for God towards a human being and he received a lot more and God said his companions were wrong and he put their fate in Job's hands. it is a huge issue going far above what human beings can imagine because it was a trial between God and the devil, Job was just a piece or a pawn because he didn't know anything but in fact he was the main piece who demonstrated that God was right and the devil a liar. There is no such a trial in the Bible. With Jesus, it's different because he was perfect and he knew what was on and he was on a mission. He had all the elements. Thus, Job is the best example in the Bible for normal people and for those who are in big trouble to keep strong whatever may happen even if it is really hard or nearly impossible.
Different ways of thinking! Think why Job is in the Bible: there are not many human beings who can talk directly to God in such a way!
We are not to live in fear- Job-c3 v25
Job Laments His Birth
…24I sigh when food is put before me, and my groans pour out like water. 25For the thing I feared has overtaken me, and what I dreaded has befallen me. 26I am not at ease or quiet; I have no rest, for trouble has come.”…
Berean Study Bible · Download
Job Laments His Birth
…24I sigh when food is put before me, and my groans pour out like water. 25For the thing I feared has overtaken me, and what I dreaded has befallen me. 26I am not at ease or quiet; I have no rest, for trouble has come.”…
Berean Study Bible · Download
Think about Job’s mental strength: the devil himself played with him like a cat with a mouse, gradually increasing his attacks, striking him every time with more violence starting with everything he had and after that killing his children and striking his body : do you know what it means to suffer day and night without being able to sleep? I hope you will never be in such a situation! How would you react? Most people want to die! And it was not enough as his wife rejected him and his companions were against him and struck him instead of helping him! And he kept asking for help again and again complaining instead of killing himself! Is that fear?
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I have read so many times the book of Job to answer people about it that I know all the context. It is easy to forget the context and just take words out of it! But when people know the context it doesn’t work!
And anyway remember what god himself says about job that there is no one like him on earth!
And anyway remember what god himself says about job that there is no one like him on earth!
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I understand your reaction, there is no problem. I am always interested in what people say as I always answer them! They can agree or disagree, no problem! The problem here is not reading it is living! If one day you get into big trouble (physical or mental or both and you are not responsible at all) you may understand or not. But like in the case of Job it is necessary to pay a high price! So maybe it is better not to understand because sometimes you survive sometimes not!
" If one day you get into big trouble (physical or mental or both and you are not responsible at all) "
Not true for a person hidden in Christ, and Job was not. This is the day they all longed for.
He promises to protect His own, and He keeps His promises.
Concern for what "might" happen misses the mark.
best wishes
Not true for a person hidden in Christ, and Job was not. This is the day they all longed for.
He promises to protect His own, and He keeps His promises.
Concern for what "might" happen misses the mark.
best wishes
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Let’s give examples : let’s think about Jesus’ reaction just before he got caught and killed and he knew it ; let’s think about the reactions of Jesus’ disciples who fled when Jesus was killed and they knew and they were told and they were prepared by Jesus ; let’s think about the reactions of the Christians who were persecuted by the Roman empire and who died as martyrs in terrible pain and they knew it ; let’s think about people who get a cancer or any disease which reduce gradually your abilities with terrible pains for the terminally ill and they know it ; let’s think about the people who commit suicide because there are in such a stress that they don’t find any other issue.
But it is nothing compared to what Job suffered because the devil acted viciously and destroyed him gradually stage by stage and Job knew it was abnormal but he couldn’t understand what was on.
Moreover, how is it possible to attack faithful ones who are approved by God himself knowing that God condemned Job’s three companions because they spoke against him and God himself ? I would never do that ! Would it means finding oneself fighting against God himself ? I would never do that ! Many did and they paid for that !
But it is nothing compared to what Job suffered because the devil acted viciously and destroyed him gradually stage by stage and Job knew it was abnormal but he couldn’t understand what was on.
Moreover, how is it possible to attack faithful ones who are approved by God himself knowing that God condemned Job’s three companions because they spoke against him and God himself ? I would never do that ! Would it means finding oneself fighting against God himself ? I would never do that ! Many did and they paid for that !
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