About the book of Job

[JLG]

On one site where I was a Christian member before joining here, there was once a thread asking what a preferred Name for God was that we had... and I said El Shaddai. A Jewish member was offended and told me to get my own God... to which I responded, there is only One True God, and he ought to be ashamed for telling anyone to get a different one. So, yes, I would say some are bothered by our grafting in. But isn't that part of God's plan?

I am not sure if I posted this panel in your thread already. I began to scan
through the pages to see if I had when I came across the above post of yours

Job 19:25-27a

God Almighty
El Shaddai (Hebrew: אֵל שַׁדַּי‎, ʾēl šaday; IPA: [el ʃaˈdaj]) or just Shaddai is one of the names of the God of Israel. ... El Shaddai is conventionally translated into English as God Almighty (Deus Omnipotens in Latin), but its original meaning is unclear.

Exodus 6:2 « And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD (Yahweh) : »
Exodus 6:3 « And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (Yahweh) was I not known to them. »
exodus 6:4 « And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherin they were strangers. »

Yes God is the god of the PROMISE, the one that keeps his WORD.

 

[JLG]

On one site where I was a Christian member before joining here, there was once a thread asking what a preferred Name for God was that we had... and I said El Shaddai. A Jewish member was offended and told me to get my own God... to which I responded, there is only One True God, and he ought to be ashamed for telling anyone to get a different one. So, yes, I would say some are bothered by our grafting in. But isn't that part of God's plan?

I am not sure if I posted this panel in your thread already. I began to scan
through the pages to see if I had when I came across the above post of yours

Job 19:25-27a

It's easy to get offended when you follow human tradition instead of the Bible! Jesus needed a lot to get offended especially having in mind what the Jews used to do in the temple (making business). But they are not alone! It's quite common for human beings to mix religious matters and business! it's everywhere! But his service to God was a burning fire!

 

[JLG]

A different approach helps us clarify our own approach! When we think about what people say then we may think differently to our own thoughts!

 

[JLG]

Right, i'm going to read again each chapter having in mind what ewq1938 and DavidTree say.

As I said before, chapter one is clear : Job is not blaming God.
Job 1:21 : « Out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither : the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away ; blessed be the name of the LORD. »
Job 1:22 : « In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly. »
Here no mistake is possible : Job isn’t blaming God ! And the words employed are extremely strong !

 

[ewq1938]

Right, i'm going to read again each chapter having in mind what ewq1938 and DavidTree say.

As I said before, chapter one is clear : Job is not blaming God.

Yeah at first but he does blame God not too long after. I think it starts in chp 6 or 7. Near end of book God will chastise Job for his foolish rantings and Job will see how he was wrong and repent, then he is back on track like he was in early chapters.

 

[JLG]

I have been looking at that till Chapter 9.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Yeah at first but he does blame God not too long after. I think it starts in chp 6 or 7. Near end of book God will chastise Job for his foolish rantings and Job will see how he was wrong and repent, then he is back on track like he was in early chapters.

Hey bro....

This is what amazes me . . . if Job repents, how can Scripture say that Job never sinned? Such a mystery to me.

 

[JLG]

Yeah at first but he does blame God not too long after. I think it starts in chp 6 or 7. Near end of book God will chastise Job for his foolish rantings and Job will see how he was wrong and repent, then he is back on track like he was in early chapters.

You say chastise? How does he do that? i don't understand! And he puts the destiny of his associates in Job's hands! And nothing is said about the fourth associates who comes late! Is that a ghost or a dream?

 

[JLG]

Hey bro....

This is what amazes me . . . if Job repents, how can Scripture say that Job never sinned? Such a mystery to me.

Have a look at my other threads about Job. It will help you to understand, I think.

 

[ewq1938]

You say chastise? How does he do that?

Well, in order to chastise someone you begin chastising them. Start at chp 40 and read through the end. Here are some highlights:

Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.


Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?


Sounds like Job very much had done wrong, and greatly offended God. God challenges Job by asking who he is to reprove God and disannul His judgments! God asks Job if he has the right to condemn God and make himself righteous! Job has severely crossed a line and God really let Job have it! How humbling it would be to have God himself berate you for so long and so passionately!


Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

 

[NOV25]

When we start to read the book of Job, it is said that he had everything and he believed in God. But he wasn’t only a believer. His faith was alive, it wasn’t only words, he offered sacrifices in case his children act against God, not only by doing something wrong but also by thinking wrong. It tells us a lot about what it means to have a strong relationship with God. According to God, there was no one like him on Earth regarding integrity and going away from badness. When we listen to the news, we must admit our society is completely at the opposite, getting away from goodness and looking for darkness, whatever people may try to do. Everything goes wrong. It doesn’t mean we don’t have to fight, on the contrary, but we need energy and a good example such as Job. To prove the rare relationship between God and Job, God lets Satan get rid of all Job’s belongings except Job himself. Then he lost everything (animals, servants, children). At the end of chapter one, Job expresses his pain but also his total respect for God.

The story of Job is about a religious man (think Pharisee in the NT) that had not true faith. It’s a story of refining by fire. God in his providence allows satan to sift Job, to bring Job to true faith. In the end Job truly repents upon revelation. “I had heard of thee but now mine eye see”… Read it again, by God’s grace you’ll see it.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Well, in order to chastise someone you begin chastising them. Start at chp 40 and read through the end. Here are some highlights:

Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.


Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?


Sounds like Job very much had done wrong, and greatly offended God. God challenges Job by asking who he is to reprove God and disannul His judgments! God asks Job if he has the right to condemn God and make himself righteous! Job has severely crossed a line and God really let Job have it! How humbling it would be to have God himself berate you for so long and so passionately!


Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

I couldn't agree more. In my past, I have done a lot of berating, belittling, chastizing etc, so when I read the Words of God, the feel that I get through the Lord's Words feels is extremely familiar to me. And more, I also related to the whining and complaining of Job.

"The Patience of Job." - Frankly, I don't get that at all. Where does that phrase come from? And, why? Jesus didn't do any complaining at all as He was being led to slaughter, yet we don't have the phrase, "The Patience of Jesus."

 

[JLG]

First of all, think about Job having the patience to listen to his associates, but not only listening to them but also answering them patiently, repeating things but it seems they don't listen or better say they prefer to listen to their own words like empty speeches! Do you think Jesus would have bothered doing the same! he was a teacher teaching people, he had no time to lose! Remember what Jesus said about the religious leaders when he was on Earth! Job didn't understand what was happening to him, Jesus was on a mission on Earth, that's make a big difference! He knew he was there for a short period of time! On the contrary, Job didn't see any opening except death! And we could say more about it!

 

[JLG]

The story of Job is about a religious man (think Pharisee in the NT) that had not true faith. It’s a story of refining by fire. God in his providence allows satan to sift Job, to bring Job to true faith. In the end Job truly repents upon revelation. “I had heard of thee but now mine eye see”… Read it again, by God’s grace you’ll see it.

So why does God speak of Job as his servant and there is no one like him on Earth:
Job 1:8:... "that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth god, and escheweth evil?"
Why does Satan decide to provoke God using Job? Was Job not speacial to God? Does Satan don't mean that if he proves right about Job it will be the same with the rest of humanity? Remember all the angels were there watching! Think about Job offering sacrifices in case his children would sin against God in their heart! According to judaism, the Jews used to make sacrifice for something wrong they had done, not for something they would do in the future!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Think about Job offering sacrifices in case his children would sin against God in their heart!

I'm sorry, but I find so much of what you say to be confusing, as though I had never heard of such things. Future sin? The NIV says:

Job 1:5 NIV - "When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom."

Future sin? "Perhaps my children HAVE sinned" is what Job said . . . past sin, not future sin.

If anything, I find the book of Job to be more confusing than ever before. Frustrating.

 

[JLG]

I'm sorry, but I find so much of what you say to be confusing, as though I had never heard of such things. Future sin? The NIV says:

Job 1:5 NIV - "When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would make arrangements for them to be purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom."

Future sin? "Perhaps my children HAVE sinned" is what Job said . . . past sin, not future sin.

If anything, I find the book of Job to be more confusing than ever before. Frustrating.

I mean before it can be revealed or in case of so if they have done it it may be passed but if not it is to come. They were young and when you are young it's easy to do foolish things you repent after! So Job thinks that sooner or later they will do something! That's the difference with normal human beings, they always do after or when it's too late! That's human's history, human beings always wake up when it's too late!

 

[JLG]

if your parents or people you appreciate died, are they alive in your mind? Can you see them as if they were in front of you? For me the examples of the past, I mean those who had a strong relationship with god, are still alive and I speak of them as if they could have coffee or tea with me and we could speak together! I would listen to them and ask them questions instead of speaking to them! They would have so much to tell! I hope that one day it will possible! But now we only have the Bible to listen to them! That's where is the difference!
Remember you always ask good questions but "na'" don't stop it, keep going!

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

I mean before it can be revealed or in case of so if they have done it it may be passed but if not it is to come. They were young and when you are young it's easy to do foolish things you repent after! So Job thinks that sooner or later they will do something! That's the difference with normal human beings, they always do after or when it's too late! That's human's history, human beings always wake up when it's too late!

I see. And I was certain that you'd at least apologize to the Lord for completely misquoting Him and His Word.

I think I'm done watching this thread, as we're being led down a path that is not accurate. No need to reply, I won't be returning.

 

[JLG]

Strange words but people are free to understand what they want to understand and not by what they don't want! No problem at all!

 

[Blade]

Yes, you are most definitely wrong about this. Satan can -- and does -- harm the children of God daily, and God allows him to do so.

That is not written. So many things being said here that are not written. No where does it say God allowed Satan. Where is it written God is in control of everything? If so then all the bad things that happen are from God... remember He allowed it. Yet here on earth if I don't feed my baby the world knows I am a bad parent. If I blame God for all the bad things.. how can I even trust Him or love Him? Did you know I NEVER EVER have to test my kids my wife with something bad to see of the love me..wow I am better then God. Odd why would God have to test me for something He already knows. Is it not written by GOD out of the mouth of God that the thief comes to kill steal and destroy but I come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. To me its very clear about GOD and the enemy.

This is a fallen world we are living on his territory. You love the lord yet you can go rob a bank and God will allow it. Do we understand commission vs permission? "And the Lord turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before" Hmm captivity... turned the captivity of Job. So in all those moments Job was in captivity to the enemy. Prayed for his friends. Just these things.. do not get touched on. Can you go out right now and hurt someone rob someone? Do you think in heaven you can hurt someone rob someone? In Gods kingdom you can't yet here its not Gods kingdom. Christ even told us if this was His kingdom His servants would not allow Him to be turned over. And Christ aka GOD told us we have all power all authority over the enemy and nothing shall by any means hurt you. What happen to Job how long did it last? Yeah we don't know..we guess but could have been a week a month or few months we don't know.

To think we right now we are in right standing with God. We are righteous through what Christ has done. Anyway.. God allowed..again do we understand commission vs permission? Something that gets me is God never once told Satan about the hedge all round Job. Another thing is look what GOD said about Job vs what Satan says. So why did Christ come? To set the "CAPTIVE FREE"! Free from what and whom? Set free? Whom the SON sets free is free indeed! If your like Job in captivity..GOD never did nor allowed it. Christ has already set you free! Its once and always