Once Saved Always Saved is True.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
113
Accept Jesus into your heart ? That is not the gospel that Paul preached.
Abide in jesus

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
ET,

You are coming at this in the wrong way legalism vs Jesus clear call for us to OBEY out of our LOVE for Him.
1. Who is ET?
2. Who said EG said that we are not to Obey out of Love for God obeying the two commands which encompass all the law and prophets?

"By this we know that we love the children of God: when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome, because everyone born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world: our faith.…"--1st John 5:2-4
True believers will have works. You don;t claim you have faith in someone and NEVER do anything they say
Once Saved Always Saved has its roots in John Calvin who taught predestination. In the doctrine of predestination Calvin taught that even faith and belief were by God's divine act----man had no part in it. he changed the meaning of'man dead in trespasses in sins' and said it meant man was a 'dead man' and therefore didn't have the power to respond at all. He called even repenting and believing 'works'. Repenting and believing are no more a work than walking or breathing. The works scripture speaks of are the 'works of the law' However, we see over and over scripture telling man to choose, to turn, to repent and believe, and then to OBEY. A multitude of verses state God has given man free will to choose. OSAS has its roots in this idea that God has DECIDED who will be saved and who will be lost, therefore can never lose his salvation. Predestination is a whole other issue, but I want to explain where the idea of OSAS came from.
I actually never heard the term OSAS until I arrived in a christian chat room. We always called it eternal security, Eternal life. The seal of the spirit. The promise of God. The gift from above.

As cor Calvinist. They teach perseverance of the saints not OSAS. I grew up in a semi calvinist church. Predestination is true. Just not the way they claim it to be.

I was predestined to be conformed to the image of God before time began. Neither calvin or arminian or Augustine (romaismO can take away from that truth
.
It has been explained in other posts that legalism, that is following the law vs obeying God's commands out of LOVE for Christ are two different things. We see Paul and the other apostles and disciples in the New Testament calling believers to OBEDIENCE. They are called out many times for sin and unbelief. But the difference is we are motivated by our love for Christ--and we are told the Commandment are not burdensome.
it has been explained to you numerous times, that if you are obeying in order to earn gain or keep salvation. That is legalism

Legalists like to point to the jews in an attempt to make their legalism different. When in reality it is not.

Paul calls people fools who begin in the spirit and believe they must perfect in the flesh. Be it obedience to the law of moses. The law of some church or whatever rules and regulations one thinks they must follow in order to ultimately be saved.

Also someone mentioned preaching hell fire and brimstone--that is a separate idea as well and has nothing to do with taking the position of our need to both abide in Christ and obey His commands. I for one believe Romans 6:23 "The wages of sin is death."
The wage of sin IS DEATH

the GIFT OF GOD is ETERNAL LIFE.

You claim eternal life is not eternal. That it is conditional. And must be earned by obedience.

the very passage you quote refutes you works based do it yourself gospel

You hate calvinism? Thats fine. Don’t go the opposite direction of them like far to many people do when they disagree with something. The truth is in the middle.

there is a reason legalists call true believers easy believers who love there sin, and licentious, easy believers call true believers legalistic.

Its because the truth is in the middle.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,260
734
113
Once again, the passages you quote with the exception of the Corinthians passage, were written to the Jews, not church doctrine. And the Corinthians passage is not about losing one's salvation, but being disqualified from the ministry. Stick to Paul's letters for church doctrine.
Your Bible seems to have had a lot of pages removed. Perhaps I can sell you a copy of the MRV?
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,260
734
113
OSAS, the final answer according to scripture:


*
1. We are free to believe or disbelieve according to our own free will.

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 - "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
2. Righteousness/Salvation is based upon belief/faith.
3. Belief and faith are not acts of works.
4. We are not saved by acts of works.

Romans 4:1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness. “
4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works. 13It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.” He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not. 18Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”d 19Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace are you saved through faith, and that not of yourselves. It’s a gift of God and not of works, let any man should boast.

Acts 16:31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved”

Romans 5:1 "Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

*
5. Works are a reliable discerner of salvation

James 2:
14What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder. 20You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is uselessd ? 21Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness and he was called God’s friend. 24You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. 25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

*
6. Once His, God will never turn us away because of our works


John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 6:37-39 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise [never] cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.



to be continued... (dang 1,000 character limit)
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,260
734
113
*
7. Even when saved we retain our right to believe/disbelieve

Joshua 24:15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve

Deu 30:19 "I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. 28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servant ye are to obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

*
8. By disbelief (apostacy) one can turn themselves away from salvation


2 Peter 2:20-22 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world thru the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing to turn back from the Holy commandment delivered to them. What the true Proverb says has happened to them: "the dog returns to it's own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in Hebrews 6:4-6 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

2 Peter 1:10-11 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:22-23 In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister

John 15:1 thru 6 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

2 Peter 1:5-9 5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

1 John 2:18-26 18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. 21I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—eternal life. 26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,131
3,689
113
Your Bible seems to have had a lot of pages removed. Perhaps I can sell you a copy of the MRV?
The KJV is the holy preserved words of God without error.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
LOL, man do we have some problems! Wow, never heard that one about Saul/Paul.
Yeah? What kind of problems do we have?

BEFORE
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest... (Acts 9:1)
AFTER
But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. (Acts 9:22)

So it seems the only problem we have is that some here do not have a proper understanding of salvation. Eternal life is God's GIFT to the sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23). Justification is by GRACE through faith and not based upon anything else (Eph 2:8,9). And the gifts and callings of God are irreversible. That is why we have these words of Christ in John 11:25,26: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Does everyone here believe the Lord Jesus Christ?
 

Hann57

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2018
270
57
28
Abide in jesus

John 15
5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
You are ignoring the gospel Paul was given by Christ.

1Co_14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Bye.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You are ignoring the gospel Paul was given by Christ.

1Co_14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

Bye.
Amen

Producing fruit is a result of being saved. Not required to get oneself saved.

A non child of God is incapable of producing fruit
 

Laura798

Well-known member
Jun 6, 2020
1,716
593
113
The KJV is the holy preserved words of God without error.
One can't say only the King James is preserved without error since it is a translation of the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts as are many other faithful translations; to state it the only one without error is a false statement and cannot be supported with facts.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
I was saved by having faith in Christ without works.

I could of not had works of love to save me when I confessed Christ for I would fall short of that love not having received the Spirit until after I confessed Christ.

A lot people do not understand when Paul is speaking according to the flesh or the Spirit.

We are saved by faith alone, and not by works, when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do for we are in the flesh but God drew us to the Son because of our heart condition.

But when we receive the Spirit then we have to have works of love by the Spirit to have faith active in our lives.

Of course if we sin it can be forgiven but we must not allow ourselves to live in sin but living in sin can be forgiven too.

But when we leave this earth we better make sure that we want no sin in our lives and mean it.

If we live in sin we have no salvation.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

This says it all concerning a person that has faith and are saved but lost salvation but how did they lose salvation.

They escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of Jesus and knew the way of righteousness so they were saved.

And it had been better if they had not know the way of righteousness than to depart from so they were saved but fell from the truth.

This cannot be denied.

So I want to know if they had faith and were saved how did they fall away if it is faith alone.

So obviously there is more to it than faith alone and that is having charity, love in action, works of love.

Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

I was saved by having faith in Jesus and not by works.

But now that I am saved I have to allow the Spirit to lead me to do works of love to remain saved for love is greater than faith and faith works by love and love is the fulfilling of the law.

But many people that were saved neglected that love which the Bible testifies that it can happen if they do not do what is right and love properly.
Pardon me but 2. Peter. 2.20 does not say such a one is saved, it says they knew the path of righteousness but turned away from it.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
Charlie,

I meet so many 'Christians' in so called 'mainstream' churches, who have served for years yet do not know the foundational truths of the gospel--they prefer worldly friends and TV programs--programs I think even many unbelievers would not watch. I am not legalistic in this--I truly have no desire to watch anything that is violent or sexual or vacuous --I have no understanding how a person who calls themselves Christians can take part in this--also accepting of same sex marriage, girls becoming boys, supporting Marxists organizations (will leave unnamed). Christians who live like the world or who accept teaching that is not based in Scripture are so often from the OSAS camp.

"Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them."--Acts 20:30


For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but having itching ears, they shall heap to themselves teachers in accordance with their own lusts."--2 Timothy 2-4

And in this verse Peter is warning believers that they could 'fall from their secure position'--Yes, it is firmly secure as long as we abide in Christ and His Truth!

"17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position."--2 3:14-18
I dispute that those who believe they have eternal life are the ones who fall into worldliness, it is the ones who are unsure of their salvation, the saved today but not tomorrow crowd, not steadfast, up one day but down the next. Men of double mind saved/lost saved/lost.

They are like the followers of baal shuffling back and forth flogging each other along.

We are SURE who we are, we are the redeemed of the Lord.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
Not many, especially in the America’s (well maybe South America). But brothers and sisters in China and in the Middle East bare their cross daily. Many die because of it
Indeed they do, many have spent many years in cruel penal servitude and these are PENTECOSTAL christians mind ... Pentecostals are not flakes, I been saved and rejoicing more than 40 years.

It's the Pentecostals today who preach the bible and the cross and are persecuted for it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Indeed they do, many have spent many years in cruel penal servitude and these are PENTECOSTAL christians mind ... Pentecostals are not flakes, I been saved and rejoicing more than 40 years.

It's the Pentecostals today who preach the bible and the cross and are persecuted for it.
They are n not the only ones, and not all of them do.
 

Evmur

Well-known member
Feb 28, 2021
5,219
2,618
113
London
christianchat.com
But that's the problem, the abundant life preachers don't preach the Gospel.

In fact, Joel Osteen is recorded on the Larry King show saying we don't mention the Cross, the Blood, we don't want to offend anyone.

It's not just him, it's everyone of them! The abundant life so-called Gospel is contrary to the Cross of Christ in the way it is preached and purposed today!
Why do you listen to them then? I don't.

I listen to preachers who do preach Christ and Him crucified.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,163
2,177
113
I saw that movie with my 3 year old daughter in 1982. Don't remember either if he got an answer or not.
Elliot knew the call was answered when he saw the flower come back to life.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
998
270
63
Yeah? What kind of problems do we have?

BEFORE
And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest... (Acts 9:1)
AFTER
But Saul increased the more in strength, and confounded the Jews which dwelt at Damascus, proving that this is very Christ. (Acts 9:22)

So it seems the only problem we have is that some here do not have a proper understanding of salvation. Eternal life is God's GIFT to the sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ (Rom 6:23). Justification is by GRACE through faith and not based upon anything else (Eph 2:8,9). And the gifts and callings of God are irreversible. That is why we have these words of Christ in John 11:25,26: Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Does everyone here believe the Lord Jesus Christ?
Between the "before and after" wasn't there something of notice that took place?
Why do you listen to them then? I don't.

I listen to preachers who do preach Christ and Him crucified.
I listen enough to see if they are preaching the scripture! That usually takes about 15 minutes.

I am all the time asked what I think about so and so's preaching, I can answer them!