God wants us sober, not drunk

[Blik]

The word drunk can have different meanings to different people. To some it is only the effects of too much alcohol, but to others it is anything that adjusts the mood. Certainly the words of scripture adjusts our mood. In my studies of nutrition I have read that processed carbs makes us drunk, and that is not the same effect that too much alcohol has but adjusting our moods in a negative way.

Scripture often speaks of taking wine, and I have not found that one glass of wine in discouraged. In some cultures a glass of wine with dinner is part of the culture but when alcoholism is listed by race and cultures, those cultures do not have more alcoholism.

 

[1ofthem]

That video shows some stage hypnotism tricks. The power of suggestion, etc. The same type of technique was used in the Milgrim experiment (albeit in Milgrim's case for the application of pain rather than shared laughter).

I'm not sure what to think of it. Is it inherently bad? It's not dissimilar to the effects of going to a comedy show (though likely with more wholesome material being read). Sometimes people need a good laugh. Never understood the appeal of comedy shows myself, but goodhearted laughter is good.

The main difference is that they were pretty much mocking the Holy Spirit. That wasn't God moving on them in that video.

Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland are deceivers out deceiving people just for money. They are fakers who prophesy lies and deceive others who have no discernment. Nothing about that is funny.

The concept of "drunk on the Holy Spirit" does seem contradictory, but on a deeper look it seems to have parallels with Plato's Allegory of the Cave and can make sense if observed as a euphemism.

In Plato's Allegory of the Cave, people were tied down and made to watch shadows on the wall. Everything they experienced in life was through these shadows cast on the wall by a fire controlled by prison guards. At one point, someone escapes their chains and escapes the Cave. They see things as they truly are, and not merely as the shadows. The sunlight blinds them for a time but they adjust and learn to see. After returning to the Cave to try to convince the other prisoners to escape their bonds and experience the world as it actually is, their tale of the outside world is met with ridicule and skepticism. These chained people still only understand the world as shadows. And worse, as a result of seeing the sunlit world the freed person lost their finely attuned senses of the shadows. Their eyes haven't adjusted back and they appear disoriented and drunk as a result of being "recalibrated" to a different plane of existence.

To appear disoriented (or drunk) when reintegrating into the realm of shadows can make sense. We see Paul become literally blinded by his experience. Maybe there's room for something there? I'm still thinking on this one.

And I don't know about Plato and all that....

The truth is there are deeper levels in the Spirit. There is such a thing as being filled with the Spirit. However, in order to reap these blessings people need to live in a way that God will move on them. You have to seek the Lord with all your heart and strength and walk in the Spirit and not the flesh.

Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland et. al are not willing to live a good clean holy life by walking in the Spirit. Their main concern is fleshly (money). They are fake and bring shame and reproach upon themselves.

None of that is funny. It is in fact a very serious thing to mock the Genuine Spirit of God. God is not mocked and unless they repent and change their ways they will reap what they have sowed. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God.

 

[RolloTamasi]

With all due respect, Rollo, I do not watch any posted videos anywhere. And lest you misunderstand, Charismatics are also believers. Just a little crazy. But the "Toronto Blessing" went overboard from the reports I read. Do you really think the Holy Spirit would have Christians barking like dogs?

"The Toronto Blessing is a supposed outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the people of the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship Church, formerly the Toronto Airport Vineyard Church. On January 20, 1994, a Pentecostal pastor named Randy Clark spoke at the church and gave his testimony of how he would get “drunk” in the Spirit and laugh uncontrollably. In response to this testimony, the congregation erupted in pandemonium with people laughing, growling, dancing, shaking, barking like dogs, and even being stuck in positions of paralysis. These experiences were attributed to the Holy Spirit entering people’s bodies. The pastor of the church, John Arnott, referred to it as a big Holy Spirit party. The moniker “Toronto Blessing” was given, and the church was soon in the international spotlight."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Toronto-blessing.html

I agree with you on this.
People like Todd Bentley and Mike Bickle are off the wall and making millions being that way.
They and their associated leaders are a sin for sure.
But to use the Toronto Blessing as an example of charismatic beliefs is wrong.
Is it fair to blame the 7th day Adventists for David Koresh and the Waco massacre?
No, of course not.
When people debate the 7th Day Adventists, David Koresh is never mentioned.

But Christians, especially Baptists, are afraid of charismatics.
They are afraid of those who speak in tongues, afraid to pray and actually expect healing.
They do not have any prophets in their churches.

Why don't we debate these things and get rid of the fear of these gifts from God.
You put down an entire way of worship because of one word, "drunk".
It opened the door for all of you to scream 'bloody murder on those crazy charismatics.

Well, guess what.
Jesus was charismatic.
He believed in all the gifts.
The Apostle Paul was charismatic.
He believed in all the gifts.

But people today don't believe.
Why?
What are you all afraid of?
Why does no one listen to post #20?
Afraid you may find some truth that you don't believe?
Don't want to shake off the old self you hold on to so tightly?

It's time to find out the truth.
It only way I can show you the truth is to ask you all to watch a Lakewood church service on you tube.
Then you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

 

[1ofthem]

I agree with you on this.
People like Todd Bentley and Mike Bickle are off the wall and making millions being that way.
They and their associated leaders are a sin for sure.
But to use the Toronto Blessing as an example of charismatic beliefs is wrong.
Is it fair to blame the 7th day Adventists for David Koresh and the Waco massacre?
No, of course not.
When people debate the 7th Day Adventists, David Koresh is never mentioned.

But Christians, especially Baptists, are afraid of charismatics.
They are afraid of those who speak in tongues, afraid to pray and actually expect healing.
They do not have any prophets in their churches.

Why don't we debate these things and get rid of the fear of these gifts from God.
You put down an entire way of worship because of one word, "drunk".
It opened the door for all of you to scream 'bloody murder on those crazy charismatics.

Well, guess what.
Jesus was charismatic.
He believed in all the gifts.
The Apostle Paul was charismatic.
He believed in all the gifts.

But people today don't believe.
Why?
What are you all afraid of?
Why does no one listen to post #20?
Afraid you may find some truth that you don't believe?
Don't want to shake off the old self you hold on to so tightly?

It's time to find out the truth.
It only way I can show you the truth is to ask you all to watch a Lakewood church service on you tube.
Then you'll know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

There is a lot of truth in your post.

I believe in the gifts of the Spirit.

The thing is there are so many false preachers, teachers, false prophets out there faking and bringing a reproach that we need to call a spade a spade.

When we see others out there faking... we that have discernment need to call it out for what it really is FAKE.

And I also agree that others should not discount Biblical truth just because there are some fakes out there.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

But Christians, especially Baptists, are afraid of charismatics.
They are afraid of those who speak in tongues, afraid to pray and actually expect healing.
They do not have any prophets in their churches.

Precious friend, NOT "afraid" of anything or anyone. We just "study"
prayerfully and Carefully ALL Of God's Word Of Truth, Which IS Profitable
For knowing God's Sound Doctrines!:

3 gifts Superseded By THREE Gifts

Of course MANY do not believe God's WORD Is PERFECT, Has COME,
And Is "MAGNIFIED" ABOVE ALL Of HIS Holy Name!

How about you, Precious friend? Has "IT (The PERFECT) Come" yet?

As for expecting healings?:

GRACE Word for infirmities

 

[ResidentAlien]

The Holy Spirit Laughter is VERY REAL and is DEFINITELY The Holy Spirit. So much joy…cleansing and refreshing joy - absolutely FABULOUS!

I’m very familiar with this Holy Laughter and is the reason for my name “Lafftur.”

I’d rather be drunk in the Holy Spirit and called a fool by people then to speak against the Holy Spirit and be called a fool by God.

I'm not saying it's not real, I'm saying it's not from God. You believe what you want.

 

[Pureness]

So who to blame for alcohol??

 

[1ofthem]

So who to blame for alcohol??

I don't drink alcohol but....

I don't think alcohol is the problem. Jesus even turned the water into wine

Getting drunk on alcohol seems to be the problem.

It's all in the way something is used.

People who get drunk, abuse alcohol for their own fleshly reasons.

 

[Pureness]

I don't drink alcohol but....

I don't think alcohol is the problem. Jesus even turned the water into wine

Getting drunk on alcohol seems to be the problem.

It's all in the way something is used.

People who get drunk, abuse alcohol for their own fleshly reasons.

I understand your view, but when your an adult you can drink alcohol. What makes one person drunk might not apply to the next person.

 

[1ofthem]

On the day of Pentecost people who passed by thought, they were drunk because they were speaking in different tongues which probably sounded like jibberish or that they were slurring their speech as a drunk would.

I'm sure they weren't telling stupid jokes and pretending to be drunk and laughing like madmen as they did in that video.

That is definitely not the Spirit of God moving on them in the video. That was/is a total fake mockery.

 

[1ofthem]

I understand your view, but when your an adult you can drink alcohol. What makes one person drunk might not apply to the next person.

That is my point exactly.

The Bible says not to be "drunk" with wine.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,"—Ephesians 5:17-18

I often hear these verses used to support the idea of getting "drunk in the spirit." However, it doesn't have anything to do with getting drunk; it means the opposite. Being filled with the Spirit is the exact opposite of being drunk; it means sobriety. We have so many scriptures that teach us to be sober and awake. I can't understand at all how some people insist God wants us to get "drunk" in the Spirit—unless they deliberately ignore all these scriptures:

"Be sober, be watchful; your adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour."—1 Peter 5:8

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, stay sober, put your hope fully in the grace brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"—1 Peter 1:13

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober."—1 Thessalonians 5:6

"But we, since we are of the day, let us be sober,"—1 Thessalonians 5:8

"For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith."—Romans 12:3

I think the term” drunk on the spirit “
Probably reflects on pentocost when people thought they were all drunk because they began speaking in many languages some then said “ these men are drunk “ mocking and so Peter stands up and explains

“Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:13-21‬ ‭

I don’t think it’s an accurate phrase but probably people reflecting back on this for a turn a phrase type thing one might say being filled with the spirit is to be “ drunk with the spirit “ as non believers perceived it to be there mockingly not actually saying to act drunk on a spirit but using it to express the idea

 

[Lafftur]

I'm not saying it's not real, I'm saying it's not from God. You believe what you want.

Holy Laughter from the Holy Spirit is DEFINITELY from GOD.

Satan does all kinds of counterfeits to create doubt and confusion…

HOWEVER, Holy Laughter from the Holy Spirit is DEFINITELY from GOD.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Holy Laughter from the Holy Spirit is DEFINITELY from GOD.

Satan does all kinds of counterfeits to create doubt and confusion…

HOWEVER, Holy Laughter from the Holy Spirit is DEFINITELY from GOD.

Where do see it in the New Testament? I don't recall being instructed to be drunk in the Spirit or laugh uncontrollably in the Spirit. It sounds like you prefer your experiences over God's word. I could be wrong.

 

[Lafftur]

Where do see it in the New Testament? I don't recall being instructed to be drunk in the Spirit or laugh uncontrollably in the Spirit. It sounds like you prefer your experiences over God's word. I could be wrong.

Yeah, you’re wrong…lol!

No worries, just ask the Holy Spirit for a drink and keep on asking! It’s just that simple but, ask in humility not with pride.

He gave me a drink from the Well just this past weekend on Saturday…I was in the very back at a Daniel Adams service in Fredericksburg Texas and sure enough Holy Spirit laughter erupted from my belly! Lol!

God knows I really love to laugh…

Satan can’t stand a Believer laughing!!! Lol!

 

[Pureness]

Yeah, you’re wrong…lol!

No worries, just ask the Holy Spirit for a drink and keep on asking! It’s just that simple but, ask in humility not with pride.

He gave me a drink from the Well just this past weekend on Saturday…I was in the very back at a Daniel Adams service in Fredericksburg Texas and sure enough Holy Spirit laughter erupted from my belly! Lol!

God knows I really love to laugh…

Satan can’t stand a Believer laughing!!! Lol!

Actually hun, theres not a right or wrong answer. Its a discussion thread.. God bless

 

[ResidentAlien]

Yeah, you’re wrong…lol!

No worries, just ask the Holy Spirit for a drink and keep on asking! It’s just that simple but, ask in humility not with pride.

He gave me a drink from the Well just this past weekend on Saturday…I was in the very back at a Daniel Adams service in Fredericksburg Texas and sure enough Holy Spirit laughter erupted from my belly! Lol!

God knows I really love to laugh…

Satan can’t stand a Believer laughing!!! Lol!

Whatever.

 

[Pureness]

Whatever.

God bless you hun, whatever issues you have ill pray for you. Bless day dear🙏🙏

 

[Lafftur]

Actually hun, theres not a right or wrong answer. Its a discussion thread.. God bless

There is a right or wrong answer when it comes to the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit can manifest in a Believer by causing them to laugh. It happens…and he is wrong if he thinks it’s not God.

He said he could be wrong - that means he doesn’t KNOW.

I pray he would know…

Dear Heavenly Father,

Deliver all of us from a religious critical spirit that denies and resists the Holy Spirit.

We repent and come out of agreement with all lies of the enemy about the Holy Spirit and ask You to seal, baptize and fill us with the Holy Spirit and Fire, in the Mighty Name of Jesus Christ- The Baptizer with the Holy Spirit and Fire, amen! Thank You Father!!!

Hallelujah!! Woooohooo!!

 

[Laura798]

"Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not get drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit,"—Ephesians 5:17-18

I often hear these verses used to support the idea of getting "drunk in the spirit." However, it doesn't have anything to do with getting drunk; it means the opposite. Being filled with the Spirit is the exact opposite of being drunk; it means sobriety. We have so many scriptures that teach us to be sober and awake. I can't understand at all how some people insist God wants us to get "drunk" in the Spirit—unless they deliberately ignore all these scriptures:

"Be sober, be watchful; your adversary the devil walks about as a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour."—1 Peter 5:8

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, stay sober, put your hope fully in the grace brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;"—1 Peter 1:13

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober."—1 Thessalonians 5:6

"But we, since we are of the day, let us be sober,"—1 Thessalonians 5:8

"For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself too highly, beyond what you should think, but to think soberly, as God has imparted to each one a measure of faith."—Romans 12:3

I believe it is demonic--I have seen videos of this behavior (included one below). I can't believe that anyone who is a Christian would participate in this--it is not joyful -- it is like watching people in an insane asylum--it's chaotic, disturbing; this hysterical laughter is not found anywhere in scripture. We must "test all things" to see whether they are of God. Where did you see Jesus or the apostles or the believers laughing uncontrollably? There are many false teachers and believers in our churches today. Can you imagine someone coming as a visitor to a church and witnessing this? "Wouldn't they say you are out of your mind?"

"But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.-"-1st Corinthians 14:40

What is Holy Laughter

..."The most convincing scriptural argument against what is called "holy laughter" is found in Galatians 5:22-23. It says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." If self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God, how can uncontrollable laughter also be a fruit of His Spirit? Revival leaders claim that being filled with the Spirit means that we are sort of "tossed about" by His whims. But the idea that God would make people act drunk or laugh uncontrollably or make animal noises as a result of the Spirit’s anointing is directly opposed to the way the Spirit acts, according to Galatians 5:22-23. The Spirit described in Galatians 5 is one who promotes self-control within us, not the opposite. Finally, there was no one in the Bible more filled with the Holy Spirit than Jesus, and not once does the Bible ever record Him laughing....

https://www.gotquestions.org/holy-laughter.html

Other manifestions (holy laughter similar to Indian Cult) http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/laugh1.htm

Yet another interesting factor is that Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh was called the "divine drunkard" by his followers.(32) Hundreds of people flew to India to "drink" from Rajneesh's "wine."(33) "Often referred to as being 'drunk on the divine,' Rajneesh encouraged his followers to come and 'drink' from him. Bhagvhan's (sic) spiritual 'wine' was often passed along with a single touch to the head. Many of his Sannyasins [disciples] would fall to the floor in ecstasy after their encounters with Rajneesh."(34) (Does this sound strangely familiar?! Something is wrong with the church when it starts to experience the same phenomena as the occultists.)