So I was on amazon when it suggested a book called "The Lost Gospels of Mariam and Judas" by Reverend Williams Williams. Its about two books found in the Vatican and have now just been translated in its entirety. The books said it was damaging to the church and the original translater died. Is this stuff valid? Im very much freaking out. Im having a major panic attack that these some invalidate the bible or Gospels in some way 😧
Book of Judas and Miriam
- Thread starter Kojikun
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Well when you have some time, another CC'er introduced (well told me about the youtube vids) me to this guy and he does a good job of walking people through stuff without being too condescending or stuffy:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeLDw8KQgqi6v_s-HXosnAXhOyQ26wDPS
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeLDw8KQgqi6v_s-HXosnAXhOyQ26wDPS
Read over Ephesians 4:11-15, with a focus on v. 14. The panic you feel is from being “blown by every wind of teaching”.
Instead of concerning yourself with heterodox teachings, just get your spiritual direction from the Bible.
Instead of concerning yourself with heterodox teachings, just get your spiritual direction from the Bible.
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I'm sorry to hear that. Your experience of Christianity is very much inconsistent with God's intentions; that's not your fault though.
Christianity is not a list of rules; it's a relationship with a Person. Perhaps your experience of relationships doesn't give you any good reference for that, and while I can't relate, I do understand. God certainly has no desire to send you to hell; if He did, He would not have sent His Son to die in your place.
Christianity is not a list of rules; it's a relationship with a Person. Perhaps your experience of relationships doesn't give you any good reference for that, and while I can't relate, I do understand. God certainly has no desire to send you to hell; if He did, He would not have sent His Son to die in your place.
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Koji, I was struck by your quote "God seems very willing to send (you) to hell and (you're) tired of depriving him".... and I've straight up thought the same thing at times. Why do decent people die and burn in a lake of fire for eternity because they don't have faith in Him? Why can you actually have the faith required but make some mistake down the line and burn in Hell? Why does some poor kid who as a teen is on fire with lust and can't help himself but burn in hell? And to tell the truth I disagreed with God about that thing. Is my own dad crackling in hell right now? He was a good man. He made his mistakes but probably no more than me. Am I going to hell because of my mistakes?
What I'm about to say is not biblical. I have often thought that because God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils we humans became immortal. So maybe all these questions are something God can't really do anything about? Maybe He can't kill us? Maybe death is not really a thing? That maybe it's .....I don't know - separation? A gulf like in the story of Lazarus? That the Lake of Fire is a fire of pain? A pain of doubt? A pain of regret? That maybe even our immortal souls have a taste of these things? Like we understand the true tragedy of a suicide or an unfinished work or an aborted child because we KNOW these things. We've tapped into them somewhere and somehow and our immortal soul GRIEVES to think you've disappointed the One True God.
How many unblemished sheep and perfect goats and fowl of all kinds and first fruits and gold and silver of all sorts have burned at the alter - at YOUR alter and it's all vanity. All of it. Thus the miracle of Christ. The blood sacrifice of His only Son because God knew you and I and all before us and all us now and all to come would fail.
So God is willing to send you to hell? no. God is grieved because we see. We tasted. We understand. Read Dino again and hold those things in your heart.
What I'm about to say is not biblical. I have often thought that because God breathed the breath of life into Adam's nostrils we humans became immortal. So maybe all these questions are something God can't really do anything about? Maybe He can't kill us? Maybe death is not really a thing? That maybe it's .....I don't know - separation? A gulf like in the story of Lazarus? That the Lake of Fire is a fire of pain? A pain of doubt? A pain of regret? That maybe even our immortal souls have a taste of these things? Like we understand the true tragedy of a suicide or an unfinished work or an aborted child because we KNOW these things. We've tapped into them somewhere and somehow and our immortal soul GRIEVES to think you've disappointed the One True God.
How many unblemished sheep and perfect goats and fowl of all kinds and first fruits and gold and silver of all sorts have burned at the alter - at YOUR alter and it's all vanity. All of it. Thus the miracle of Christ. The blood sacrifice of His only Son because God knew you and I and all before us and all us now and all to come would fail.
So God is willing to send you to hell? no. God is grieved because we see. We tasted. We understand. Read Dino again and hold those things in your heart.
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Well hello @Kojikun I read some scripture last night in Samuel that may be of assistance to you. It's rare that scripture hits me this strongly but perhaps that's where I am right now.
Idk if my occasional posts to you about what you wrestle with have helped in any way but here goes...
I want to give my personal struggles with what you deal with and times I have given up. Where I feel like I'm barely holding on and letting go is leaving my salvation...but I have given up before and fallen into what I "thought" was a bottomless pit but there was a net for me. Let's just say that I reallllllly want faith to be sight and in my frustration and impatience I've tried to "make" that happen. Not often and only a couple times but our salvation isn't just "up to us". The Lord undergirds us and holds us up in ways that we don't see.
I'm not encouraging ANYONE to "royally" screw up just to see how much grace the Lord really has for you. You reap what you sow and that is extremely dangerous and inappropriate. I mean when you feel like you can't hold on, even though something tells you that you can but you sort of "rage quit" in the moment. Not practicing a mindset of rebellion against the Lord consciously. I only say that I have tested the Lord in ways that have grieved the Holy Spirit and I haven't ever met anyone with a similar story and I know he loves us LOTS. The ways I've messed up he still is there and willing to correct me...is uh, well, something I don't really have words for. I'm only in that headspace when I have messed up seriously and I can't quite quantify it but I just know that well...the cross is more real in those moments than a late night attack by the enemy. That the Lord's love IS the real deal. Rarely something I get to connect to in the way that I mean...it's like something tragic happened. Yet Romans 8:28.
Maybe you're not "quite" there. I think the enemy is plaguing you with condemnation and you may have some sin in your life that you are being stubborn about and that is allowing the enemy to attack you in a way that is particularly unpleasant.
^It irritates me if someone says "well, do you have sin in your life?" In my mind I'm thinking..."doesn't everyone?"
yes, but there is a difference between being stubborn and holding on to sin. Knowing what you need to cut out and trying to make God fit YOU, instead of you conforming to HIM.
I'm not saying that's easy but when I do...a lot of this stuff falls by the wayside and loses its power.
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1 Samuel 22b-23a
"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry."
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1 Corinthians 3:13-15:
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (emphasis mine)
So with regard to your salvation. Do you have any proof that you are saved? Are the books being opened today? Have you heard the words "well done good and faithful servant?" I haven't. So that produces "some" doubt because I want this over and I want "faith to be sight" (2nd Cor. 5:7)
We have proof in faith but I mean the reward of a glorified body, Jesus' return, etc. etc.
So also though, you have no "real" proof of damnation either. You aren't in the lake of fire yet.
It is sometimes very unpleasant to be in a sort of "spiritual limbo" with the pendulum swinging back and forth between the two extremes but that's what faith is to me. There is a constant war between the flesh and the spirit. Do I want that to end? Sure. Of course. Yes, and amen. Has it at the time I'm typing this? No.
That "in between" space I can usually work to get to if I'm in severe doubt in the heat of the moment. These moments are fleeting and sometimes they last all night but it's similar to sexual temptation/tension. It doesn't "end" when you give in, I feel a loss and shame/frustration and the next day begins. It also produces doubts when we are not walking in power over sin. Why wouldn't it?
It's not easy. It might take serious life changes for some people that it doesn't for others. Like giving up technology. Or living with other Christians in a communal living situation that isn't "ideal". Yes, there are ways to do that in today's world but they require large sacrifices that many aren't willing to make. I get that. I myself question why God doesn't just remove the temptation.
Then again, 1 Corinthians 10:13:
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
If you choose not to pick up your cross and take the way out, do I think he damns you? No. One might think that in the moment, just like they might think that their tension/release is inevitable and impossible to resist. Those moments pass though. For me, it's when I focus on the giant stack of "the rest of my life" and take it in an impossibly difficult chunk that I stumble. This particular moment? Can I make it past this? I'm trying not to ask the question of why these moments need even take place at all but they do. I tire of being tested. I tire of being refined. My "tiredness" doesn't mean God just says "Ok, beam him up then."
Alas, rarely do I have these conversations in person and it is difficult to put it into text really. I pray the Lord translates what may be relevant.
Idk if my occasional posts to you about what you wrestle with have helped in any way but here goes...
I want to give my personal struggles with what you deal with and times I have given up. Where I feel like I'm barely holding on and letting go is leaving my salvation...but I have given up before and fallen into what I "thought" was a bottomless pit but there was a net for me. Let's just say that I reallllllly want faith to be sight and in my frustration and impatience I've tried to "make" that happen. Not often and only a couple times but our salvation isn't just "up to us". The Lord undergirds us and holds us up in ways that we don't see.
I'm not encouraging ANYONE to "royally" screw up just to see how much grace the Lord really has for you. You reap what you sow and that is extremely dangerous and inappropriate. I mean when you feel like you can't hold on, even though something tells you that you can but you sort of "rage quit" in the moment. Not practicing a mindset of rebellion against the Lord consciously. I only say that I have tested the Lord in ways that have grieved the Holy Spirit and I haven't ever met anyone with a similar story and I know he loves us LOTS. The ways I've messed up he still is there and willing to correct me...is uh, well, something I don't really have words for. I'm only in that headspace when I have messed up seriously and I can't quite quantify it but I just know that well...the cross is more real in those moments than a late night attack by the enemy. That the Lord's love IS the real deal. Rarely something I get to connect to in the way that I mean...it's like something tragic happened. Yet Romans 8:28.
Maybe you're not "quite" there. I think the enemy is plaguing you with condemnation and you may have some sin in your life that you are being stubborn about and that is allowing the enemy to attack you in a way that is particularly unpleasant.
^It irritates me if someone says "well, do you have sin in your life?" In my mind I'm thinking..."doesn't everyone?"
yes, but there is a difference between being stubborn and holding on to sin. Knowing what you need to cut out and trying to make God fit YOU, instead of you conforming to HIM.
I'm not saying that's easy but when I do...a lot of this stuff falls by the wayside and loses its power.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Samuel 22b-23a
"Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams. For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1 Corinthians 3:13-15:
"Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (emphasis mine)
So with regard to your salvation. Do you have any proof that you are saved? Are the books being opened today? Have you heard the words "well done good and faithful servant?" I haven't. So that produces "some" doubt because I want this over and I want "faith to be sight" (2nd Cor. 5:7)
We have proof in faith but I mean the reward of a glorified body, Jesus' return, etc. etc.
So also though, you have no "real" proof of damnation either. You aren't in the lake of fire yet.
It is sometimes very unpleasant to be in a sort of "spiritual limbo" with the pendulum swinging back and forth between the two extremes but that's what faith is to me. There is a constant war between the flesh and the spirit. Do I want that to end? Sure. Of course. Yes, and amen. Has it at the time I'm typing this? No.
That "in between" space I can usually work to get to if I'm in severe doubt in the heat of the moment. These moments are fleeting and sometimes they last all night but it's similar to sexual temptation/tension. It doesn't "end" when you give in, I feel a loss and shame/frustration and the next day begins. It also produces doubts when we are not walking in power over sin. Why wouldn't it?
It's not easy. It might take serious life changes for some people that it doesn't for others. Like giving up technology. Or living with other Christians in a communal living situation that isn't "ideal". Yes, there are ways to do that in today's world but they require large sacrifices that many aren't willing to make. I get that. I myself question why God doesn't just remove the temptation.
Then again, 1 Corinthians 10:13:
"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
If you choose not to pick up your cross and take the way out, do I think he damns you? No. One might think that in the moment, just like they might think that their tension/release is inevitable and impossible to resist. Those moments pass though. For me, it's when I focus on the giant stack of "the rest of my life" and take it in an impossibly difficult chunk that I stumble. This particular moment? Can I make it past this? I'm trying not to ask the question of why these moments need even take place at all but they do. I tire of being tested. I tire of being refined. My "tiredness" doesn't mean God just says "Ok, beam him up then."
Alas, rarely do I have these conversations in person and it is difficult to put it into text really. I pray the Lord translates what may be relevant.
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Yes. The "what do I give up" is the constant question. I dont want to give anything up (except for what God and I agree upon, such as pornography and gorey movies.) My eternal question is "Is this God convicting me to the point of fantasizing about my own suicide ?" Or is it my scruples, ocd or maybe even Satan? I've been told many times God would certainly not drive me to suicide, but I am unsure sometimes nonetheless. I tend to avoid blaming Satan for things like this as it always feels more proper that I take the blame. I just tend to think its either me or God. If it is God I pray he is straight with me like with the porn and gore thwt I know with no doubt it needs to go. Everytime I start feeling better about things, I see a "Christian" or one that claims that I shouldn't do "this" or "that" if im Christian. Than it starts all over.
There's a verse in Philippians 2:12
"....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Imma try and think on the rest of your post but that last one I posted exhausted me I'll be honest. I got sort of emotional (which is nice because that's rare for me) but I don't want to be flippant when I respond further.
Maybe later tonight or tmo.
No I don't think that suicidal thoughts are coming from God. I've wanted to die many times at this point the harder things get for me. My position is it's his decision. Let's say he "really" wanted that for you...he can do it. Lightning bolt, car crash, heart attack, virus, etc.
There are plenty of things that plague me like that from time to time when I think it's God. He knows what you know and what you don't according to scripture. So he knows that you aren't sure whether it's him or not and anything that is coercive or conning or persuasive in a way that doesn't address that is probably the enemy. It "might" be your flesh. I've had people tell me that they think it's all "just me"...which is hard to believe honestly that I'm capable of such fabrications in my thought life sometimes and not being consciously aware of it, but maybe? Either way I don't think it's the Lord.
Obviously he doesn't contradict his word and when someone is unsure of what a scripture means or whether the bible talks about something, reaching out is not a bad idea. I think Strong's is a useful tool but not for everyone.
I've gone on absurd tangents on a particular scripture off a few words and then I check another version and it's not there at all. When I check the Greek it doesn't exist. So it's just how someone translated it and it affected me that way. Not that they did it with evil intent or anything (idk), I just needed to go back to confirm that what I was drawing was correct. Definitely helpful for me sometimes.
It may be you or it may be the enemy, idk. For me, I think it's a percentage based thing...like a pie graph. Might be 1% me 98% God and 1% the enemy or it might be 80% the enemy 19.9% me and 0.1% God.
There's a verse that say the "eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the evil and the good" (something along those lines, I can reference if you want)
I feel like I need to clarify some of this though so I'll try and get back to you later. I keep retyping things and it's frustrating, it was a LONG day lol.
"....work out your own salvation with fear and trembling."
Imma try and think on the rest of your post but that last one I posted exhausted me I'll be honest. I got sort of emotional (which is nice because that's rare for me) but I don't want to be flippant when I respond further.
Maybe later tonight or tmo.
No I don't think that suicidal thoughts are coming from God. I've wanted to die many times at this point the harder things get for me. My position is it's his decision. Let's say he "really" wanted that for you...he can do it. Lightning bolt, car crash, heart attack, virus, etc.
There are plenty of things that plague me like that from time to time when I think it's God. He knows what you know and what you don't according to scripture. So he knows that you aren't sure whether it's him or not and anything that is coercive or conning or persuasive in a way that doesn't address that is probably the enemy. It "might" be your flesh. I've had people tell me that they think it's all "just me"...which is hard to believe honestly that I'm capable of such fabrications in my thought life sometimes and not being consciously aware of it, but maybe? Either way I don't think it's the Lord.
Obviously he doesn't contradict his word and when someone is unsure of what a scripture means or whether the bible talks about something, reaching out is not a bad idea. I think Strong's is a useful tool but not for everyone.
I've gone on absurd tangents on a particular scripture off a few words and then I check another version and it's not there at all. When I check the Greek it doesn't exist. So it's just how someone translated it and it affected me that way. Not that they did it with evil intent or anything (idk), I just needed to go back to confirm that what I was drawing was correct. Definitely helpful for me sometimes.
It may be you or it may be the enemy, idk. For me, I think it's a percentage based thing...like a pie graph. Might be 1% me 98% God and 1% the enemy or it might be 80% the enemy 19.9% me and 0.1% God.
There's a verse that say the "eyes of the Lord are in every place beholding the evil and the good" (something along those lines, I can reference if you want)
I feel like I need to clarify some of this though so I'll try and get back to you later. I keep retyping things and it's frustrating, it was a LONG day lol.