Sheol

[cv5]

8) It is a confession of faith in desiring a covenant with God, an appeal to God for a good conscience. Sinful men have only an evil conscience. The point here is the sinner is sick of his evil, he's sick of his sin. He is sick of his accusing conscience. He wants to be delivered from the burden of sin. He wants to be delivered from the guilt of sin, from the crushing intimidating fearful anticipation of judgment. He wants to have a good conscience. He wants to experience what Hebrews 9:14 says, "The blood of Christ will cleanse your conscience." Hebrews 10:22 basically says the same thing. It says, "Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience."

What is he saying? He is saying in verse 21, there is an immersion into Christ that saves you. It isn't an external ritual of washing. What puts you into Christ is not a water baptism. What puts you into Christ is a pledge to God, an appeal to God for a clean conscience. In other words, it's a pleading to be forgiven for what? For your sins. It is repentance, that's what it is.

What saves you? Not water baptism, but immersion into the ark of safety, who is Christ, in whom you go through the death and burial and resurrection and the judgment of God falls but it falls on the ark and not on you.

What saves you? Not some external ritual or external rite, but a heart longing to be delivered from the crushing burden of sin that plagues your evil conscience and wants to covenant with God to live an obedient life. And it leads you through the judgment out the other side through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. That celebrates, that completes the salvation triumph.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And here I am looking for scriptural evidence that backs up the claim that Jesus spent three days and three nights in Shoel/Hades prior to the resurrection.

You have either been looking in the wrong places, or skipping the verses and passages which spell this out. So to settle this issue once for all, let's look at the very words of Christ.

For as Jonas [Jonah] was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of Man [Christ] be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40).

What do we learn from this verse?

1. The prophet Jonah was a type of Christ in that he was in Sheol for three days and three nights (while dead in the whale's belly). Then Jonah was resurrected to go and preach to Nineveh.

2. The Son of Man is Christ, and He was prophesying about where He would be while His body lay in the tomb. Christ knew that He would die and rise again, and told this to His apostles and disciples. But somehow, they all forget this important teaching.

3. Sheol/Hades is in "the heart of the earth" or "the lower parts of the earth". meaning it is very near the core of the earth. And only God and Christ could tell about Sheol/Hades. So Christ was in Hades for three days and three nights before His resurrection.

4. So to sum up, we know for A FACT that the soul and spirit of Christ were within Hades, proclaiming ("preaching") to the spirits in prison how He had conquered sin, death, Hades, Hell, and Satan, when He hung on the cross and paid the full penalty for the sins of the world.

5. Sheol/Hades was a virtual prison for the OT saints since they had to await the resurrection of Christ in order to enter Heaven. So when Christ rose from the dead, He took "captivity captive" and tore down the gates of Hades by taking all the saints with Him to Heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

4) "...nowhere in Scripture are the souls of men ever said to be imprisoned. But these spirits are imprisoned.
Phulaké is the term and it is not, now listen carefully, it is not a condition, it is a location. It refers to an actual
location, not some condition of being imprisoned in sin. It is a place. "

Consider the passage I'm always pointing out...

...where the first of two "punish" words is parallel to Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth)... and the second of the two "punish" words is parallel to Rev20:11-15 (the GWTj point)... and these TWO "punish" words being separated by "TIME":


Isaiah 24:21-22a,22[23] -

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall PUNISH the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. [Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5]

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/PUNISHED [same Hebrew word as in v.21; this one being the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words, separated by a SPANS OF TIME].

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. [this verse is the MK age, which intervenes the two "punish" words]



= )

 

[cv5]

Consider the passage I'm always pointing out...

...where the first of two "punish" words is parallel to Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth)... and the second of the two "punish" words is parallel to Rev20:11-15 (the GWTj point)... and these TWO "punish" words being separated by "TIME":


Isaiah 24:21-22a,22[23] -

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall PUNISH the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. [Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5]

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/PUNISHED [same Hebrew word as in v.21; this one being the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words, separated by a SPANS OF TIME].

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. [this verse is the MK age, which intervenes the two "punish" words]



= )

Yeah I hear you. The thing is though Peter is speaking to entities that only existed before the flood. And I do agree with you that souls of the unredeemed are in fact in a sort of a prison. But what I'm saying is that the fallen angels from the time before the flood are in a different sort (maybe even partition) of prison. A very specific one, and undoubtedly the same prison as 2Peter 2:4 "Tartarus". Possibly the same prison that the Rev9 5th Trumpet/first woe/mid-trib "abyss" locust demons are released from. A particular prison only for these fallen angels.

You just can't get away from the rebellious fallen angels/sons of God undertaking deviant sexual behaviors with daughters of Adam scenario. And the fact of real non-human giants duly recorded in the Bible is quite indisputable.

The sons of Seth theory really doesn't have a leg to stand on.

 

[cv5]

You have either been looking in the wrong places, or skipping the verses and passages which spell this out. So to settle this issue once for all, let's look at the very words of Christ.

For as Jonas [Jonah] was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of Man [Christ] be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40).

What do we learn from this verse?

1. The prophet Jonah was a type of Christ in that he was in Sheol for three days and three nights (while dead in the whale's belly). Then Jonah was resurrected to go and preach to Nineveh.

2. The Son of Man is Christ, and He was prophesying about where He would be while His body lay in the tomb. Christ knew that He would die and rise again, and told this to His apostles and disciples. But somehow, they all forget this important teaching.

3. Sheol/Hades is in "the heart of the earth" or "the lower parts of the earth". meaning it is very near the core of the earth. And only God and Christ could tell about Sheol/Hades. So Christ was in Hades for three days and three nights before His resurrection.

4. So to sum up, we know for A FACT that the soul and spirit of Christ were within Hades, proclaiming ("preaching") to the spirits in prison how He had conquered sin, death, Hades, Hell, and Satan, when He hung on the cross and paid the full penalty for the sins of the world.

5. Sheol/Hades was a virtual prison for the OT saints since they had to await the resurrection of Christ in order to enter Heaven. So when Christ rose from the dead, He took "captivity captive" and tore down the gates of Hades by taking all the saints with Him to Heaven.

I would have to say that the Bible limits Jesus' proclamation of victory to these fallen angels in Tartarus. Jesus MAY have proclaimed victory to ALL departed or imprisioned souls: redeemed men, unredeemed men AND fallen angels.......everybody. But I don't think it's there in the text itself. I think the text limits the proclamation to fallen angels.

 

[Yahshua]

1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


1) Messiah was put to death in the flesh = Crucifixion

2) Messiah was quickened by the Spirit

[Quicken - Gr. "zōopoiētheis" = to make that which was dead to live; gives life]

2) Messiah was quickened by the Spirit = RESURRECTION

3) By which = On account of His Resurrection back to life

4) Messiah went and preached to the spirits in prison

----

The Messiah preached to the spirits in prison AFTER His Resurrection, not while He was dead...because He was dead.

 

[cv5]

Consider the passage I'm always pointing out...

...where the first of two "punish" words is parallel to Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5 (at the time of Christ's Second Coming to the earth)... and the second of the two "punish" words is parallel to Rev20:11-15 (the GWTj point)... and these TWO "punish" words being separated by "TIME":


Isaiah 24:21-22a,22[23] -

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall PUNISH the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. [Rev19:19,21 / 16:14-16 / 20:5]

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited/PUNISHED [same Hebrew word as in v.21; this one being the SECOND of TWO "PUNISH" words, separated by a SPANS OF TIME].

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. [this verse is the MK age, which intervenes the two "punish" words]



= )

Yes I think MacArthur is pushing his luck there. I think he meant that the term "phulake" in never specifically stated anywhere in the NT as refering to the souls of departed men (which is true). But conceptually, Luke 16 and Isa 24 etal. are crystal clear about this.

 

[SteveEpperson]

For as Jonas [Jonah] was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of Man [Christ] be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40).

Finally! Was that so hard?

Anyway, thanks. Still, keep in mind, there are commentators who think that probably meant Jesus's grave exclusively, and not Sheol.

But now I am reminded why 75% of preachers believe it was Hades. I had actually forgotten about this verse.

It still begs the question, did Jesus confront Satan directly while freeing the saints? Probably not, since in most of the passages I've read, it is Satan that confronts God, instead of the other way around. He is merely a pest.

 

[Laura798]

I'm not sure what spin you are trying to put on which subject.
Catholics hold the orthodox belief as do mainline Protestants concerning the eternal destination of the unrepentant.
They are not in error on this subject.

Annihilationism is a fringe or cult view.

"When you find yourself in the majority, it's time to pause and reflect."--"Mark Twain

It's not always good to be in the majority--millions died in the flood. only eight were saved. thousands died in the destruction of sodom and gomorrah--only three were saved.

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."Romans 6:23,

To say the wages of sin is not death is to deny Christ's substitutionary death in our place.

 

[LactoseIntolerant]

It is essential (to me) that I understand this concept (Sheol) and how it relates to the below text/Scriptures. So much of what I know about the Gospel revolves around the idea that I am trying to get to the bottom of below. If I am wrong, my bones will shudder out of false teaching. And it is True; I do not read commentary; I would much rather speak with any and ALL of you at ChristianChat (first).

@posthuman

@justbyfaith

What do we all think? When Samuel was summoned "up," was he in the same place as those held and waiting for the Day of Christ to put their Trust in Him? (See below.)

1 Samuel 28:13-14 NLT - "Don't be afraid!" the king told her. "What do you see?" "I see a god coming up out of the earth," she said. "What does he look like?" Saul asked. "He is an old man wrapped in a robe," she replied. Saul realized it was Samuel, and he fell to the ground before him."

Below, was Samuel waiting for the Day of Christ in this place called Sheol . . . Prison?

1 Peter 3:18-20 NLT – "Christ suffered for our sins once for all time. He never sinned, but he died for sinners to bring you safely home to God. He suffered physical death, but he was raised to life in the Spirit. So he went and preached to the spirits in prison – those who disobeyed God long ago when God waited patiently while Noah was building his boat. Only eight people were saved from drowning in that terrible flood."

Was Samuel waiting for the Day of Christ, to put his Faith in Christ so that he would be "made right with God?"

Romans 3:25-26 NLT – "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

If I am wrong about these things, then I have written a tremendous amount of material that is utterly wrong . . . Lord help and forgive me.

1 Samuel 28:13-14 is derived by the encounter with the witch of endor. Tainted unrealiable knowledge. They don't Prophecy with the Spirit of God. As per Leviticus 19:31“Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God. "

1 Peter 3:18-20
The context is preaching righteously and patiently. The preNoahide example is to emphasize there may be the few who will receive the Word (like Noah's family). A single person deserves Salvation as much as a nation.

Romans 3:25-26
The context of the verse is Salvation through faith. In the working of the Law, king David sent a general to his death because he coveted the general's wife - was he stoned? No. Solomon built pagan temples because of his wives - was he put to death? No. Noah got drunk - was he Deemed less Holy? No. They were not appropriately punished as they were all smeared by God and hold high positions in His Eyes. But is it fair? No, that is why his Only-Begotten Son was sacrificed for all men so all men receive salvation and mercy without holding high positions in the Eyes of God. (Rom 3:23)
As a prophet of God, I am pretty sure Samuel knew of Jesus. Just a conjecture.

Sheol as defined by modern day concepts.
Sheol is the hard-drive where all information in one's life is backed-up and there are 2 folders ("Life" and "to_be_deleted"). The living reside as information in the Computer of God (Gen 2:7 Universe world). That which stored on the hard-drive does not change (Ecc 9:10). At the Great White Throne, the folder "Life" is uploaded into the New Computer of God (Rev 20:12) , while the information left on the hard-drive is permanently destroyed (Rev 20:14).

 

[Nehemiah6]

It still begs the question, did Jesus confront Satan directly while freeing the saints? Probably not, since in most of the passages I've read, it is Satan that confronts God, instead of the other way around. He is merely a pest.

Jesus destroyed the power of Satan at the cross. So He did not need to confront him. The Gospel frees people from captivity to Satan, demons, idols, and false gods. But Satan will get his comeuppance in the not too distant future. Revelation 12 will become a reality very soon. But it seems like demons have already taken control of all world governments.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Jesus destroyed the power of Satan at the cross. So He did not need to confront him. The Gospel frees people from captivity to Satan, demons, idols, and false gods. But Satan will get his comeuppance in the not too distant future. Revelation 12 will become a reality very soon. But it seems like demons have already taken control of all world governments.

I love Colossians 2:9-15 - Here's the tail end of it as it discusses the defeat of Satan:

Colossians 2:13-15 NLT - "You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."