Who are the seven angels of the seven churches?

[ResidentAlien]

Some have said they are literal angels.

Some say they're pastors; however, there's no indication in all of the New Testament that any church had a lead pastor, or that that pastor's duty was to deliver messages. The duty of a pastor is to shepherd, for that is what the word "pastor" means.

I'd like to suggest they're prophets, forthtellers, messengers of the churches. The Greek angelo can refer to a human messenger, depending on the context. Prophet makes more sense than pastor.

Additionally, when we consider Revelation 2:20. Most translations translate it: "you tolerate that woman Jezebel"; or "the woman Jezebel." But the Greek γυναῖκα (gynaika) especially means "wife." For example: "Strong's Greek 113: A woman, wife, my lady. Probably from the base of ginomai; a woman; specially, a wife."

Now let's look at how the Majority Text translates this verse: "But I have this against you, that you tolerate your wife Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols." Now we see how it makes perfect sense that the "angels" would be prophets. And we can also see how this verse has particular importance today, with all the husband and wife "prophetic" teams about.

Wilbur Pickering's note on this verse from his New Testament based on the Majority Text says: "About three fourths of the Greek manuscripts read 'your wife' rather than 'that woman'. The main group that reads 'that woman' reflects a tradition that is full of obvious corruptions, and so does not inspire confidence. The original reading is doubtless 'your wife'.

 

[studentoftheword]

My view is
The 7 stars are Pastors or Bishops of the churches who are under Jesus authority ----we see the Son of Man is in the midst of the lampstands which are the 7 churches -----and in Jesus Right hand He holds the 7 stars of the 7 churches -----

So I say Jesus is now directing the Pastors or Bishops who are messengers for Him as He stands in the Midst of their Church ---the number 7 is God's completeness and wholeness number ----Jesus holding these 7 Stars in His Right Hand signifies Power and strength ----So Jesus is giving these people the power and strength to go forth for Him --


The scripture says this -----Revelations 1 AMP

12 Then I turned to see [whose was] the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands,

13 And in the midst of the lampstands [One] like a Son of Man, clothed with a robe which reached to His feet and with a girdle of gold about His breast.

14 His head and His hair were white like white wool, [as white] as snow, and His eyes [flashed] like a flame of fire.

15 His feet glowed like burnished (bright) bronze as it is refined in a furnace, and His voice was like the sound of many waters.

16 In His right hand He held seven stars, and from His mouth there came forth a sharp two-edged sword, and His face was like the sun shining in full power at midday.

 

[ResidentAlien]

My view is
The 7 stars are Pastors or Bishops of the churches who are under Jesus authority

Pastors aren't messengers but prophets are.

 

[studentoftheword]

Pastors aren't messengers but prophets are.

I say --------Well these Pastors are messengers of God as Jesus is holding them in His right hand -----so that is my view of the 7 stars ---- angel means messenger or delegate -----sent by God

Greek word for Angel
32 ággelos – properly, a messenger or delegate – either human or heavenly (a celestial angel); someone sent (by God) to proclaim His message.


Strong's Concordance

Greek word for star
astér: a star
by the figure of the seven stars which Christ holds in his right hand, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 2:1; Revelation 3:1, are signified the angels of the seven churches under the direction of Christ, Revelation 1:20;

You may have a different view and I respect that

 

[ResidentAlien]

I say --------Well these Pastors are messengers of God as Jesus is holding them in His right hand -----so that is my view of the 7 stars ---- angel means messenger or delegate -----sent by God

Greek word for Angel
32 ággelos – properly, a messenger or delegate – either human or heavenly (a celestial angel); someone sent (by God) to proclaim His message.


Strong's Concordance

Greek word for star
astér: a star
by the figure of the seven stars which Christ holds in his right hand, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 2:1; Revelation 3:1, are signified the angels of the seven churches under the direction of Christ, Revelation 1:20;

You may have a different view and I respect that

I agree, the "angels" are human messengers. But I don't agree they're pastors.

I can respect your view if you show me where in the New Testament that pastors are messengers. Why would the lord give messages to those (pastors I mean) who don't hold the office of messengers. Why would He in this one case say, "I know pastors aren't messengers but we'll make them so in this one instance."

I can accept that you hold to your view, but I can't respect it unless you show from scripture how you arrive at it. I only respect scripture, not opinions with no scripture to back them up.

 

[studentoftheword]

ResidentAllen ----your comment here ---I can respect your view if you show me where in the New Testament that pastors are messengers.


Well I say to you ---I don't have to show you anything -----I posted what I believe ----so it matters not to me if you only respect my believe if I prove something to you -----your approval is with conditions ---my approval of your view is without conditions ---you have your view and I have mine -----


But I will post this --------and I will say I agree with what is posted below here ---

Read all here ---
https://www.churchofgod.net/articles/marks-of-a-true-messenger-of-god/

scriptural definitions, designations, and offices of God’s true (human) messengers–often translated angels in the scriptures–are many and varied.

This is due to their particular gifts from the Lord which are given without respect to race, gender, national origin, or socio-economic status.

(Mal. 2:7; 3:1; Jn. 1:51; Gal. 4:14; Phil. 2:25; Rev. 1:20; 10:7)

Observe them below:
“And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.” Eph. 4:11.

Apostle: Defined as “one sent.” Special mention is here made of this gift as it has been sent and used by God through ages of the gospel day to begin great moves of His Spirit to progressively restore truths lost in the great falling away, and in this evening time of the gospel day, not only to complete the restoration of all truth, but also to lead in and oversee the gathering together of the members of Christ’s body into one fold (1 Cor. 12:28).

Prophet: One who speaks forth or openly the divine message–note: prophecy is not necessarily, nor even primarily, fore-telling. It is the forth-telling of the will of God, whether with reference to the past, the present, or the future (1 Cor. 11:4, 5; 14:3; Eph. 2:20).
Teacher/Master of the scriptures: Instructor (1 Tim. 2:7; James 3:1).
Evangelist: A messenger of good; denotes a preacher of the gospel (Acts 21:8; 2 Tim. 4:5). The evangelist preaches primarily with a burden for the initial saving of souls.

Teacher/Master of the scriptures: Instructor (1 Tim. 2:7; James 3:1).
Evangelist: A messenger of good; denotes a preacher of the gospel (Acts 21:8; 2 Tim. 4:5). The evangelist preaches primarily with a burden for the initial saving of souls.
Pastor: A shepherd; one who tends flocks, not merely one who feeds them (Acts 20:28 and 1 Pet. 5:1-2).
Exhorter: One who admonishes, exhorts, urges one to pursue some course of conduct (Rom. 12:6-8; Lk. 3:18).
Bishop: Overseer (Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Tim. 3:1-7, 11).
Elder, Presbyter: Other terms for the same person as bishop, indicating the mature spiritual experience and understanding of those so described (1 Tim. 4:14; Titus 1:5-9).

The above offices are sub-classifications of “true messenger of God” or “messenger of the truth,” each burdened for the specific work of their calling. Some gifts overlap. Not all believers are called to be messengers of God in the context addressed by this article (1 Cor. 12:29), therefore lack the marks of a true messenger of God:

 

[Nehemiah6]

Some have said they are literal angels.

That is the plain literal sense of that word ἄγγελος (aggelos), so why not stick with it? If they were prophets Christ would have said so. If they were apostles, Christ would have said so. If they were elders, Christ would have said so.

Why was it necessary to send angels at this time? That's the real issue. The isle of Patmos in the Aegean Sea (where John was) is about 35 miles from the Western coast of Turkey (formerly Asia Minor). For an angel this travel would be a piece of cake. For others it could have been a hazardous trip. So Jesus sent angels to the seven churches, and apostolic churches were aware that angels were watching them (probably watching over them). That is why Paul told Christian women to wear head coverings during worship -- "because of the angels".

We are not told what was the outcome of those letters to the churches. But eventually those churches disappeared. Many Christians there could have been killed under Roman persecutions.

 

[ResidentAlien]

ResidentAllen ----your comment here ---I can respect your view if you show me where in the New Testament that pastors are messengers.


Well I say to you ---I don't have to show you anything -----I posted what I believe ----so it matters not to me if you only respect my believe if I prove something to you -----your approval is with conditions ---my approval of your view is without conditions ---you have your view and I have mine -----


But I will post this --------and I will say I agree with what is posted below here ---

Read all here ---
https://www.churchofgod.net/articles/marks-of-a-true-messenger-of-god/

scriptural definitions, designations, and offices of God’s true (human) messengers–often translated angels in the scriptures–are many and varied.

This is due to their particular gifts from the Lord which are given without respect to race, gender, national origin, or socio-economic status.

(Mal. 2:7; 3:1; Jn. 1:51; Gal. 4:14; Phil. 2:25; Rev. 1:20; 10:7)

Observe them below:
“And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.” Eph. 4:11.

Apostle: Defined as “one sent.” Special mention is here made of this gift as it has been sent and used by God through ages of the gospel day to begin great moves of His Spirit to progressively restore truths lost in the great falling away, and in this evening time of the gospel day, not only to complete the restoration of all truth, but also to lead in and oversee the gathering together of the members of Christ’s body into one fold (1 Cor. 12:28).

Prophet: One who speaks forth or openly the divine message–note: prophecy is not necessarily, nor even primarily, fore-telling. It is the forth-telling of the will of God, whether with reference to the past, the present, or the future (1 Cor. 11:4, 5; 14:3; Eph. 2:20).
Teacher/Master of the scriptures: Instructor (1 Tim. 2:7; James 3:1).
Evangelist: A messenger of good; denotes a preacher of the gospel (Acts 21:8; 2 Tim. 4:5). The evangelist preaches primarily with a burden for the initial saving of souls.

Teacher/Master of the scriptures: Instructor (1 Tim. 2:7; James 3:1).
Evangelist: A messenger of good; denotes a preacher of the gospel (Acts 21:8; 2 Tim. 4:5). The evangelist preaches primarily with a burden for the initial saving of souls.
Pastor: A shepherd; one who tends flocks, not merely one who feeds them (Acts 20:28 and 1 Pet. 5:1-2).
Exhorter: One who admonishes, exhorts, urges one to pursue some course of conduct (Rom. 12:6-8; Lk. 3:18).
Bishop: Overseer (Acts 20:17, 28; 1 Tim. 3:1-7, 11).
Elder, Presbyter: Other terms for the same person as bishop, indicating the mature spiritual experience and understanding of those so described (1 Tim. 4:14; Titus 1:5-9).

The above offices are sub-classifications of “true messenger of God” or “messenger of the truth,” each burdened for the specific work of their calling. Some gifts overlap. Not all believers are called to be messengers of God in the context addressed by this article (1 Cor. 12:29), therefore lack the marks of a true messenger of God:

I said I can accept that that's what you believe. You requested that I respect your belief and I told you why I can't.

No, you don't have to explain anything. Have a blessed day.

 

[ResidentAlien]

That is the plain literal sense of that word ἄγγελος (aggelos), so why not stick with it? If they were prophets Christ would have said so. If they were apostles, Christ would have said so. If they were elders, Christ would have said so.

First of all, I never said they were apostles but prophets.

Secondly, the same word ἄγγελος is used in Mark 1:2: "As it is written in the Prophets: 'Behold, I send My messenger [ἄγγελος] before Your face, who will prepare Your way before You.' " Why don't we translate that "angel" too if that's the clear meaning?

 

[studentoftheword]

I said I can accept that that's what you believe. You requested that I respect your belief and I told you why I can't.


ResidentAllen -----I never requested that you respect my belief in my post -----


This is my post below from above ---this is what I said -----You may have a different view and I respect that ---

I say -------there was no request in this statement ---

I say --------Well these Pastors are messengers of God as Jesus is holding them in His right hand -----so that is my view of the 7 stars ---- angel means messenger or delegate -----sent by God

Greek word for Angel
32 ággelos – properly, a messenger or delegate – either human or heavenly (a celestial angel); someone sent (by God) to proclaim His message.


Strong's Concordance

Greek word for star
astér: a star
by the figure of the seven stars which Christ holds in his right hand, Revelation 1:16; Revelation 2:1; Revelation 3:1, are signified the angels of the seven churches under the direction of Christ, Revelation 1:20;

You may have a different view and I respect that

I say ----So show me where I requested that you accept my view ?????????

 

[studentoftheword]

ResidentAllen
---you also have a Blessed day -----

 

[Webers.Home]

.
The Greek word transated "angel" is aggelos which basically refers to
messengers; both natural and supernatural.


John the baptizer was an aggelos (Matt 11:10)

John the baptizer's delegates were aggelos. (Luke 7:24)

Satan's associates are aggelos. (2Cor 12:7)

Joshua' scouts were aggelos. (Jas 2:25)


The seven letters that John wrote while on the isle of Patmos pre-supposes
that he expected them to be delivered. In point of fact, the language and
grammar throughout the book of Revelation indicates that John expected the
entire document would eventually become public.
_

 

[Laura798]

Some have said they are literal angels.

Some say they're pastors; however, there's no indication in all of the New Testament that any church had a lead pastor, or that that pastor's duty was to deliver messages. The duty of a pastor is to shepherd, for that is what the word "pastor" means.

I'd like to suggest they're prophets, forthtellers, messengers of the churches. The Greek angelo can refer to a human messenger, depending on the context. Prophet makes more sense than pastor.

Additionally, when we consider Revelation 2:20. Most translations translate it: "you tolerate that woman Jezebel"; or "the woman Jezebel." But the Greek γυναῖκα (gynaika) especially means "wife." For example: "Strong's Greek 113: A woman, wife, my lady. Probably from the base of ginomai; a woman; specially, a wife."

Now let's look at how the Majority Text translates this verse: "But I have this against you, that you tolerate your wife Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols." Now we see how it makes perfect sense that the "angels" would be prophets. And we can also see how this verse has particular importance today, with all the husband and wife "prophetic" teams about.

Wilbur Pickering's note on this verse from his New Testament based on the Majority Text says: "About three fourths of the Greek manuscripts read 'your wife' rather than 'that woman'. The main group that reads 'that woman' reflects a tradition that is full of obvious corruptions, and so does not inspire confidence. The original reading is doubtless 'your wife'.

The angel tells John the stars represent angels. In the rest of scripture stars represent angels. In Revelation a ‘a third of the stars are cast down’, both Jesus and Satan are called ‘morning star’; in Job it says “while all the morning stars sang together…” By this I think we can pretty well ascertain they are angels. Furthermore, the angel has stated this is what the stars represent. I personally would caution against any kind of conjecture as we see how people are in our present time calling themselves ‘apostles’ and ‘prophets’ and saying ‘thus sayeth the Lord.” Also its important to remember that the scriptures were not written with any chapter or verse--that was added in the 16th century--so it’s important to look at the context in the surrounding verses. For example,

John writes, “ This letter is from John to the seven churches in the province of Asia. Grace and peace to you from the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come; from the sevenfold Spirit (other translations say seven angels) before his throne;”

I believe the seven angels are referring to the seven/sevenfold angels that stand before God’s throne. If sevenfold, then that would mean the multitude of angels that stand before His throne. In any case, I don’t believe the angels are anything other than angels--the point of it being addressed to the angels I believe, is that this message is not John’s message, but the very words of God to believers. If a subject of a kingdom receives an important message from the King--he isn’t considering the messenger delivering the message, but rather the message itself.

Each letter says “Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”

As far as the warning to the church in Thyatira “You tolerate that woman Jezebel”--it is a specific warning to that particular church,---I personally don't see that this would make 'angels' translate to 'prophets'. John is the messenger, the letters are merely addressed to the 7 angels which I believe are the sevenfold spirit that stand before God. I believe addressing the letter to the angels was to emphasize that the words that are being delivered are directly from Jesus Christ.

 

[Mem]

I believe the seven angels are referring to the seven/sevenfold angels that stand before God’s throne.

Rev 3:1 reads, "These are the words of the One who holds the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars." It's difficult to distinguish if these are exactly referring to one and the same here but I agree with your general assertions with only a small, and possibly insignificant, distinction. You referred to the 'angel' speaking to John which, to me, is clearly (the Angel of) the Christ Himself, the Spirit of Jesus if you will. My inclination to regard these 'angels' which are illustrated as a types of celestial beings but that aren't actually stars and also not, at least initially, directly identified by the term angels suggest something possessing a sort of intangible identity that I think might be more simply explained as a spirit as in the attitude or character of a particular body of believer(s). I mean rather than those otherwise regarded such as seraphim, that is,

 

[Laura798]

Rev 3:1 reads, "These are the words of the One who holds the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars." It's difficult to distinguish if these are exactly referring to one and the same here but I agree with your general assertions with only a small, and possibly insignificant, distinction. You referred to the 'angel' speaking to John which, to me, is clearly (the Angel of) the Christ Himself, the Spirit of Jesus if you will. My inclination to regard these 'angels' which are illustrated as a types of celestial beings but that aren't actually stars and also not, at least initially, directly identified by the term angels suggest something possessing a sort of intangible identity that I think might be more simply explained as a spirit as in the attitude or character of a particular body of believer(s). I mean rather than those otherwise regarded such as seraphim, that is,

Hi Mem,

I think this is our first interaction--I always appreciate getting a response as sometimes I will consider at matter and go on and length and then get nary a response. Perhaps I need to get better at summarizing?

The angel is speaking the words of Jesus--he is Jesus' mouthpiece as recall when John bows down to Him the angel chastises him?

"And I am John, who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!…"--Revelations 22:8

Again, I think best to believe the angel himself "The stars are angels"--and to pay most attention to the message rather than the messenger. I also think it is written to the Angels so that there are two witnesses to each church--the Angels and John.

"This is the third time I am coming to you. “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”--2nd Corinthians 13:1


Here is some interesting facts about the number 7 in the bible: https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/the-number-7-in-the-bible/

 

[Mem]

Hi Mem,

I think this is our first interaction--I always appreciate getting a response as sometimes I will consider at matter and go on and length and then get nary a response. Perhaps I need to get better at summarizing?

The angel is speaking the words of Jesus--he is Jesus' mouthpiece as recall when John bows down to Him the angel chastises him?

"And I am John, who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!…"--Revelations 22:8

Again, I think best to believe the angel himself "The stars are angels"--and to pay most attention to the message rather than the messenger. I also think it is written to the Angels so that there are two witnesses to each church--the Angels and John.

"This is the third time I am coming to you. “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”--2nd Corinthians 13:1


Here is some interesting facts about the number 7 in the bible: https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/the-number-7-in-the-bible/

Hi Laura798,

I believe we've previously interacted but I often change my avatar so you my not recognize 'me' because of that. I apologize if I misunderstood which particular reference you were speak to, I was referring to the Rev 1"17 incident when John 'fell at His feet like a dead man.' And thanks for the link, I have looked into the meaning of numbers here and there so am acquainted with them somewhat as numbers are directly related to each letter in the Hebrew alefbet study that I often refer back to. Especially interesting to me is that it is 'written' by the letter zayin which is representative of a sword and time, among other things and is a 'crowned' letter which is representative of , for the short of it, the righteous man.

 

[Laura798]

Hi Laura798,

I believe we've previously interacted but I often change my avatar so you my not recognize 'me' because of that. I apologize if I misunderstood which particular reference you were speak to, I was referring to the Rev 1"17 incident when John 'fell at His feet like a dead man.' And thanks for the link, I have looked into the meaning of numbers here and there so am acquainted with them somewhat as numbers are directly related to each letter in the Hebrew alefbet study that I often refer back to. Especially interesting to me is that it is 'written' by the letter zayin which is representative of a sword and time, among other things and is a 'crowned' letter which is representative of , for the short of it, the righteous man.

Interesting! The bible is like those Russian nesting eggs--there is always one more thing...and another and another to discover!

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Did the Christ own the clothes that he wore; or not?
_

 

[Laura798]

.
Did the Christ own the clothes that he wore; or not?
_

I think this was posted in the wrong place--this is 'who are the seven angels in Revelation?' forum.

 

[DavidTree]

.
The Greek word transated "angel" is aggelos which basically refers to
messengers; both natural and supernatural.


John the baptizer was an aggelos (Matt 11:10)

John the baptizer's delegates were aggelos. (Luke 7:24)The entire

Satan's associates are aggelos. (2Cor 12:7)

Joshua' scouts were aggelos. (Jas 2:25)


The seven letters that John wrote while on the isle of Patmos pre-supposes
that he expected them to be delivered. In point of fact, the language and
grammar throughout the book of Revelation indicates that John expected the
entire document would eventually become public.
_

AGREE, and the entire document is for the entire/full/complete Body of Christ for All Time = "He who has an ear to hear"

Revelation begins with and ends with the SAME Message: Revelation 1:1-3 and 22:6-7 and 16-17

This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near. Rev 1:1-3

Then the angel said to me, “These words are faithful and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, has sent His angel to show His servants what must soon take place.”
“Behold, I am coming soon. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book.” Rev 22:6-7

“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to give you this testimony for the churches.
I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the bright Morning Star.” Rev 22:16-17