THE WOMEN OF THE CHURCH
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For several weeks now, I have been thinking of the situation of the women in the Church. It has been heavy on my heart, and I have given much thought as to how best present it here on Christian Chat.
I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominationl Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.
The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
I am not arguing any particular Church Group/Denominationl Teaching as being right or wrong. That is not the purpose of this Article.
The purpose of this Article is to discuss the situation that millions of women in the Church find themselves. There are numerous Chruch Groups/Denominations that teach the writings of the Apostle Paul concerning women. For the purpose of this Article, I am taking the position that their teachings are true and Biblical (my personal thoughts not withstanding).
God's word is not dire. His commandments are righteous. even though we may not have sufficient comprehension of why....we are guided by His word.
Be reminded, God places great respect and mention of women in scriptures. Such is ignored when this topic is addressed.
There are at least 3 books in the Bible cautioning us to not make changes to His word. We must apply that direction in this case also.
Why some women take this as a negative I see not.
Because of the responsibilites God places on man, exceedingly...it seems.... of women, I for one would seriously consider changing places, if that were possible.
Be reminded, God places great respect and mention of women in scriptures. Such is ignored when this topic is addressed.
There are at least 3 books in the Bible cautioning us to not make changes to His word. We must apply that direction in this case also.
Why some women take this as a negative I see not.
Because of the responsibilites God places on man, exceedingly...it seems.... of women, I for one would seriously consider changing places, if that were possible.
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Yes. However, Christ died for the Church before ruling her.
That has bearing as well.
That has bearing as well.
Yes it does.
But now, this is actually the heart of Pauline teaching on this subject:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject unto their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
In New Testament times, men were dying for their faith. If the parents/ relatives of a man's wife found out that he was evangelizing her to become a Christian and they were vehemently against the gospel, they could report him to authorities, which could potentially end his life. But the responsibility of a Christian husband was to teach her the word anyway. This is why Pauls follows the words, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" with, "that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."
The reason we cringe at the notion of someone "ruling" over another person is because in this world the Devil's children Lord over and abuse one another. That's the way Satan's kingdom operates because they act the way he acts, and he is a god of hate. But not so in the kingdom of God. This is why Jesus taught as follows:
25 Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. (Matthew 20:25-26)
An example of the way lordship is exercised in God's kingdom was given by Paul when he mentioned how Sarah called Abraham "Lord," and yet it is obvious that those two loved each other because one passage talks about how they were seen "sporting with each other" together, which gave away to others that they were obviously more than just brother and sister. So it is not an evil thing for a godly man to be Lord (i.e. "master") over his wife if she is acknowledging his headship over her, and willing to submit to his leadership in love, and this again is what Paul was trying to emphasize. The Christian husband should be willing to die for his wife if necessary to make sure she gets to Heaven, and she should see that she reverences him for it and seeks to do what he is telling her.
It is about getting her to Heaven through his spiritual leadership, not turning her into his own personal slave to fulfill his carnal desires.
Yes it does. But now, this is actually the heart of Pauline teaching on this subject:
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject unto their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
In New Testament times, men were dying for their faith. If the parents/ relatives of a man's wife found out that he was evangelizing her to become a Christian and they were vehemently against the gospel, they could report him to authorities, which could potentially end his life. But the responsibility of a Christian husband was to teach her the word anyway. This is why Pauls follows the words, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" with, "that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."
The reason we cringe at the notion of someone "ruling" over another person is because in this world the Devil's children Lord over and abuse one another. That's the way Satan's kingdom operates because they act the way he acts, and he is a god of hate. But not so in the kingdom of God. This is why Jesus taught as follows:
25 Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. (Matthew 20:25-26)
An example of the way lordship is exercised in God's kingdom was given by Paul when he mentioned how Sarah called Abraham "Lord," and yet it is obvious that those two loved each other because one passage talks about how they were seen "sporting with each other" together, which gave away to others that they were obviously more than just brother and sister. So it is not an evil thing for a godly man to be Lord (i.e. "master") over his wife if she is acknowledging his headship over her, and willing to submit to his leadership in love, and this again is what Paul was trying to emphasize. The Christian husband should be willing to die for his wife if necessary to make sure she gets to Heaven, and she should see that she reverences him for it and seeks to do what he is telling her.
It is about getting her to Heaven through his spiritual leadership, not turning her into his own personal slave to fulfill his carnal desires.
But now, this is actually the heart of Pauline teaching on this subject:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject unto their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
In New Testament times, men were dying for their faith. If the parents/ relatives of a man's wife found out that he was evangelizing her to become a Christian and they were vehemently against the gospel, they could report him to authorities, which could potentially end his life. But the responsibility of a Christian husband was to teach her the word anyway. This is why Pauls follows the words, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" with, "that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."
The reason we cringe at the notion of someone "ruling" over another person is because in this world the Devil's children Lord over and abuse one another. That's the way Satan's kingdom operates because they act the way he acts, and he is a god of hate. But not so in the kingdom of God. This is why Jesus taught as follows:
25 Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. (Matthew 20:25-26)
An example of the way lordship is exercised in God's kingdom was given by Paul when he mentioned how Sarah called Abraham "Lord," and yet it is obvious that those two loved each other because one passage talks about how they were seen "sporting with each other" together, which gave away to others that they were obviously more than just brother and sister. So it is not an evil thing for a godly man to be Lord (i.e. "master") over his wife if she is acknowledging his headship over her, and willing to submit to his leadership in love, and this again is what Paul was trying to emphasize. The Christian husband should be willing to die for his wife if necessary to make sure she gets to Heaven, and she should see that she reverences him for it and seeks to do what he is telling her.
It is about getting her to Heaven through his spiritual leadership, not turning her into his own personal slave to fulfill his carnal desires.
Your point is made. However, disagreeing women asks...why can't I should be responsible to make it by my self?
What do you say to that?
If she's married? Because by entering into a marriage covenant she essentially agreed to reflect the church in her relationship with Christ. It is a witness to the world, and He is both our Lord and our Teacher. Certainly He can teach her many things directly, but she should want to participate in the beauty of marriage by letting her husband reflect Christ to her by teaching her the things of God.
Yes it does. But now, this is actually the heart of Pauline teaching on this subject:
22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject unto their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
In New Testament times, men were dying for their faith. If the parents/ relatives of a man's wife found out that he was evangelizing her to become a Christian and they were vehemently against the gospel, they could report him to authorities, which could potentially end his life. But the responsibility of a Christian husband was to teach her the word anyway. This is why Pauls follows the words, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" with, "that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."
The reason we cringe at the notion of someone "ruling" over another person is because in this world the Devil's children Lord over and abuse one another. That's the way Satan's kingdom operates because they act the way he acts, and he is a god of hate. But not so in the kingdom of God. This is why Jesus taught as follows:
25 Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. (Matthew 20:25-26)
An example of the way lordship is exercised in God's kingdom was given by Paul when he mentioned how Sarah called Abraham "Lord," and yet it is obvious that those two loved each other because one passage talks about how they were seen "sporting with each other" together, which gave away to others that they were obviously more than just brother and sister. So it is not an evil thing for a godly man to be Lord (i.e. "master") over his wife if she is acknowledging his headship over her, and willing to submit to his leadership in love, and this again is what Paul was trying to emphasize. The Christian husband should be willing to die for his wife if necessary to make sure she gets to Heaven, and she should see that she reverences him for it and seeks to do what he is telling her.
It is about getting her to Heaven through his spiritual leadership, not turning her into his own personal slave to fulfill his carnal desires.
But now, this is actually the heart of Pauline teaching on this subject:22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be subject unto their own husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word. (Ephesians 5:22-26)
In New Testament times, men were dying for their faith. If the parents/ relatives of a man's wife found out that he was evangelizing her to become a Christian and they were vehemently against the gospel, they could report him to authorities, which could potentially end his life. But the responsibility of a Christian husband was to teach her the word anyway. This is why Pauls follows the words, "Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her" with, "that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."
The reason we cringe at the notion of someone "ruling" over another person is because in this world the Devil's children Lord over and abuse one another. That's the way Satan's kingdom operates because they act the way he acts, and he is a god of hate. But not so in the kingdom of God. This is why Jesus taught as follows:
25 Jesus called them to Himself and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. (Matthew 20:25-26)
An example of the way lordship is exercised in God's kingdom was given by Paul when he mentioned how Sarah called Abraham "Lord," and yet it is obvious that those two loved each other because one passage talks about how they were seen "sporting with each other" together, which gave away to others that they were obviously more than just brother and sister. So it is not an evil thing for a godly man to be Lord (i.e. "master") over his wife if she is acknowledging his headship over her, and willing to submit to his leadership in love, and this again is what Paul was trying to emphasize. The Christian husband should be willing to die for his wife if necessary to make sure she gets to Heaven, and she should see that she reverences him for it and seeks to do what he is telling her.
It is about getting her to Heaven through his spiritual leadership, not turning her into his own personal slave to fulfill his carnal desires.
I can't start conversations, but I'd just like to say I like your avatar, Lucy. Part of my reward in Heaven when all this is over is that I want to have a lot of animals around me as pets, including big cats.
I'm much more an animal person than a people person, though I do my best to tolerate the latter, Lol.
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The gospel being of importance. Jesus could of chose Peter, John, or James to bring the glorious news that Christ had risen. Jesus had defeated both sin and death.
This message was entrusted to multiple women to bring to men. If you take cultural norms into consideration this was not the way to do it. But as you can see the men didn't even trust the women.
This was the men being informed/taught of the beginning gospel message. He has risen! And then they shared everything else Jesus had spoken.
This message was entrusted to multiple women to bring to men. If you take cultural norms into consideration this was not the way to do it. But as you can see the men didn't even trust the women.
This was the men being informed/taught of the beginning gospel message. He has risen! And then they shared everything else Jesus had spoken.
We all saw the same thing yet you take exception with me? Fine, Your "Thread post" is your reality. Don't get mad because we did not see your forest because of the trees. I have said things that to came out wrong on past threads and others saw it to mean something else Guess what that was my fault not there or it is the freedom and culture of the person.
To show you in my opinion you were unclear When I posted those 8 words about your thread
"the opening is in contrast to the closing."
why did you not say something back then 150 posts back?
Also if your going to speak in the third person stay in the third person.
To show you in my opinion you were unclear When I posted those 8 words about your thread
"the opening is in contrast to the closing."
why did you not say something back then 150 posts back?
Also if your going to speak in the third person stay in the third person.
I was a bit busy. As well, I was not then, nor am I now "mad" about any comments here. No reason to be. More concerned, actually. As for your comment, I simply believed you would have read the first three paragraphs of the OP, and understood that I was not expressing my beliefs. I was giving you credit that possibly I should not have.
Could not stay in "third person" and maintain the reasoning for the OP.
Doesn't matter though.............
Could not stay in "third person" and maintain the reasoning for the OP.
Doesn't matter though.............
The real problem is that people are focusing on me and not the issue addressed in the OP. That "issue" being the position the Church Leaders who teach such about women are placing the women of their Church in.
The women in these Churches are not the ones who decided what their Church would believe/teach. It was the Church Leaders. And, yes, they are ALL men. The women are told what their Church believed of Scripture without any opportunity to influence the end result. The Leaders clearly chose to relegate the women to a "lesser" position, thus placing them in a terrible position. Yet the Leaders did not have the courage to "enforce" all of the beliefs/teachings they chose. Only the one was chosen to be strictly enforced. That being women in positions of authority.
This cowardly approach by the Church Leaders forced the women to be disobedient to the beliefs/teachings of their Church and its Leaders. Even though they were never instructed by their Church Leaders on how they should conform to those beliefs/teachings. That is the real issue of the OP. And that is why I am praying for these women.
The women in these Churches are not the ones who decided what their Church would believe/teach. It was the Church Leaders. And, yes, they are ALL men. The women are told what their Church believed of Scripture without any opportunity to influence the end result. The Leaders clearly chose to relegate the women to a "lesser" position, thus placing them in a terrible position. Yet the Leaders did not have the courage to "enforce" all of the beliefs/teachings they chose. Only the one was chosen to be strictly enforced. That being women in positions of authority.
This cowardly approach by the Church Leaders forced the women to be disobedient to the beliefs/teachings of their Church and its Leaders. Even though they were never instructed by their Church Leaders on how they should conform to those beliefs/teachings. That is the real issue of the OP. And that is why I am praying for these women.
