Saved by Water

[Wansvic]

your point?

you cannot address the fact scripture plainly states baptism does not save so you create smoke

all scripture is profitable, but no reason for your additions here

The context of scripture can be misunderstood if an individual neglects to read all relevant verses.

Paul begins an explanation of what occurs in water baptism in Col 2:12. He goes on to point out that sins are forgiven at the time as seen in the next verse:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:12-13


The same is seen in Romans 6:4-6
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:4-6

 

[SophieT]

The context of scripture can be misunderstood if an individual neglects to read all relevant verses.

Paul begins an explanation of what occurs in water baptism in Col 2:12. He goes on to point out that sins are forgiven at the time as seen in the next verse:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Col 2:12-13


The same is seen in Romans 6:4-6
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. Rom 6:4-6

the context of scripture has been highly misunderstood by your group the Oneness Pentecostals

thanks for sharing that truth

 

[Wansvic]

the context of scripture has been highly misunderstood by your group the Oneness Pentecostals

thanks for sharing that truth

Any comments concerning the actual scripture references noted?

 

[SophieT]

Any comments concerning the actual scripture references noted?

and this is for those who cannot comprehend that water baptism is symbolic and think it is not in scripture...well it is

12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. this verse indicates a symbolic burial with Christ through water baptism and not washing away of any sin. if a person can remember that the Bible is CLEAR that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, they can then view scripture concerning baptism with a proper understanding of the symbolism and the fact that while we should be baptized, this does not wash away our sins. through the act of water baptism, we signify that our old lives are now behind us...buried...and we are now alive in Christ, a new creation and a child of God

Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.

Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”

Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized. references are from scripture and the explanations are from here

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority through Jesus Christ our Lord before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Jude

 

[Wansvic]

and this is for those who cannot comprehend that water baptism is symbolic and think it is not in scripture...well it is

12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. this verse indicates a symbolic burial with Christ through water baptism and not washing away of any sin. if a person can remember that the Bible is CLEAR that only the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin, they can then view scripture concerning baptism with a proper understanding of the symbolism and the fact that while we should be baptized, this does not wash away our sins. through the act of water baptism, we signify that our old lives are now behind us...buried...and we are now alive in Christ, a new creation and a child of God

Baptism was practiced before the founding of the church. The Jews of ancient times would baptize proselytes to signify the converts’ “cleansed” nature. John the Baptist used baptism to prepare the way of the Lord, requiring everyone, not just Gentiles, to be baptized because everyone needs repentance. However, John’s baptism, signifying repentance, is not the same as Christian baptism, as seen in Acts 18:24–26 and 19:1–7. Christian baptism has a deeper significance.

Baptism is to be done in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit—this is what makes it “Christian” baptism. It is through this ordinance that a person is admitted into the fellowship of the church. When we are saved, we are “baptized” by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, which is the church. First Corinthians 12:13 says, “We were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Baptism by water is a “reenactment” of the baptism by the Spirit.

Christian baptism is the means by which a person makes a public profession of faith and discipleship. In the waters of baptism, a person says, wordlessly, “I confess faith in Christ; Jesus has cleansed my soul from sin, and I now have a new life of sanctification.”

Christian baptism illustrates, in dramatic style, the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. At the same time, it also illustrates our death to sin and new life in Christ. As the sinner confesses the Lord Jesus, he dies to sin (Romans 6:11) and is raised to a brand-new life (Colossians 2:12). Being submerged in the water represents death to sin, and emerging from the water represents the cleansed, holy life that follows salvation. Romans 6:4 puts it this way: “We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.”

Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Everywhere the gospel is preached and people are drawn to faith in Christ, they are to be baptized. references are from scripture and the explanations are from here

Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you unblemished in His glorious presence, with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority through Jesus Christ our Lord before all time, and now, and for all eternity. Jude

What you've stated is your understanding. However, it does not line up with other scriptures on the topic that state specifically that obedience to water baptism brings about the reality of remission of sin. This truth is seen in John the Baptist's message as well as Peter's, and Ananias' message to the Apostle Paul. (Acts 2:38 and 22:16) Scripture will never, ever contradict itself.

 

[oyster67]

It just surprised me that you would accept Rebel77's statement without the same level of scrutiny.

We don't need Scriptural evidence to ascertain that the sky is blue, and we don't need a microscope to ascertain that there are some false teachers onboard. Some things are obvious.

Why have you decided to target @Rebel77?

 

[tourist]

the context of scripture has been highly misunderstood by your group the Oneness Pentecostals

thanks for sharing that truth

I heard that the truth will set you free. Think that's in the bible somewhere. Or maybe that's from the X-Files. It's out there.

 

[oyster67]

I heard that the truth will set you free. Think that's in the bible somewhere. Or maybe that's from the X-Files. It's out there.

Yes.

John
8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[oyster67]

It's out there.

...and flying in this direction at a very high rate of speeeeeeeed.

 

[SophieT]

What you've stated is your understanding. However, it does not line up with other scriptures on the topic that state specifically that obedience to water baptism brings about the reality of remission of sin. This truth is seen in John the Baptist's message as well as Peter's, and Ananias' message to the Apostle Paul. (Acts 2:38 and 22:16) Scripture will never, ever contradict itself.

so again you are outright rejecting scripture that shows your error of Oneness and baptism?

so be it then

'your argument is not with anyone here

 

[SophieT]

I heard that the truth will set you free. Think that's in the bible somewhere. Or maybe that's from the X-Files. It's out there.

only if you 'WANT to believe'

Oneness does not want to believe

 

[oyster67]

'your argument is not with anyone here

Yup. We shall leave him to his building Ebenezer's in the bathtub, then.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are making it a work of righteousness i.e. a work by which we are made righteous with God and Paul says it is not by any work of righteousness that we have been saved.

There is no effort involved in submitting to water baptism in Jesus' Name...therefore it is not a work.

 

[justbyfaith]

OK, then please explain HOW Noah was "saved by water". This should be interesting.

btw, the actual Greek text has "dia" which means "through".

it is impossible to argue that Noah was saved BY water. In fact, the entire human race of that day were all killed BY water.

Your facts aren't straight.

Noah was saved from the violent people of the world that he lived in when the waters of the flood wiped them out.

 

[justbyfaith]

No, to the families of those present and Gentiles, for that is what "afar off" refers to.

That is an alternate interpretation, that you choose to believe at your own peril.

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
No I don't. I have Scripture which refutes your claims.

All of the claims you've been making on this forum.


Sure. You think water baptism saves. And your unbiblical claims about the Trinity.

If my claims about the Trinity are unbiblical, why then has no one been able to prove that they are unbiblical up to this point?

Water baptism does have the power to save (Acts 2:38-39, Romans 6:1-4, Galatians 3:27, Colossians 2:11-15, 1 Peter 3:20-21; Ezekiel 36:25-27).

Is not water baptism an identification with Christ in his death, burial, and resurrection?

And therefore, does it not amount to confessing Jesus before men?

Will not Jesus confess us before the holy angels and the Father as the result (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8)?

Is that not salvation?

 

[justbyfaith]

FreeGrace2 said:
I don't reject it. I understand it. It was specifically for those who had seen the miracles of Jesus yet participated in His crucifixion.

It is you who doesn't understand.

First, Rom 1:16 says NOTHING about water baptism for salvation. Only belief in the gospel. No dunking for salvation.

Paul's answer to the jailer destroys your theory.

1 Cor 1- where the greatest evangelist of all time specifically said that he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.

Paul's entire message was always consistent. Salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ.

Those who do believe are commanded to be water baptized as a symbol of their faith in and union with Christ.

Just keep on ignoring Acts 2:39...

You think that you understand these verses in your assertion that the promise in question was given only to those who saw Jesus' miracles.

But Acts 2:39 is clear that there were those who were afar off who would be recipients of that promise...

And even if that is referring to Gentiles, as you purport, I think that you need to realize that Cornelius and friends (and other Gentiles who would recreive baptism in Jesus' Name later) were not among those who originally saw Jesus perform His miracles.

For Jesus ministered primarily to the lost sheep of the house of Israel; and performed His miracles in Israel.

Paul wasn't sent to baptize, that is true...and therefore he baptized only the household of Stephanas, and Gaius, and Crispus, in Corinth.

Nevertheless many were baptized in Corinth under Paul's ministry.

Which indicates that Paul didn't neglect to make sure that they were baptized.

In Acts 2:38-39, a promise is given, that is conditional. It is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Fulfill the condition of the promise, you will receive the promise.

You may be able to lay a hold of the promise through some other means...

However, since it is an absolute promise in Acts 2:38, I would encourage every reader to "get this one done" so that you can know absolutely that you have received the promise, in that you will have fulfilled the condition of the promise.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are totally misreading the verse. It does NOT say the symbol saves us. It says water baptism is a symbol of the baptism that DOES save us.

Nope.

 

[justbyfaith]

For that crowd only.

To them, and to their children, and to all that are afar off; even to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

[justbyfaith]

you just ignored my post based on scripture that shows baptism does not save

What post # was that?