Did Jesus and His Apostles live in the "LAST DAYS" The "END OF THE AGE"?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,212
2,547
113
#21
I believe the Beast was Nero. There's to much evidence for that.

My question is Were John’s original readers meant to understand, the followers of the beast would receive a literal and visible mark on their hands or forehead? which I believe occurred in Nero’s day. Those who worshipped the emperor received a certificate or mark of approval – charagma, the same word used in Revelation 13:16 In addition, Nero had coins minted in which he was called “almighty God” and “Savior.” Nero’s portrait also appears on coins as the god.

The mark of the beast is the charagma. Charagma is the Greek word for mark. The charagma is a brand, etching, engraving, stamp or seal used to notarize official documents or documents of purchase, brand slaves as a mark of ownership, mark soldiers with the name of their general, and tattoo religious devotees of a particular god.

It was also the name given to the image of the emperor stamped on currency. Thus each Roman coin was literally “marked” with the face and name of Caesar. The presence of the charagma or mark of Caesar on Roman coins and deeds of purchase made it impossible to buy or sell without it. Thus one could accurately say that Roman coins and deeds of purchase were a physical aspect of the mark of the beast since they were literally marked with the name and image of Caesar, the beast.

Interestingly, Ignatius an early Christian writer who lived from A.D. 35 to A.D. 107 seems to confirm the above interpretation concerning the fact that the physical mark of the beast was Roman money: “For just as there are two coinages, the one of God and the other of the world, and each of them hath its proper stamp impressed upon it, the unbelievers the stamp of this world, but the faithful in love the stamp of God the Father through Jesus Christ.”131 Recall that charagma, the Greek word for mark, was the same word used to refer to the stamp on Roman currency.

As stated above, the saints and the wicked were marked on their hands and foreheads with the name of the one to whom they serve and are devoted (Revelation 7:3; 13:16-17; 14:1) just as a slave was often marked to denote the identity of their owner. In other words, the two marks of Revelation are distinct brands intended to separate the servants or slaves of God from the servants or slaves of the beast. And just as the seal of God sometimes had a physical manifestation or component (Exodus 28:36, Matthew 23:5), the mark of the beast also clearly had a tangible sign or component (Revelation 13:16-17). The tangible aspect of the mark of the beast were Roman coins and deeds of purchase which were said to be quite literally marked with the image of Caesar and Rome, the beast. The charagma or mark of the beast is the tangible manifestation of a spiritual mark of idolatrous service and devotion to Caesar and is therefore the dark counterpart of the seal given to those devoted to God in Revelation 7:3; 14:1; Exodus 13; and Ezekiel 9:3-6. Thus the mark of Revelation is a brand denoting the name of the true king to whom one is a devoted slave or servant132 If a person is a devoted servant of Christ, this person is spiritually marked with the name of the Father and the Lamb on their forehead (Revelation 14:1). If a person is only devoted to Caesar, the beast, (in this case because of greed) then this person is marked with “the name of the beast or the number of its name” as stated in Revelation 13:16-17.

During Jesus’ crucifixion, the wealthy elites chanted, “We have no king but Caesar” in John 19:15. Those who sought to have Jesus killed saying that they have no king but Caesar, of course, have the mark of the beast. These wealthy Jewish elites who sought to have Jesus killed while vociferously allying themselves with Caesar did so because of greed. The clear and inextricable Biblical and historical link between Roman money, the plot to kill Jesus and passionate devotion to Caesar over and above God will be thoroughly explained shortly, but before addressing this link it is necessary to highlight the idolatrous nature of Roman coins from the perspective of a first-century Jew.

--OR--

Or was the language John used metaphors of the hand representing one’s deeds and the forehead representing one’s thoughts? Maybe this is a reference to Moses’ instructions to the people of Israel that they were to bind the words of God “as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes” (Deuteronomy 6:8). In this case, the apostate followers of the beast would not be symbolically marked with the words of God, but with their allegiance to the one who stood opposed to God and His people.

All money was marked with Caesar's name and or image. No one could buy or sell unless he had the mark of the beast which was a coin.

When we read about a "mark" on the forehead, hand, heart etc. Right off the bat we should know this is figurative (symbolic) language not literal. Take for example Ezekiel 9:3-6 The Lord tells an angel to place a "mark on the foreheads" on the righteous and uses a writer's inkhorn. Do you really think an angel goes around carrying a writer's inkhorn dotting foreheads? No, this is a symbolic way of showing ownership. In this case people were set apart, the righteous from the unrighteous. And as we can see it didn't look good for the unrighteous. They did not have the spiritual mark on their forehead. God knows who is His.

In Revelation 14:1 God places His "mark" on those that are His and in Revelation 14:9-11 A "mark" is also received on those who worship the beast etc. Again this is symbolic language that separates the righteous from the unrighteous. It's meaning is spiritual not physical.

Let me ask you this, Isn't worship from the heart? Isn't Jesus stamped on your forehead. Jesus knows who are His and dwells within them. So, no matter what kind of stupid implants, barcodes, tattoos or vaccines are force on us, nobody cannot make us worship something that isn't in our hearts. Right?

I CAN GO EITHER WAY BUT FULFILLED IN THE FIRST CENTURY.
I would agree that the mark is both spiritual and physical however the temple was not rebuilt and the antichrist did not go into it and proclaim himself to be God
 

DLM

Member
Dec 28, 2021
101
20
18
#23
Hebrews says we have received a foretaste of the age to come


...there is an age yet to come
We are in the The Christian Age, IT HAS NO END (Ephesians 3:20-21)
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,508
113
#24
Why do some people use 2 Peter 3:8 to replace all the time statements in the N.T. Do you really think God would keep us guessing about His timing?

Yes.


Matthew 24:36
New International Version


The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.

Footnotes
  1. Matthew 24:36 Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son.
 

DLM

Member
Dec 28, 2021
101
20
18
#25
Yes.


Matthew 24:36
New International Version


The Day and Hour Unknown
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[a] but only the Father.

Footnotes
  1. Matthew 24:36 Some manuscripts do not have nor the Son.
Now we will look at 2 Peter 3:8 showing it's true meaning. 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This does not mean a short time really means a long time. Those that use 2 Peter 3:8 for a future event are pulling it out of its true meaning. The context of this statement is that the scoffers were reminding Peter that Jesus had promised to return in judgment in their generation, but now, about 30 years later it had not yet happened. So, Peter scolds the scoffers and advised them that "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise" as they were "waiting for the hastening day of the Lord" (2 Peter 3:12). So, Peter, writing in the early 60's AD was issuing a strong warning about the soon coming destruction in AD 66-70 when Jerusalem was leveled, and the temple destroyed.

When God threatened nations with judgment, in the Old Testament, was it imminent or did He wait for 2000 years? Did soon, quickly, and at hand all mean what it does to most 21st century Christians? Every time God came in judgment it was Soon! including His Parousia (Second Coming) in 70 AD. Guess what!? God can tell time! See! Soon is imminent not 2,000 years! Would God give imminent blessings to his hurting creation while knowing all the time he is not really going to bring the promises soon?

Most Christians out there say "Yes, the Bible said the coming of the Lord was 'at hand' in the first century, but time doesn't mean anything to God therefore 'at hand' didn't really mean it was imminent."

If God is saying something is imminent, when He really meant it might not happen for 2,000 years, why did Daniel give heads up several hundreds of years in advance and say the Kingdom would be established in the days of the Roman empire in "the last days," Why didn't he just say soon, at hand or quickly? God was speaking to Daniel and gave a timeline of things to happen. Daniel understood this and knew it was far into the future. This is why God did not cause Daniel to say the kingdom was "near," "at hand," "right at the door," or coming "very soon."
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,508
113
#26
We are in the The Christian Age, IT HAS NO END (Ephesians 3:20-21)
Ephesians 3:20-21 is speaking of Jesus and His glory. Read the verses above it. It is not saying the church age will never end. The Daniel 9 prophecy splits each of these ages to come. The 7 year tribulation is the next age to come.

Daniel 9:20-27

New International Version



The Seventy “Sevens”
20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[i]”[j]
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,271
1,049
113
#27
So, do any preterists out there have children that feed their pet lion pieces of straw? Or have bears in their dairy farm?
 

DLM

Member
Dec 28, 2021
101
20
18
#28
Ephesians 3:20-21 is speaking of Jesus and His glory. Read the verses above it. It is not saying the church age will never end. The Daniel 9 prophecy splits each of these ages to come. The 7 year tribulation is the next age to come.

Daniel 9:20-27

New International Version



The Seventy “Sevens”
20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, “Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[a] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[b] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[c]
25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[d] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[e] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[f] In the middle of the ‘seven’[g] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[h] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[i]”[j]
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled without a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Since of Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled, it makes Daniel's 70th week History to us as it did in the first century. Many try to use the 70th week as a future seven year tribulation. This is not biblical! and I will show why. I will cover all 6 points of Daniel 9:24 and with out a doubt, prove they are used by many to make their false doctrine. I want to start off by saying there is no such thing as a seven year tribulation nor has there ever been. The only tribulation today's Christians will see, comes from John 16:33. Keep in mind though, God promises vengeance on those who persecute His people.

Before we move on, many teach that Daniel 9 is not talking about the Christ Jesus but claim it's the antichrist. This is false as we will prove it was indeed the Messiah, the Christ Jesus.

These are the 6 points that Daniel said would be fulfilled during this 70 weeks. (490 years)

From verse 24 We see seventy weeks are determined for the Jewish people and for Jerusalem. And the following six things will be accomplished.

1. To finish the transgression.

2. To make an end of sins.

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.

6. To anoint the most Holy.

In the bible, we find that not only were all these 6 points fulfilled by Jesus, but they were fulfilled in the generation that Jesus said would see the fulfillment of the remaining verses of Daniel 9's prophecy. Now we will look at each point.

1. To Finish the Transgression

The people of Israel would commit their greatest transgression ever, the killing of their Messiah. In Matthew 23:29-38 - Notice Jesus said all these things would happen in this generation. And again Matthew 24:34 Then in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 This proves that the Jewish non believers, finished the transgression of Daniel 9:24 by killing their Messiah. Point one Fulfilled!

2. To make an end of sins.

Hebrews 9:26; Hebrews 9:11-14; Hebrews 10:9-14

When Jesus died on the cross His sacrifice brought redemption for mans sin. Point two Fulfilled!

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.

"atonement" and "reconciliation" are spoken of in the following verses.

Romans 5:8-11; Colossians 1:20, 21; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20

To regain a close relationship the Father, man needed an atonement or reconcile their nature back with God's. The blood of Jesus was that atoning sacrifice that brought mankind that opportunity, for His sacrifice brought to man a new nature that was not born after their natural father Adam, but rather one born after their heavenly Father Jesus! This is referring to Christ Jesus death on Calvary, which satisfied man's payment for sin. Not some seven year tribulation! Point three Fulfilled!

Jesus' sacrifice occurred 3-1/2 years into His ministry, this fits perfectly of the cutting off in the midst of Daniel's final 70th week See Daniel 9:27.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
Romans 3:21-26; Romans 4:13; Romans 5:17-18; Romans 9:30-31

Righteousness never came through the Law. Jesus said Seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness. He referred to righteousness as being available now. Romans 14:17 Point four Fulfilled!

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.

Isaiah 6:10-12; Matthew 13:14-15; John 12:39-41; Isaiah 28:9-12; Isaiah 28:15-18;Isaiah 29:1-3; Isaiah 29:6; Isaiah 29:10-14

The blindness made them unable to see the prophecy fulfillment happening around them. Judgment came against Israel because of her rejection of the New Covenant.

The sealing of the vision is judgment against Israel, and her city Jerusalem, because of her rejection of Isaiah 28 and 29's chief cornerstone. Isaiah 28:9-12 is also an area that prophesies of the coming New Covenant Holy Spirit outpouring.

All of this was fulfilled during the time of Jesus' ministry. That generation rejected Jesus' New Covenant. Point five Fulfilled!

6. To anoint the most Holy.

John 1:29-34; Acts 2:32-33; Acts 10:37-38; Malachi 3:1

This is not referring to a future Jewish Temple. No where in the bible does it say God is going to establish another physical Temple. Do you really think God would want a temple made of hands. I don't thinks so. In Acts 7:49 He confirms that. Besides His temple is not of this world.

The "anointing of the most high" is not some building. Who is the Holy One? It's Jesus! The body of Christ is the building. Don't we live in Christ?

Jesus was the anointed Temple of God when He was on earth. Then He came in a New Covenant where He could dwell in the hearts of men. This brought about the Kingdom of God to man. And made the Church His Temple of God on the earth. Malachi even prophesied of this.

In Acts 10 we're told Jesus' body was the true anointed dwelling place of God. Peter said that John's baptism of Jesus began the fulfillment of the six points of Daniel 9:24, and launched the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. Peter did this when he told his followers that Jesus would make them His earthly abode after they obeyed the New Covenant command to be born again! Point six Fulfilled!

As you can see the false teaching of a future seven year tribulation cannot be true from any of the points from Daniel 9:24. Did we see a gap for Daniel's prophecy, between the 69th and 70teh week? No! Did we read anything about a rapture? No!

It boils down to this, Those Jews who obeyed the New Covenant were protected by Jesus' blood. And those Jews who were disobedient to God's New Covenant, were coming into His coming judgment. Peter even warned them them Acts 2:40. History shows this judgment came against the disobedient in 67-70 AD just like Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Jesus had warned.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,508
113
#29
Now we will look at 2 Peter 3:8 showing it's true meaning. 2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This does not mean a short time really means a long time. Those that use 2 Peter 3:8 for a future event are pulling it out of its true meaning. The context of this statement is that the scoffers were reminding Peter that Jesus had promised to return in judgment in their generation, but now, about 30 years later it had not yet happened. So, Peter scolds the scoffers and advised them that "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise" as they were "waiting for the hastening day of the Lord" (2 Peter 3:12). So, Peter, writing in the early 60's AD was issuing a strong warning about the soon coming destruction in AD 66-70 when Jerusalem was leveled, and the temple destroyed.

When God threatened nations with judgment, in the Old Testament, was it imminent or did He wait for 2000 years? Did soon, quickly, and at hand all mean what it does to most 21st century Christians? Every time God came in judgment it was Soon! including His Parousia (Second Coming) in 70 AD. Guess what!? God can tell time! See! Soon is imminent not 2,000 years! Would God give imminent blessings to his hurting creation while knowing all the time he is not really going to bring the promises soon?

Most Christians out there say "Yes, the Bible said the coming of the Lord was 'at hand' in the first century, but time doesn't mean anything to God therefore 'at hand' didn't really mean it was imminent."

If God is saying something is imminent, when He really meant it might not happen for 2,000 years, why did Daniel give heads up several hundreds of years in advance and say the Kingdom would be established in the days of the Roman empire in "the last days," Why didn't he just say soon, at hand or quickly? God was speaking to Daniel and gave a timeline of things to happen. Daniel understood this and knew it was far into the future. This is why God did not cause Daniel to say the kingdom was "near," "at hand," "right at the door," or coming "very soon."
The end was near as Paul and the Apostles believed but we are now looking at 2000+ years after their writings.

That is not near to us but to God who is outside of time can be as patient as He pleases.

The only true meaning is what it says. God is patient and a day can be like a 1000 years. No other way to interpret that.

When God threatened nations with judgment, in the Old Testament, was it imminent or did He wait for 2000 years?
God's timing and His will is of his own. You can see it took 400+ years from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven sevens (49) and sixty-two sevens (434). . . . Then after the sixty-two sevens the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing.” Daniel 9

God also once had an old covenant but then made a new. God is not retrained in any way of time or how He wants to rule.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,508
113
#30
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled without a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Since of Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled, it makes Daniel's 70th week History to us as it did in the first century. Many try to use the 70th week as a future seven year tribulation. This is not biblical! and I will show why. I will cover all 6 points of Daniel 9:24 and with out a doubt, prove they are used by many to make their false doctrine. I want to start off by saying there is no such thing as a seven year tribulation nor has there ever been. The only tribulation today's Christians will see, comes from John 16:33. Keep in mind though, God promises vengeance on those who persecute His people.

Before we move on, many teach that Daniel 9 is not talking about the Christ Jesus but claim it's the antichrist. This is false as we will prove it was indeed the Messiah, the Christ Jesus.

These are the 6 points that Daniel said would be fulfilled during this 70 weeks. (490 years)

From verse 24 We see seventy weeks are determined for the Jewish people and for Jerusalem. And the following six things will be accomplished.

1. To finish the transgression.

2. To make an end of sins.

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.

6. To anoint the most Holy.

In the bible, we find that not only were all these 6 points fulfilled by Jesus, but they were fulfilled in the generation that Jesus said would see the fulfillment of the remaining verses of Daniel 9's prophecy. Now we will look at each point.

1. To Finish the Transgression

The people of Israel would commit their greatest transgression ever, the killing of their Messiah. In Matthew 23:29-38 - Notice Jesus said all these things would happen in this generation. And again Matthew 24:34 Then in 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 This proves that the Jewish non believers, finished the transgression of Daniel 9:24 by killing their Messiah. Point one Fulfilled!

2. To make an end of sins.

Hebrews 9:26; Hebrews 9:11-14; Hebrews 10:9-14

When Jesus died on the cross His sacrifice brought redemption for mans sin. Point two Fulfilled!

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity.

"atonement" and "reconciliation" are spoken of in the following verses.

Romans 5:8-11; Colossians 1:20, 21; 2 Corinthians 5:17-20

To regain a close relationship the Father, man needed an atonement or reconcile their nature back with God's. The blood of Jesus was that atoning sacrifice that brought mankind that opportunity, for His sacrifice brought to man a new nature that was not born after their natural father Adam, but rather one born after their heavenly Father Jesus! This is referring to Christ Jesus death on Calvary, which satisfied man's payment for sin. Not some seven year tribulation! Point three Fulfilled!

Jesus' sacrifice occurred 3-1/2 years into His ministry, this fits perfectly of the cutting off in the midst of Daniel's final 70th week See Daniel 9:27.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness.
Romans 3:21-26; Romans 4:13; Romans 5:17-18; Romans 9:30-31

Righteousness never came through the Law. Jesus said Seek first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness. He referred to righteousness as being available now. Romans 14:17 Point four Fulfilled!

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy.

Isaiah 6:10-12; Matthew 13:14-15; John 12:39-41; Isaiah 28:9-12; Isaiah 28:15-18;Isaiah 29:1-3; Isaiah 29:6; Isaiah 29:10-14

The blindness made them unable to see the prophecy fulfillment happening around them. Judgment came against Israel because of her rejection of the New Covenant.

The sealing of the vision is judgment against Israel, and her city Jerusalem, because of her rejection of Isaiah 28 and 29's chief cornerstone. Isaiah 28:9-12 is also an area that prophesies of the coming New Covenant Holy Spirit outpouring.

All of this was fulfilled during the time of Jesus' ministry. That generation rejected Jesus' New Covenant. Point five Fulfilled!

6. To anoint the most Holy.

John 1:29-34; Acts 2:32-33; Acts 10:37-38; Malachi 3:1

This is not referring to a future Jewish Temple. No where in the bible does it say God is going to establish another physical Temple. Do you really think God would want a temple made of hands. I don't thinks so. In Acts 7:49 He confirms that. Besides His temple is not of this world.

The "anointing of the most high" is not some building. Who is the Holy One? It's Jesus! The body of Christ is the building. Don't we live in Christ?

Jesus was the anointed Temple of God when He was on earth. Then He came in a New Covenant where He could dwell in the hearts of men. This brought about the Kingdom of God to man. And made the Church His Temple of God on the earth. Malachi even prophesied of this.

In Acts 10 we're told Jesus' body was the true anointed dwelling place of God. Peter said that John's baptism of Jesus began the fulfillment of the six points of Daniel 9:24, and launched the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel. Peter did this when he told his followers that Jesus would make them His earthly abode after they obeyed the New Covenant command to be born again! Point six Fulfilled!

As you can see the false teaching of a future seven year tribulation cannot be true from any of the points from Daniel 9:24. Did we see a gap for Daniel's prophecy, between the 69th and 70teh week? No! Did we read anything about a rapture? No!

It boils down to this, Those Jews who obeyed the New Covenant were protected by Jesus' blood. And those Jews who were disobedient to God's New Covenant, were coming into His coming judgment. Peter even warned them them Acts 2:40. History shows this judgment came against the disobedient in 67-70 AD just like Peter, Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Jesus had warned.
Ah so before I continue or not just answer one question. Are we in the 7 year tribulation?
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,257
734
113
#31
Those who think the Bible is the perfect to come, those who think this present world is the best we'll ever see -

Oh ye of little faith. And hope.
 

Roughsoul1991

Senior Member
Sep 17, 2016
8,855
4,508
113
#32
Those who think the Bible is the perfect to come, those who think this present world is the best we'll ever see -

Oh ye of little faith. And hope.
The only thing I question is your first few words. Is the Bible perfect?
 
Jul 24, 2021
494
78
28
#33
Had to truncate.
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 were fulfilled without a gap between the 69th and 70th week. Since of Daniel 9:24 has been fulfilled, it makes Daniel's 70th week History to us as it did in the first century.
Here is another calculation
Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
>>70 = 7 x 10. The number 7 indicates a Divine Signature. The number 10 is continuity. The end of sins is described when the river from God and Jesus, tree of life, walls of New Jerusalem are established. That means the end. God will achieve the end of sin... in God's time.

25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
>>There are 2 time periods 7 weeks and 62 weeks.
Consider the first period 7 weeks. The number 7 indicates a Divine Signature and that it will be done. The walls are commanded to be rebuilt (539 BC) and were done so by Nehemiah rebuilt the walls in AD 444-424. Done in God's time.

26a And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary;
>>Consider 62 weeks. No 7s so it must be a prophetic prediction. 62 weeks x 7 days/week x 360 days/lunar year = 156240 days divide by 364.25 solar days/year = 428.9 solar years.
The word וְאַחֲרֵ֤י "after" implies the Death of Jesus (AD 30-33) and the destruction of the temple (AD 70) is after the end of of the 62 year period. Jesus birth is estimated as 6 BC to 4 BC. The death implies birth and the temple was prophesied by Jesus. Anchoring at 6 BC (earliest estimate of Jesus' birth) as the end of the 62 weeks, the beginning of the 62 week period is 6 + 429 = 435 BC. Nehemiah's wall were built win this period. Prophecy of 62 week period is fulfilled with days to years metric.

26b and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27a And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
>>Consider the remaining week.
The empire made many believers of state religions ("a covenant" as BSB bible - no article in greek). The roman empire made many martyrs (desolation of abomination - worship both state and God or die). Worship of God became a state enterprise
Councils of
laodicea 364 AD - The sabbath was outlawed (worship of God became the worship of the invincible sun - 4th)
constatntinople (381 AD) and thessalonica decreed the shema as heretical (God was no longer One - - 1st).
nicea II (787 AD) promoted worship of icons (the lawfulness of the veneration of icons worship of idols in the same place as God - 2nd)

When will the week end, until the wine of God's Wrath is consumed.
 

Bookends

Senior Member
Aug 28, 2012
4,225
99
48
#35
We are in the The Christian Age, IT HAS NO END (Ephesians 3:20-21)
Is not everything in the universe in a state of entropy? Will not the sun run out fuel?

Perhaps by then we will have figured out warp speed in space and live on a different planet. Or perhaps Peter is right, the present earth will burn up and be replaced with a new earth?

2 Peter 3:10, But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be [d]burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.