Let's talk about the elephant in the room

[ResidentAlien]

I think you are wrong

Of course I am. You're sharp.

 

[Evmur]

Of course I am. You're sharp.

do you want to discuss only with those who agree with you?

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 1:8-10
The Message
8-10 If we claim that we’re free of sin, we’re only fooling ourselves. A claim like that is errant nonsense. On the other hand, if we admit our sins—simply come clean about them—he won’t let us down; he’ll be true to himself. He’ll forgive our sins and purge us of all wrongdoing. If we claim that we’ve never sinned, we out-and-out contradict God—make a liar out of him. A claim like that only shows off our ignorance of God.

Verse 9
Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1.

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/1-john-3.html

The meaning of the text is we do not live a lifestyle of sinning.

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8 is clearly talking about indwelling sin as opposed to practical sin.

If it were talking about practical sinning, then it would be in contradiction to the plain meaning of 1 John 3:5-9.

Notice that it does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

There is a practical walk that we can be involved in, in which we do not commit sin.

In fact, the one who is born of God cannot commit practical sin. It is right there in 1 John 3:9 in black and white; and to deny it is to deny holy scripture and what it teaches.

Of course this is different than saying that I do not have indwelling sin...for that would be a violation of 1 John 1:8.

The reality is that the element of sin, as it dwells within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14). Fact is, we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)). Therefore, if we also do not want to obey the flesh, how are we going to obey the flesh? I don't want to and I don't have to....what occasion therefore is there for me to obey the flesh?

 

[ResidentAlien]

do you want to discuss only with those who agree with you?

Yeah, I'd like that a lot.

 

[TheLearner]

1Jo 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 1:8 is clearly talking about indwelling sin as opposed to practical sin.

If it were talking about practical sinning, then it would be in contradiction to the plain meaning of 1 John 3:5-9.

Notice that it does not say, "If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us."

There is a practical walk that we can be involved in, in which we do not commit sin.

In fact, the one who is born of God cannot commit practical sin. It is right there in 1 John 3:9 in black and white; and to deny it is to deny holy scripture and what it teaches.

Of course this is different than saying that I do not have indwelling sin...for that would be a violation of 1 John 1:8.

The reality is that the element of sin, as it dwells within us, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14). Fact is, we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)). Therefore, if we also do not want to obey the flesh, how are we going to obey the flesh? I don't want to and I don't have to....what occasion therefore is there for me to obey the flesh?

It is not a contradiction as I already explained. I John 3 is saying we do not live a lifestyle of continually sinning.
But, when we do sin I John 1 comes into play. I even posted info from a Greek Scholar.

 

[justbyfaith]

It is not a contradiction as I already explained. I John 3 is saying we do not live a lifestyle of continually sinning.
But, when we do sin I John 1 comes into play. I even posted info from a Greek Scholar.

1 John 1:8 is talking about the fact of indwelling sin; which is an element that can be rendered dead within the believer when he is sanctified (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that sin does not have any say over the behaviour of the one who is born again (Romans 6:14).

Thus, 1 John 1:8 does not contradict the reality in 1 John 3:9 that the one who is born of God "cannot sin"...

Because I can have sin dwelling within me without it having the effect of causing me to practically commit sin within my life.

You and I don't have to sin; we are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).

If you don't have to sin; and also don't want to sin; what on any level would be a reason for you to sin?

 

[justbyfaith]

1 John 1:8-10
The Message
8-10 If we claim that we’re free of sin, we’re only fooling ourselves. A claim like that is errant nonsense. On the other hand, if we admit our sins—simply come clean about them—he won’t let us down; he’ll be true to himself. He’ll forgive our sins and purge us of all wrongdoing. If we claim that we’ve never sinned, we out-and-out contradict God—make a liar out of him. A claim like that only shows off our ignorance of God.

Verse 9
Doeth no sin (αμαρτιαν ου ποιε). Linear present active indicative as in verse 1 John 3:4 like αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8. The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

His seed (σπερμα αυτου). God's seed, "the divine principle of life" (Vincent). Cf. 1 John 3:1.

And he cannot sin (κα ου δυνατα αμαρτανειν). This is a wrong translation, for this English naturally means "and he cannot commit sin" as if it were κα ου δυνατα αμαρτειν or αμαρτησα (second aorist or first aorist active infinitive). The present active infinitive αμαρτανειν can only mean "and he cannot go on sinning," as is true of αμαρτανε in verse 1 John 3:8 and αμαρτανων in verse 1 John 3:6. For the aorist subjunctive to commit a sin see αμαρτητε and αμαρτη in 1 John 2:1. A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of αμαρτανειν here. Paul has precisely John's idea in Romans 6:1 επιμενωμεν τη αμαρτια (shall we continue in sin, present active linear subjunctive) in contrast with αμαρτησωμεν in Romans 6:15 (shall we commit a sin, first aorist active subjunctive).
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/1-john-3.html

The meaning of the text is we do not live a lifestyle of sinning.

If I cannot go on sinning, does that not mean that I cannot continue in sin; and that therefore from now to the future I cannot sin?

 

[Dino246]

1 John 1:8 is talking about the fact of indwelling sin

Where is that in Scripture?

 

[mailmandan]

Being inappropriate from the woman's perspective may be completely innocent from the man's perspective...

Just ask Cuomo...

Andrew Cuomo sex-misconduct complaint dismissed by judge

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/andrew-cuomo-sex-misconduct-case-albany-county-dismissed-judge

 

[Nehemiah6]

Andrew Cuomo sex-misconduct complaint dismissed by judge

It seems like all the evildoers are untouchable, but ordinary law-abiding citizens are targets.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If I cannot go on sinning, does that not mean that I cannot continue in sin; and that therefore from now to the future I cannot sin?

You are simply confusing yourself. Kindly take some time to carefully and prayerfully study the first epistle of John.

 

[TheLearner]

well said those who understand what I John is saying.

 

[Marilyn]

The problem is as I see it no fear of the Lord. And that is about to descend upon humanity.

So the main focus is not to get the religious system with it`s predators fixed up but to each attend to our disciples and especially ourselves.

The hour is upon us when we all need to watching eagerly for the Lord`s return and coming together in small groups encouraging and warning one another.

`...exhorting (encouraging and warning) one another and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.` (Heb. 10: 25)

`....To those who eagerly wait for Him he will appear a second time...` (Heb. 9: 28)

 

[Isaskar]

You are correct.

As one preacher put it: "Ever since the internet, we have been baptized... in filth!"

I know I know, it can be used for good, like everything, but lets be honest, we know how large of a % of internet is "That" type of content.

 

[Isaskar]

if we report sexual harassment more often than not it goes nowhere because the male heirarchy just accept it and then blame the WOMEN.

It has always been that way since Jesus stopped the men from stoning the women caught in adultery...when the men were ready to stone her he just asked them were they without sin?

Massively misreported and misused that story.

The issue was the pharisees were trying to trip up Jesus and make him violate the law, over and over again. This was just another attempt.

The law says to bring in both man and woman, they only brought in the woman. Therefore, pharisees didn't go by God's law, but man's tradition and trickery.

 

[justbyfaith]

You are simply confusing yourself. Kindly take some time to carefully and prayerfully study the first epistle of John.

I have studied 1 John many times and do take it at face value.

I do not, as do some, read into the book on the basis of my own experience;

Rather, I judge my experience by the epistle.

 

[Rondonmon]

I mean church leadership and sexual misconduct. All you have to do is check The Roys Report and pretty much every day there's a new story about someone getting busted. It's getting so the Catholic church has nothing on Evangelicals.

My thoughts on what's behind this situation: Internet pornography. It used to be fear of exposure and the financial hit of purchasing pornography kept it in check to a certain degree. Now anyone in complete privacy can watch virtually anything they want free.

In my opinion this should be priority number one for the church. If it's not addressed, a lot more people are going to get hurt and a lot of people's faith will end up shipwrecked.

Remember what Jesus said, Satan accuses the brothers 24/7/365.

I mean, truth is truth, but I am not focused on those who fall but on those God wants to lift up, we all sin, the woman taken in adultery was not stoned because Jesus' words cut them to the bone.

Lets focus on uplifting the church, not dividing it. Not backbiting, agreeing with these WORLDLY Papers and Gossip columns etc. etc.

 

[Tman]

Let priests marry. You'd be surprised how much an outlet will fix that issue.

If only the apostle Paul had not contradicted God/Jesus on the subject of marriage maybe we wouldn't be here......

what else did Paul mess up?

1 Corinthians 7
7 But I wish everyone were single, just as I am. Yet each person has a special gift from God, of one kind or another. 8 So I say to those who aren’t married and to widows—it’s better to stay unmarried, just as I am.

Genesis 2
18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper who is just right for him.”

The Catholic Church and reformation hijacked Gods word and based new doctrine/sect based on their understand of Paul's correspondence

 

[TheLearner]

Remember what Jesus said, Satan accuses the brothers 24/7/365.

I mean, truth is truth, but I am not focused on those who fall but on those God wants to lift up, we all sin, the woman taken in adultery was not stoned because Jesus' words cut them to the bone.

Lets focus on uplifting the church, not dividing it. Not backbiting, agreeing with these WORLDLY Papers and Gossip columns etc. etc.

I am glad he takes a day off every four years.

 

[TheLearner]

Some very young kids were walking down the road last Summer looking at those magazines. I asked them where they got them. Took them away We collected the boxes. I taught them all to use my paper log maker and and we burned them in our fire pit. I explained to them real people don't look like that because of paint brushing of images. And, that all those magazines are good for is camp fires. Some of the Mothers came over later to thank me for the object lesson to their children.

Once while teaching I had students bring in fully clothed body pictures of their grand parents and older family members. Using computer imaging we made pictures making them look fantastic and a lot younger. I had them examine magazine covers for give away traits of paint brushing images like bedroom eyes.