The Wet Paint Principle (Freedom from sin)

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Faithiskey1

Member
#161
Jan 8, 2022
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#161
justbyfaith said:
1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8, He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

I don't know about you; but I do not judge these verses on the basis of my experience; rather I judge my experience on the basis of these verses.
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Im actually surprised you have quoted this again. In a previous conversation I wrote to you:

''my interpretation of 1John 3:9 &1John 1:8 is:
If you aksed most believers if you had to be sinless to be in a saved sate, they would reply ''no'' for they would know they are not perfect in the flesh(1John1:8)
However, if you asked most believers if you can continue to freely live a sinful lifestyle if you are saved, they would also reply 'no'' iJohn3:9

You responded:

I agree with your assessment.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#162
Sep 16, 2021
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#162
Faithiskey1 said:
Be careful, if you take literally that whoever is born of God never commits any sin, and you are stating that to others, you yourself must be judged according to that standard.

The measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you Matt7:2
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Jesus said this,

Jhn 12:47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I believe that Jesus' words can be found even in the epistles; since Jesus is God and all scripture is inspired of God.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1a); for where there is no law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13); and as believers we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

Therefore, there is no condemnation for the believer coming from the law.

While as concerning obedience, believers are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21); that is,

the law is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6)...

So that, as we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#163
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#163
Faithiskey1 said:
Im actually surprised you have quoted this again. In a previous conversation I wrote to you:

''my interpretation of 1John 3:9 &1John 1:8 is:
If you aksed most believers if you had to be sinless to be in a saved sate, they would reply ''no'' for they would know they are not perfect in the flesh(1John1:8)
However, if you asked most believers if you can continue to freely live a sinful lifestyle if you are saved, they would also reply 'no'' iJohn3:9

You responded:

I agree with your assessment.
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Perhaps I misunderstood you.

When you say that believers are not perfect in the flesh, are you referring to a practical unrighteousness?
 
F

Faithiskey1

Member
#164
Jan 8, 2022
124
16
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#164
justbyfaith said:
Jesus said this,

Jhn 12:47, And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48, He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

I believe that Jesus' words can be found even in the epistles; since Jesus is God and all scripture is inspired of God.

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1a); for where there is no law there is no transgression (Romans 4:15); sin is not imputed where there is no law (Romans 5:13); and as believers we are not under the law (Romans 6:14) are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19) and are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6).

Therefore, there is no condemnation for the believer coming from the law.

While as concerning obedience, believers are under the law to Christ (1 Corinthians 9:21); that is,

the law is written on our hearts and in our minds (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5; 1 John 2:3-6)...

So that, as we walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit, the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us (Romans 8:4).
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Great doctrine, except, in yours and my humanity we never perfectly without deviation follow the manual as it were.
 
F

Faithiskey1

Member
#165
Jan 8, 2022
124
16
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#165
justbyfaith said:
Perhaps i misunderstood you.

When you say that believers are not perfect in the flesh, are you referring to a practical unrighteousness?
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Your righteousness is faith in Christ, it has nothing to do with being imperfect in your flesh. Only if you live under righteousness of obeying the law can you be unrighteous through not being perfect in your flesh
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#166
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
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#166
Faithiskey1 said:
Your righteousness is faith in Christ, it has nothing to do with being imperfect in your flesh. Only if you live under righteousness of obeying the law can you be unrighteous through not being perfect in your flesh
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Does being imperfect in the flesh amount to practically being unrighteous, in your opinion?

Or, do you believe, as I do that the imperfection (sin) in my flesh, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14)?
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#167
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
462
83
#167
Faithiskey1 said:
Great doctrine, except, in yours and my humanity we never perfectly without deviation follow the manual as it were.
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It is not the manual that we are to follow after; but the Spirit of the one who wrote it.

Don't get me wrong, everything we need to know about the One who wrote the manual is definitely in the manual; so that we are in desperate need of understanding what is written to us in it.
 
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Faithiskey1

Member
#168
Jan 8, 2022
124
16
18
#168
justbyfaith said:
Does being imperfect in the flesh amount to practically being unrighteous, in your opinion?

Or, do you believe, as I do that the imperfection (sin) in my flesh, can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour (Romans 6:14)?
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Ive already answered the first part. Sin does have an affect over a persons behaviour, obviously.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#169
Sep 16, 2021
4,707
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#169
Faithiskey1 said:
Your righteousness is faith in Christ, it has nothing to do with being imperfect in your flesh. Only if you live under righteousness of obeying the law can you be unrighteous through not being perfect in your flesh
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There is something odd about what you are saying; I can't put my finger on it; but I think that it is false doctrine.
 
F

Faithiskey1

Member
#170
Jan 8, 2022
124
16
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#170
justbyfaith said:
It is not the manual that we are to follow after; but the Spirit of the one who wrote it.

Don't get me wrong, everything we need to know about the One who wrote the manual is definitely in the manual; so that we are in desperate need of understanding what is written to us in it.
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The problem for some on websites such as these is, they make a god out of theology. Their heads are just full of it. They have no time to see the actual reality of their lives.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#171
Sep 16, 2021
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#171
Faithiskey1 said:
Ive already answered the first part. Sin does have an affect over a persons behaviour, obviously.
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I would say that that is not always the case.

For the element of sin can be rendered dead in you (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it will not any longer have any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#173
Sep 16, 2021
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#173
Faithiskey1 said:
The problem for some on websites such as these is, they make a god out of theology. Their heads are just full of it. They have no time to see the actual reality of their lives.
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The Holy Spirit is able to pinpoint sin in our lives when it is present (1 John 1:7).
 
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Faithiskey1

Member
#174
Jan 8, 2022
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#174
justbyfaith said:
I would say that that is not always the case.

For the element of sin can be rendered dead in you (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it will not any longer have any say over your behaviour (Romans 6:14).
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If you believe a christian who commits sin does not find this reflected in their behaviour, I see no point in continuing this line
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#175
Sep 16, 2021
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#175
Faithiskey1 said:
Your righteousness is faith in Christ, it has nothing to do with being imperfect in your flesh. Only if you live under righteousness of obeying the law can you be unrighteous through not being perfect in your flesh
Click to expand...
justbyfaith said:
There is something odd about what you are saying; I can't put my finger on it; but I think that it is false doctrine.
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Faithiskey1 said:
Well when you put your finger on it let me know
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I believe that righteousness through faith in Christ obtains the promises of the Lord (Romans 4:20-22). This is the kind of faith that procures imputed righteousness.

Such promises as I have mentioned (in the kjv) (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11; Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT); 1 John 1:5 and 3:5 in light of 1 John 5:20, 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 1:30, 1 Peter 5:14).

In order to understand what I am saying you may have to look up the verses.
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#176
Sep 16, 2021
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#176
Faithiskey1 said:
If you believe a christian who commits sin does not find this reflected in their behaviour, I see no point in continuing this line
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Obviously, a Christian who commits sin, it will be reflected in his behaviour.

The Christian who merely has indwelling sin, it may not be reflected in his behaviour.

For the element of indwelling sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8 so that it no longer has any say over his behaviour (Romans 6:14).

We are not obligated to obey the flesh (Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT)).
 
J

justbyfaith

Well-known member
#177
Sep 16, 2021
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#177
I would identify a Christian as anyone who says to Jesus, Lord, lord...

I would not therefore identify every Christian as bound for heaven (Matthew 7:21-23).
 
F

Faithiskey1

Member
#178
Jan 8, 2022
124
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#178
justbyfaith said:
I believe that righteousness through faith in Christ obtains the promises of the Lord (Romans 4:20-22). This is the kind of faith that procures imputed righteousness.

Such promises as I have mentioned (in the kjv) (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24, Hebrews 10:14, 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11; Romans 8:12 (kjv, NLT); 1 John 1:5 and 3:5 in light of 1 John 5:20, 1 Corinthians 1:2, 1 Corinthians 1:30, 1 Peter 5:14).

In order to understand what I am saying you may have to look up the verses.
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This is what I think. Many say they believe in a righteousness/justification by faith in Christ. But, do they believe that for the whole of a persons life? Or, in reality do they only believe it at the point of conversion? If I started chatting to you, and I had only just become a christian, I would take the view I was justified at conversion solely by faith in Christ, but my continued salvation will hinge on observing the law. So I would start out under righteousness of faith in Christ, and end up under righteousness of obeying the law. For however you are interpreting scripture, it seems to me that is what you are stating
 
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justbyfaith

Well-known member
#179
Sep 16, 2021
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#179
No, righteousness begins with faith, ends with faith, and is by faith all the way through (Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:1-3, Colossians 2:6).

But I would say that faith obtains holiness that cleanses not only the outside of the cup and platter; but the inside also.

Therefore we do not continue our Christian walk from justification by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts.

Rather, we obtain the Spirit by faith (Galatians 3:14) and as we walk according to the Spirit and its fruit, there is no law that will condemn us in our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23). For the fruit of the Spirit is, among other things, goodness; and if I am good I will not violate anything in the law; for the law is given to condemn that which is evil.
 
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