Tithing/Giving in the New Testament

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Jan 14, 2021
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#61
"Thou shalt not steal" was that discontinued at the Cross? It was Law, right?

By your definition that commandment no longer exists.

There are some things that have carried over from the Old to the New.

The main carry over was justification by faith, as was seen in Abraham.
Law of Moses vs Law of Christ
 
Dec 29, 2021
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#62
The tithe that Jesus paid was to the poor, not to the temple that disgraced Him.

I think we can safely say without fear of exaggerating that Jesus gave to the poor from John 13:29,

"For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor."
lol, it's a 50/50 chance it means what you claim.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#63
It's common sense. The moral laws of the Law of Moses were carried over into the New Covenant.

It was wrong to steal, murder, etc, etc, 3000 years ago and it's still wrong today.

Those laws are still in force. I used for example that justification by faith being in effect before, during, and after the Law.

Just as the tithe was in effect before, during, and after the Law.

But man desires to rid himself of this responsibility of supporting the Gospel, except when it's convenient to do so.
New Covenant, new contract. The terms of the contract might have some overlap, but simply because some elements of the OT law were reiterated does not mean that the whole OT law suddenly applies. We should look to the NT for moral direction, not the OT (unless through the lens of the NT). Do what you feel is right. It might be right for you to donate and not for someone else.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#64
You really should do your homework before you embarrass yourself.

Jesus could not give donated money to the poor and consider it a "tithe". Firstly, the tithe was not payable on donated money (if you think it is, find it in the Law!); and secondly, the tithe was to be given to the Levites, who would then give it to the poor.

Aside from being inconsistent with Scripture, your assertion is entirely speculative and has absolutely no evidentiary value.
Gen. 14:19-20

"And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."

Melchizedek was a type of Christ and Abraham gave a tithe (a tenth) of all that he had.

The purpose of the tithe in the Law was to feed and care for the poor. This was done by animal sacrifices, along with grain and drink sacrifices. This is the principle of Malachi.

By the time Jesus came the temple was completely corrupted and polluted. The religious leaders had appointed money-changers that were no doubt cheating people through the exchange of money and animals for sacrifice. The true meaning of the tithe was lost. They were not paying tithes themselves, only in part.

Jesus gave back that meaning by helping the poor, as the Church is to do from the tithes we pay. This is the principle that Christ taught.

As I said before as to this being a tithe, I don't know. I have no proof this could be called a tithe.
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#65
New Covenant, new contract. The terms of the contract might have some overlap, but simply because some elements of the OT law were reiterated does not mean that the whole OT law suddenly applies. We should look to the NT for moral direction, not the OT (unless through the lens of the NT). Do what you feel is right. It might be right for you to donate and not for someone else.
I certainly don't want to explain to Christ why I didn't support the Church He died to create.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#66
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." - Romans 13:8

One might give their money out of charity, but it is important to emphasize that the NT tells us to avoid debt. If you make 40k a year but owe 100k, you shouldn't be unlovingly donating any of your income because none of that money is really yours to begin with. If something comes from the heart, that might be a different story.

Money also is just a placeholder for value, if you happen to be an employer that through your built up value have given a means for other people to live, you are in essence sharing that value. It becomes an odd equation to look at when on paper you are "rich" but that value is based on infrastructure, employees, and business assets that you just happen to call the shots on. Should a business owner 'tithe' the wealth that they have built up in their company? Or can a business owner choose to continue to reinvest to help build up the lives of those that are supported and live by that business growth? What if that business owner is in the same boat as the employees: buried in debt? There is seemingly some room for interpretation in these cases.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#67
I certainly don't want to explain to Christ why I didn't support the Church He died to create.
A church not held together by love doesn't seem like much of a church. If the love in your heart leads you to donate to your church, that is the right thing to do. But should anyone donate lovelessly?
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#68
"Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law." - Romans 13:8

One might give their money out of charity, but it is important to emphasize that the NT tells us to avoid debt. If you make 40k a year but owe 100k, you shouldn't be unlovingly donating any of your income because none of that money is really yours to begin with. If something comes from the heart, that might be a different story.

Money also is just a placeholder for value, if you happen to be an employer that through your built up value have given a means for other people to live, you are in essence sharing that value. It becomes an odd equation to look at when on paper you are "rich" but that value is based on infrastructure, employees, and business assets that you just happen to call the shots on. Should a business owner 'tithe' the wealth that they have built up in their company? Or can a business owner choose to continue to reinvest to help build up the lives of those that are supported and live by that business growth? What if that business owner is in the same boat as the employees: buried in debt? There is seemingly some room for interpretation in these cases.
Is 10% of your profits to much of God to ask? Some may have to lower their standard of living if they can't afford that.

But of course that is if Jesus is more important than the money. To some I suppose He is not.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#69
Is 10% of your profits to much of God to ask? Some may have to lower their standard of living if they can't afford that.

But of course that is if Jesus is more important than the money. To some I suppose He is not.
If it's not your money, it's not yours to give

"Profit"

That is a very interesting word choice because by definition those in debt have not reached the point of being profitable. They merely have a positive net income. If one has a negative profit, can they then ask for 10% of the value of their debts from the church on a yearly basis?
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#70
Yes, you can figure from a business standpoint that profit is not profit and is actually a loss. It's done every day in the legal world.

That is between you and the Lord.
 
Jan 14, 2021
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#71
That is between you and the Lord.
"Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." - Romans 14:4 NIV
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#72
"Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand." - Romans 14:4 NIV
I'm not judging, just expressing what I believe is scriptural. As I have said, your decisions are between you and the Lord.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#73
Is 10% of your profits to much of God to ask? Some may have to lower their standard of living if they can't afford that.

But of course that is if Jesus is more important than the money. To some I suppose He is not.
10% of profits/post tax income is still significant. I would say it is close to 35% to 100% of the "true" profit, after paying all bills (rent, utilities, food, etc.). So, if a person has 20% left over after paying all bills, 10% would mean half of what he has left. I think people would give a lot more if most of the money was going straight to poor/needy/benevolence.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#74
Gen. 14:19-20

"And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:

And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all."

Melchizedek was a type of Christ and Abraham gave a tithe (a tenth) of all that he had.
No; Abraham gave Melchizedek one tenth of the war spoils. Read the text more carefully.

The purpose of the tithe in the Law was to feed and care for the poor. This was done by animal sacrifices, along with grain and drink sacrifices. This is the principle of Malachi.
No; its first purpose was to provide food for the Levites. Read the text more carefully.


Jesus gave back that meaning by helping the poor, as the Church is to do from the tithes we pay. This is the principle that Christ taught. This was done by animal sacrifices, along with grain and drink sacrifices. This is the principle of Malachi.
No, Jesus did not teach any such thing. Read the text more carefully, and don't inject things into the text that aren't there.

As I said before as to this being a tithe, I don't know. I have no proof this could be called a tithe.
Correct, finally! There is hope. :)
 

Charlie24

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
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#75
10% of profits/post tax income is still significant. I would say it is close to 35% to 100% of the "true" profit, after paying all bills (rent, utilities, food, etc.). So, if a person has 20% left over after paying all bills, 10% would mean half of what he has left. I think people would give a lot more if most of the money was going straight to poor/needy/benevolence.
I think they would too! I look at tithing as a test of faith. But that's me, I don't expect everyone to see it that way.
 
T

TheIndianGirl

Guest
#76
I go back and forth on the tithe. The tithe feels like a monthly bill first Sunday of the month, more than anything else. Does anyone else feel this way? I do understand that paying tithe shows that one is committed to the church, and funds are necessary to keep the church running. At the same, I have always been uneasy on how we have to be loyal to a specific congregation; otherwise giving time or money to another church feels a bit adulterous. Personally I feel much more charitable when a specific need arises, and I contribute towards that cause.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#77
I go back and forth on the tithe. The tithe feels like a monthly bill first Sunday of the month, more than anything else. Does anyone else feel this way? I do understand that paying tithe shows that one is committed to the church, and funds are necessary to keep the church running. At the same, I have always been uneasy on how we have to be loyal to a specific congregation; otherwise giving time or money to another church feels a bit adulterous. Personally I feel much more charitable when a specific need arises, and I contribute towards that cause.
The problem is that you are trying to follow a legal requirement instead of giving from your heart. For the Christian, the legal requirement does not exist, though many believe it does. If you think you are required to surrender a certain amount or percentage to your local church, of course it is going to feel like a bill... because it is! That's not how it should be though, according to Scripture.

If you are committed to a local fellowship, then it is right to give a significant portion of your "donation budget" to that fellowship. If not, then give a lesser portion when you happen to attend, and a larger portion to other Christian-consistent causes that God puts on your heart.

I would encourage you to stop calling your monetary donations "tithes", because it only confuses the issue. Christians are not required to "tithe" at all, though we are strongly encouraged to give. Remember; God wants you to give cheerfully, not reluctantly or under compulsion. :)