Works

[peldom10]

Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God.; (1 John 5:1-5)

Believe- Present tense.

Has been born of God. PERFECT PASSIVE, meaning that it is a completed, finished work accomplished in the past, and that the believer is the receiver of the action, not the doer and God is the one who begets him......

You are not acknowledging what ...ed...saved...means.
It is done, history, archives, can't be changed.Then what is God judging us for after death? (remember...it is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement).

You haven'answered that question yet. We are..... born again..... while here on this earth.
Saved when God says so after His judgment.

 

[OIC1965]

You are not acknowledging what ...ed...saved...means.
It is done, history, archives, can't be changed.Then what is God judging us for after death? (remember...it is appointed unto man once to die...then the judgement).

You haven'answered that question yet. We are..... born again..... while here on this earth.
Saved when God says so after His judgment.

God will judge our works. Now if our works are the determinant of our salvation, it follows that we are saved by works. But the scriptures say we are saved by Grace not of works.

Our works will determine our rewards.

 

[OIC1965]

DOesnot do it.
I John 5;1 says that we will be saved.....IF.
Repent
Baptized
Live righteous until death ( maintain) will be saved.. (until judgement we are born again).

1 John 5:1 says none of that.

 

[JesusLives]

I wonder if there are any Christians who give a rip about the way the Lord looks at our works? According to polls, the Jews are rewarded by their works, although they also, at the same time, earn death through their denial of Christ.

There is a book (I lost it) written by a Jewish lady who converted to Christianity, telling of the difference. The major difference was that as a Jew everything she did related to God from washing hands, eating, to going to bed at night. As a Christian, there was no tie between living her life and worshipping God, it was something she added.

Those Jews who are working to obey the Lord even though they do not obey that they are to accept Christ are, according to polls, reaping great rewards in all ways except eternal life from friends and family, to wealth, to honors they are given. Christians could have these same rewards on top of the major reward of eternal life if we would open our eyes to the advantages of works.

Christians pat themselves on the back for knowing that God looks at faith, not works, when God decides about forgiving us for our sins. No Christian has works as a goal for their life. Eternal life is more important than this life, checking our faith first is most reasonable. However, it is in scripture that we are told there is a reward here on earth for our works. Scripture telling us of the fruits of the spirit is one.

Scripture telling us this is most plainly put in the old testament and it is part of the covenant we call the old covenant. That covenant has been improved by the Lord and some say God took it back, claiming the Lord tells us it is no more. I don’t think that is true at all, God improved it. I think God is eternal and never takes back something he gave us in eternity. Some say God promised salvation through works, but there is no scripture anywhere to back this up but there is scripture saying it is an eternal principle that works never has or will result in salvation as part of the rewards.

Are there any Christians who would consider taking a new way of looking at works?

Malachi 3:16-18 16Then those who feared the LORD talked with each other, and the LORD listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the LORD and honored his name. 17"On the day when I act," says the LORD Almighty, "they will be my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as a father has compassion and spares his son who serves him. 18And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.


I just had a thought as I was reading your post. It says in the Bible there is a Book of Remembrance and I am wondering what is written in that book? Maybe deeds we have done for the Lord for the right reasons? Are those deeds works?

 

[peldom10]

1 John 5:1 says none of that.

You are missing the point.

 

[TMS]

God will judge our works. Now if our works are the determinant of our salvation, it follows that we are saved by works. But the scriptures say we are saved by Grace not of works.

Our works will determine our rewards.

Faith and works are inseparable.

Faith without works is dead.
If we have faith that Jesus has saved us and is able to recreate us we will show it in our works.
If we say we have faith and do not have any works and live like the faithless, the faith is dead.

Noah believed and built and a boat, he also preached for years while being persecuted for his works and faith.
Abraham believed and his actions revealed his faith.

Faith and works can not be separated, they are connected and it is faith that saves us and by faith we are able to do works.

 

[TheLearner]

Clement of Rome: “Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, “Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.” All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ANF: Vol. I, The Apostolic Fathers, First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Chapter 32.https://www.apuritansmind.com/justi...stification-compiled-by-dr-c-matthew-mcmahon/

 

[tourist]

I just had a thought as I was reading your post. It says in the Bible there is a Book of Remembrance and I am wondering what is written in that book? Maybe deeds we have done for the Lord for the right reasons? Are those deeds works?

For sure, those works were memorable to make it into that book.

 

[OIC1965]

Faith and works are inseparable.

Faith without works is dead.
If we have faith that Jesus has saved us and is able to recreate us we will show it in our works.
If we say we have faith and do not have any works and live like the faithless, the faith is dead.

Noah believed and built and a boat, he also preached for years while being persecuted for his works and faith.
Abraham believed and his actions revealed his faith.

Faith and works can not be separated, they are connected and it is faith that saves us and by faith we are able to do works.

Ok, all true. But how many works did you have to do to receive God’s salvation?

I’m talking about “what saves?”

The moment we believed, We were saved, born of God, justified, washed, adopted, sealed, etc.

If you’re waiting for judgement day to be declared righteous before God, you are seeking the wrong righteousness. Because God requires utter perfection, and none of us are or can be utterly perfect. That’s why we need Jesus.

If we could be justified by our works, Christ died in vain. Christ did not die in vain.

The imputed righteousness of Christ alone can save. If it were up to our works, God would require perfection, for He is Holy, and we would split hell wide open.

Not only do we need forgiveness, we also need perfect righteousness. We cannot attain that, so we trust in what Christ has done. His Righteousness.

 

[OIC1965]

Clement of Rome: “Whosoever will candidly consider each particular, will recognize the greatness of the gifts which were given by him. For from him have sprung the priests and all the Levites who minister at the altar of God. From him also [was descended] our Lord Jesus Christ according to the flesh. From him [arose] kings, princes, and rulers of the race of Judah. Nor are his other tribes in small glory, inasmuch as God had promised, “Thy seed shall be as the stars of heaven.” All these, therefore, were highly honored, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. ANF: Vol. I, The Apostolic Fathers, First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians, Chapter 32.https://www.apuritansmind.com/justi...stification-compiled-by-dr-c-matthew-mcmahon/

I would just change “ justified all men” to “justified all who believe”. (I think that’s what he meant, but some people will misunderstand his words). Excellent words otherwise

 

[TMS]

If we have true faith it results in works and the works will not make us clean or guiltless before God because we can not save ourselves.
The works are the Spirit of Jesus in us that we are given because we choose to believe by faith that Jesus saves.
No Glory to self and Glory to Jesus.

Justification is forgiveness of the past sins and sanctification is Jesus in us, helping us to do His will preventing present sins, Glorification is Gods power to recreate us so that no sin ever rises again. This all happens by faith but the result is works of righteousness.

Works will always be present in the faithful.

 

[TMS]

Ok, all true. But how many works did you have to do to receive God’s salvation?

My works do nothing to save, it is Jesus and His works and righteousness that saves. My faith in Jesus and His gift of salvation is what saves. My point is that faith will always result in works and you can't have true faith without having works.

 

[Amanuensis]

9Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them. 10We have an altar from which those who serve the tenta have no right to eat. 11For the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the holy places by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp. 12So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. 13Therefore let us go to him outside the camp and bear the reproach he endured. 14For here we have no lasting city, but we seek the city that is to come.

At the time this was written there were those that taught that christians should do things like observe the feasts, and these observances would give them spiritual benifits, they even taught that some of these feasts should be observed in Jerusalem to get the full spiritual meaning and benifits.

Today we have these gentiles christians who want to learn from rabbis and Jewish observers about how Jesus can be understood better by observing these old traditions even taking on things from the mishnah written two centuries after the Church began. These teachings that we can somehow get a better revelation of Jesus through observing Jewish customs is the same teaching that the writer of Hebrews warned against.

Out hearts are not strengthened by observing these feasts, or eating these foods or having someone teach us their meanings from a Christian perspective..., our hearts are strengthened by grace.

We have an altar, and those that try and find spiritual strength by observing the old Judaism have no right to eat from this altar.

We don't need to observe Jewish traditions or OT legal ordinances to experience a fuller revelation of Jesus and we certainly don't need to go to Jerusalem to get the full impact... Jesus was sacrificed OUT SIDE of that city and we should reject the teachings that say that we should observe these feasts for spiritual strength or that we should observe them in a certain way, day or city.

We should go to him who is OUTSIDE the City and OUTSIDE of the old system of Judaism and bear his reproach.

DO NOT let any man teach you to observe these old customs to be be More knowledgeable or spiritual. They are not understanding that shadows can never teach the full revelation like Going to JESUS HIMSELF can.

We don't need a shadow of the types found in the Passover Supper as that can never give the full revelation of Jesus who is more than that lamb at passover. Way too much is taught from these Hebrew roots tradition teachings that is neither biblical or even factual. Jews don't even agree with the interpretations that are being promoted about these traditions by Hebrew Roots teachers.

That lamb was not Jesus. It was remembered every year because it was not sufficient. Don't go backwards in observing an insufficient shadow and call it a memorial or honoring Jesus, it is not honoring Jesus it is staying in a system he said to COME OUT OF, and go to Him who is OUTSIDE THE CAMP! Bear the reproach that will be heaped upon you as they accuse you of rejecting Moses and the Law. You should expect such false accusation, they did it to Him. Bear His reproach and forget about Jerusalem having some kind of magic for we have NO CONTINUOUING CITY but we look for one to come.

If you read Heb 13:7-14 and reference a few good commentaries you will reject most of the "Hebrew Roots messianic" teachings that are popular on the internet.

 

[OIC1965]

Ok, all true. But how many works did you have to do to receive God’s salvation?

I’m talking about “what saves?”

The moment we believed, We were saved, born of God, justified, washed, adopted, sealed, etc.

If you’re waiting for judgement day to be declared righteous before God, you are seeking the wrong righteousness. Because God requires utter perfection, and none of us are or can be utterly perfect. That’s why we need Jesus.

If we could be justified by our works, Christ died in vain. Christ did not die in vain.

The imputed righteousness of Christ alone can save. If it were up to our works, God would require perfection, for He is Holy, and we would split hell wide open.

Not only do we need forgiveness, we also need perfect righteousness. We cannot attain that, so we trust in what Christ has done. His Righteousness.

Ok, all true. But how many works did you have to do to receive God’s salvation?

I’m talking about “what saves?”

The moment we believed, We were saved, born of God, justified, washed, adopted, sealed, etc.

If you’re waiting for judgement day to be declared righteous before God, you are seeking the wrong righteousness. Because God requires utter perfection, and none of us are or can be utterly perfect. That’s why we need Jesus.

If we could be justified by our works, Christ died in vain. Christ did not die in vain.

The imputed righteousness of Christ alone can save. If it were up to our works, God would require perfection, for He is Holy, and we would split hell wide open.

Not only do we need forgiveness, we also need perfect righteousness. We cannot attain that, so we trust in what Christ has done. His Righteousness.

Addendum. So those who are saved should be zealous of good works and careful to maintain good works, for we were created in Christ Jesus unto good works. Yet our works, no matter how good or how great are imperfect and only acceptable because of our faith in Christ. And we place no confidence in our works to save us, for they are imperfect and our live is imperfect, yet we trust and have confidence in the work that Christ has done. And this confidence is what frees us from bondage into the liberty of serving the LIVING GOD.

 

[OIC1965]

My works do nothing to save, it is Jesus and His works and righteousness that saves. My faith in Jesus and His gift of salvation is what saves. My point is that faith will always result in works and you can't have true faith without having works.

I agree. And those who are saved have (present tense) eternal life.

My earlier reply to was to a post where someone said “ you’re not saved until judgement day.

The Bible says by Grace we have been saved. (Perfect tense)

So I was disagreeing with that position, not yours.

And we don’t want to base our assurance of salvation on our works, because that can give no assurance. Only a perfect work by a perfect savior can give assurance.

 

[Amanuensis]

There is a book (I lost it) written by a Jewish lady who converted to Christianity, telling of the difference. The major difference was that as a Jew everything she did related to God from washing hands, eating, to going to bed at night. As a Christian, there was no tie between living her life and worshipping God, it was something she added.

What does that mean? She didn't have any rituals to observe after she became a Christian? I don't understand your point.

People who get born again and filled with the Holy Spirit through Faith in Jesus Christ make Jesus their life 24x7. There is never a moment that they live that they are not doing it for His Glory. Not just when they are at church or doing a ritual.

She was only relating to God when she did a ritual. Christians never stop relating their moment by moment existence to God and never stop fellowshipping with Him. They don't compartmentalize that into rituals only. Sounds like she was not sure about this relationship thing and was looking for new rituals to observe and could not find enough to compare with her old ones.

And that is the folly of Hebrew Roots movement teachings. Never try to mix Judaism rituals with Christianity. Never try and make up new ones and Christianize them. It takes away from JESUS as the focus.

 

[TMS]

If you’re waiting for judgement day to be declared righteous before God, you are seeking the wrong righteousness. Because God requires utter perfection, and none of us are or can be utterly perfect. That’s why we need Jesus.

If you believe once saved always saves, that is another subject.
when are we declared righteous? at what point are we able to reject salvation?

the Judgement is the point when we are declared saved or unsaved. We can be saved in Christ while waiting for the judgement knowing that Jesus will cover us with His righteousness, but we can also choose to reject salvation at any stage until we no longer have a choice.

Jesus is our perfection, we will be judged as perfect like Jesus because of imputed righteousness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Are those deeds works?

DEEDS = WORKS = DEEDS = ACTIONS

 

[Nehemiah6]

when are we declared righteous?

The moment you believe God, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, repent, and receive Him as your Lord and Savior, you are declared righteous. God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who obeys the Gospel. See Romans 4. This is justification by grace through faith.

at what point are we able to reject salvation?

When you hear the Gospel, you can either accept salvation or reject it. But God -- in His grace and mercy -- generally gives sinners several opportunities to repent. But once you harden your heart, there is no further opportunity. Indeed, response to the Gospel should really be the first time one hears it. Since it is commanded by God.

 

[OIC1965]

If you believe once saved always saves, that is another subject.
when are we declared righteous? at what point are we able to reject salvation?

the Judgement is the point when we are declared saved or unsaved. We can be saved in Christ while waiting for the judgement knowing that Jesus will cover us with His righteousness, but we can also choose to reject salvation at any stage until we no longer have a choice.

Jesus is our perfection, we will be judged as perfect like Jesus because of imputed righteousness.

We are declared righteous when we believe. Romans 4:16-25.

I do not debate “once saved always saved” pro or con anymore. I have been on both sides in my lifetime. I am secure in Christ and He said that “everyone whom the Father has given Him, He will lose none”. He is my security and my assurance and my High Priest . I trust Him to keep me, and in that I am safe and secure. I am kept by the power of God through faith, and Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. Being confident that God will complete the good work He began in me.