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No ones forcing you to stay a christian 
Go ahead and try being an atheist for awhile, or whatever you want to be. I've turned my back on Christianity a couple times, ok maybe more than a couple times in the past. We all have freewill right? God doesn't want you to feel you HAVE to be christian.
You seem to know what the rules of christianity are and have decided that its not for you. Thats fine. I know that nothing anyone can say will change your mind. No one is going to punish you or laugh at you for walking away from the faith. Everyone has their reasons. We have a reason for staying, you have a reason for leaving.
Theres no point in arguing about it....that goes for everyone. A heart thats set is a heart thats SET. If you want to walk away then go for it. Chrisitanity is not for everyone. No one said it was logically sound and made perfect sense. If it was, we wouldn't need faith
Note: Im not trying to get rid of you. Im just saying that this going back and forth about it is really just wasting everyone's time and energy.
Go ahead and try being an atheist for awhile, or whatever you want to be. I've turned my back on Christianity a couple times, ok maybe more than a couple times in the past. We all have freewill right? God doesn't want you to feel you HAVE to be christian.You seem to know what the rules of christianity are and have decided that its not for you. Thats fine. I know that nothing anyone can say will change your mind. No one is going to punish you or laugh at you for walking away from the faith. Everyone has their reasons. We have a reason for staying, you have a reason for leaving.
Theres no point in arguing about it....that goes for everyone. A heart thats set is a heart thats SET. If you want to walk away then go for it. Chrisitanity is not for everyone. No one said it was logically sound and made perfect sense. If it was, we wouldn't need faith
Note: Im not trying to get rid of you. Im just saying that this going back and forth about it is really just wasting everyone's time and energy.
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Don't forget there is also a fine line between declaring yourself to be non-judgmental and a complete moral blank. To me your arguments are going to the moral blank side with your vigour for immediate and complete forgiveness for sexual sins. Also makes me wonder, do you ALSO insist upon defending more politically correct "sins"? My experience with "let's quickly forgive and forget" all sexual sin types is that they generally are very quick to outright condemn anything they perceive as "racist" even though the same Christian principle would demand the same immediate forgiveness.
And this point further establishes my view earlier on this thread that it is misguided to think that those who have violated God's laws by having pre-marital sex are the ones taking most of the scorn from present day society. IT ISN'T. For whatever reasons, there are many that absolutely despise virgins or those that call for chastity. So I get very annoyed at those trying to place the double burden on virgins. Sorry, guys but it is NOT a virgin's duty to fall all over a non-virgin with instant "christian love and forgiveness" just because YOU can't keep your pants up or your skirt down.
Yeah, well, IF I truly ever abandon the faith, hopefully it will actually be due to the bible itself and not from putting up with the increasing bands of feel good politically correct Christians and their attempts to force man made beliefs on true believers.
Im glad there are guys out there that will only date virgins. It means less competition for me
...and in my opinion, those guys are probably not the most wonderful dates either, ladies.
...and in my opinion, those guys are probably not the most wonderful dates either, ladies.
No ones forcing you to stay a christian Go ahead and try being an atheist for awhile, or whatever you want to be. I've turned my back on Christianity a couple times, ok maybe more than a couple times in the past. We all have freewill right? God doesn't want you to feel you HAVE to be christian.
You seem to know what the rules of christianity are and decided that its not for you. Thats fine. I know that nothing anyone can say will change your mind. No one is going to punish you or laugh at you for walking away from the faith. Everyone has their reasons. We have a reason for staying, you have a reason for leaving.
Theres no point in arguing about it....that goes for everyone. A heart thats set is a heart thats SET. If you want to walk away then go for it. Chrisitanity is not for everyone. No one said it was logically sound and made perfect sense. If it was, we wouldn't need faith
Note: Im not trying to get rid of you. Im just saying that this going back and forth about it is really just wasting everyone's time and energy.
Go ahead and try being an atheist for awhile, or whatever you want to be. I've turned my back on Christianity a couple times, ok maybe more than a couple times in the past. We all have freewill right? God doesn't want you to feel you HAVE to be christian.You seem to know what the rules of christianity are and decided that its not for you. Thats fine. I know that nothing anyone can say will change your mind. No one is going to punish you or laugh at you for walking away from the faith. Everyone has their reasons. We have a reason for staying, you have a reason for leaving.
Theres no point in arguing about it....that goes for everyone. A heart thats set is a heart thats SET. If you want to walk away then go for it. Chrisitanity is not for everyone. No one said it was logically sound and made perfect sense. If it was, we wouldn't need faith
Note: Im not trying to get rid of you. Im just saying that this going back and forth about it is really just wasting everyone's time and energy.
wow...I give up. You either read selectively or add words....*sigh* Zero, is right. Your naivete is somewhat endearing at times, but enough is enough.
Some folks have to learn the hard way. Some of us were hoping to spare you that. I'm out....
Some folks have to learn the hard way. Some of us were hoping to spare you that.
I'm out....
Attrition is good. What can I say?
To sum up now that you're out I think the problems for you were as follows:
First off, you insisted that no one could set a virginal standard or else this would be "judging". I said that it really was more of a reasonable expectation for another virgin, justified by the bible, or in matters of relationships people basically did and are free to place all sorts of criteria and restrictions that are completely separate from those used by God on who gets into heaven and who doesn't. You relented eventually for whatever reason.
However, you continued with your second point. This being that you were very concerned about the feelings of people who have already committed the sin of pre-marital sex. I understand the concept of "love the sinner, not the sin." However, by the sheer insistance of your arguments for immediate and continual forgiveness for sexual sins, it is my position that you are in fact trying to justify this particular SIN. You don't want anyone to have any regrets or face any social stigma. Yet at the same time, you seem more than willing to leave virgins on their own regarding what I call the much more harsh social stigmas of society. I call it even more scandalous that you want to burden virgins with guilt for looking for a partner that maintained their purity like they have. Then you say "well, we are all sinners." True. I mysefl consider myself complete trash. Happy now? Just the same, the context you say this in seems to be a complete "let it all slide". Yet when I tried to find other sins you might be willing to forgive, you hedged. This leads me to the final conclusion that despite some of your arguments, you really just don't think that pre-martial sex is a sin and you feel it is everybody's responsibilty to overlook it... and if anyone doesn't,well, there is something wrong with them. So in the end, while you kept saying that we actually agree, we are in complete disagreement and have been from the start.
Finally, your use of the word "naivette" leads me to believe that your problems in discussions are that you hold yourself for whatever reason as looking down on other people in this chat forum.
S
Hey, I'm really sorry to 'bump' this up or anything. But I just read through this and I just wanted to say sorry. I didn't realise I would cause an argument over this, so I'm really sorry for that. Someone said on one of the earlier pages that topics like this cause young women who have a past involving sexual sin to feel unworthy or never be able to find a christian man, and may cause them to go back to that past life. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly sorry if I did that I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
K
Hey, I'm really sorry to 'bump' this up or anything. But I just read through this and I just wanted to say sorry. I didn't realise I would cause an argument over this, so I'm really sorry for that. Someone said on one of the earlier pages that topics like this cause young women who have a past involving sexual sin to feel unworthy or never be able to find a christian man, and may cause them to go back to that past life. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly sorry if I did that I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
What you are feeling is totally normal. I think the message people tried to tell you is that if that bothers you so much, then you shouldn't jump in a relationship. It would make more harm for you and for her later in the relationship.
If you decide she is worth it, and she has other things that makes her a suitable christian partner for you; then you should start working in that issue and praying , so it doesn't become a problem for both of you as a christian couple.
Pray God for guidance
God bless you.Skater 20, quit with all the crying already, you didn't really cause anything. What you were questioning was and is something that you can find many places on the internet. I'm sorry to hear that the moral blanks have convinced you that being a moral blank is the way to go. While you have adopted the lame position that any attempt to have moral standards causes people to "backslide" you apparently don't get the concept that those who want instant forgiveness but ONLY for sins they think should be forgiven cause people to not even worry about treating them as sins in the first place.
If you think you should allow someone to cheat on you constantly and all you are going to do is fall all over yourself with apologies that you're not quick enough to forgive her, you really should stay single because you lack as both a man and a christian. Maybe you could even join a nice hippie colony.
Since I live in a society where pre-marital sex and even cheating have no penalty anymore including social stigma, I don't see reason to have all of this "mercy" for the sinner when its the persecuted, not the sinner who is taking all of the brunt of society nowadays. But when I called for "mercy" for the persecuted, all that followed on this thread was some second rate virgin jokes and and a lack of condemnation for such from those who claim to be so merciful.
Certain people on here argued its okay to punish people for crimes as in "you do the crime, you do the time" but conveniently overlook that only in recent times have laws on adultery and sodomy come off of the books and much more religious socieities of the past had much more harsh sanctions. I hate to inform you this, but I'M not the one who placed adultery as a ten commandment sin. God did. So I would suggest any Christian who presently likes to declare sexual sins as "easily forgiven" but who would be outraged at instant forgiveness for modern secular violations not even in the bible such as "racism" or "homophobia" should perhaps consider themselves not really Christians at all. And, oh yeah, there are lots of those on this very chat site.
Some of them are even moronically judging me right now for allegedly being judgmental... which means they are both promoting sins AND being the judgers they claim they are so worried about. The path to hell is paved with.... those who think they can over ride God's law with their own pretentions.
Anyhow, forget all of our opinions, how'd your specific issue turn out for you that you brought up before we hijacked your thread???? Am I to believe that you decided purity wasn't something you wanted anymore in your personal relations?
If you think you should allow someone to cheat on you constantly and all you are going to do is fall all over yourself with apologies that you're not quick enough to forgive her, you really should stay single because you lack as both a man and a christian. Maybe you could even join a nice hippie colony.
Since I live in a society where pre-marital sex and even cheating have no penalty anymore including social stigma, I don't see reason to have all of this "mercy" for the sinner when its the persecuted, not the sinner who is taking all of the brunt of society nowadays. But when I called for "mercy" for the persecuted, all that followed on this thread was some second rate virgin jokes and and a lack of condemnation for such from those who claim to be so merciful.
Certain people on here argued its okay to punish people for crimes as in "you do the crime, you do the time" but conveniently overlook that only in recent times have laws on adultery and sodomy come off of the books and much more religious socieities of the past had much more harsh sanctions. I hate to inform you this, but I'M not the one who placed adultery as a ten commandment sin. God did. So I would suggest any Christian who presently likes to declare sexual sins as "easily forgiven" but who would be outraged at instant forgiveness for modern secular violations not even in the bible such as "racism" or "homophobia" should perhaps consider themselves not really Christians at all. And, oh yeah, there are lots of those on this very chat site.
Some of them are even moronically judging me right now for allegedly being judgmental... which means they are both promoting sins AND being the judgers they claim they are so worried about. The path to hell is paved with.... those who think they can over ride God's law with their own pretentions.
Anyhow, forget all of our opinions, how'd your specific issue turn out for you that you brought up before we hijacked your thread???? Am I to believe that you decided purity wasn't something you wanted anymore in your personal relations?
R
...Well, personally, I think it may depend on the people, and the situation, with whether or not someone should get into a relationship such as this. If it's something you CANNOT get over, then I'm sure it'd be a bad idea. But if she's worth it, and fits into God's plan for your life, and you can be able to look past it, then I'd probably say go for it.
That being said, I think it can be dangerous for a couple to have such different pasts, that they have difficulty understanding/relating to each other. But I suppose it would be possible that they could connect so well and still be able to understand each other, that it wouldn't matter so much, and could even widen each others understanding God brings unity... between people from different nations, different cultures, different whatever. When God is the greatest thing in our lives, we have the greatest thing in common.
But of course, lean not on your own understanding. Keep praying for God's guidence
That being said, I think it can be dangerous for a couple to have such different pasts, that they have difficulty understanding/relating to each other. But I suppose it would be possible that they could connect so well and still be able to understand each other, that it wouldn't matter so much, and could even widen each others understanding
God brings unity... between people from different nations, different cultures, different whatever. When God is the greatest thing in our lives, we have the greatest thing in common.But of course, lean not on your own understanding. Keep praying for God's guidence
W
Im glad there are guys out there that will only date virgins. It means less competition for me
...and in my opinion, those guys are probably not the most wonderful dates either, ladies.
...and in my opinion, those guys are probably not the most wonderful dates either, ladies.
Zero, it's guys like you that make girls like me (who aren't virgins) kinda happy that you accept us the way we are. *giant hug*
J
Hey, I'm really sorry to 'bump' this up or anything. But I just read through this and I just wanted to say sorry. I didn't realise I would cause an argument over this, so I'm really sorry for that. Someone said on one of the earlier pages that topics like this cause young women who have a past involving sexual sin to feel unworthy or never be able to find a christian man, and may cause them to go back to that past life. I'm soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo incredibly sorry if I did that I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
I didn't mean to. I would never ever not date someone or marry someone for that matter because of their past, I was just asking for advice for overcoming the feeling. Marriage between male and female should be a reflection of the marriage between Christ and the church. Husbands should love their wife unconditionally and forgive endlessly, as Christ does with us, and wifes should love their husbands in the same way we are to love Christ. I know the feelings I have been having are merely Satan attacking me, and God can overcome. I just posted it looking for some advice; I didn't realise how much controversy it would cause, sorry. And again I'm really incredibly sorry if I have upset anyone over anything I have said...sorry
skater, You didn't cause anything.
No need to apologize. Date whomever the Lord leads you to date. If you only want to date virgins, then date only virgins. I can't speak for anyone else in this thread, but my only point was that if you don't think you could marry a girl who is not a virgin, please do not date her because she will only be hurt in the end and think that no christian guy will marry her. This happened to my mother in high school and it caused her to turn away from God and make some very poor decisions regarding her life and, eventually, mine. THIS was my only point and it was merely food for thought. God bless you! People will disagree from time to time and that's not always a bad thing. If we all agreed on every single thing, we might never learn anything new. There's no need to take a disagreement personally.
Learning how to disagree in a respectful manner is a sign of maturity. God bless!
S
People will disagree from time to time and that's not always a bad thing. If we all agreed on every single thing, we might never learn anything new. There's no need to take a disagreement personally. Learning how to disagree in a respectful manner is a sign of maturity. God bless!
Learning how to disagree in a respectful manner is a sign of maturity. God bless!
Well Julianna, I don't disagree at all with your last post. Surprised?
So I see some people want to paint me as a villain for not being respectful enough is how it is being worded. Seems before I even started on the thread though that the original advise seeker was being accused of all sorts of less than respectful items. It also seems these attacks weren't actually Christian perspective but rather came from good old fashioned SELF INTEREST. That's why I have such troubles with some of these conversations. If someone thinks certain sins and actions should be forgiven and ignored because they themselves have commited them so be it... but lets stop with the pretense that arguments are Christian based... especially when some refuse to apply that same principle to other sins where an apparent self interested exists in NOT seeing the rules violated.
For you skater 20, as my last post was less charitable towards you than perhaps it should have been, I have a question for you which I don't expect a written reply on, just something for you to ponder. Way back I told you when I was 17 I went through something similar to what you described. Along came a girl, and gee, she must have been God sent because where else could she have come from? Well I have had years to ponder philosophy regarding this girl and have had the counter question: how do I know that she wasn't actually sent by the devil or as a test to see if I took my purity seriously? One side of me said I was supposed to show Christian forgiveness and accept her and another logically argued side of me said the exact opposite. She was nothing more than a creation of the flesh and this was not what God wanted of me at all. To me this is the problem when you say as you did in your last post that Satan is taking this side or that side. That some girl came along and made you re-consider all of your values, how do you know it was God and not the devil that did this?
MY answer: In the years since I have abandoned the concept that "God put someone in my life" for dating or marriage purposes. (Or the devil) It ceased to make sense when I became more outgoing and proactive instead of living a life where when some random female fell into my life it was such an oddity it needed explanation. So while that girl when I was 17 had a profound impact on my life, its been years since I have believed her to be special in any way more than if I get up right now and go meet some girl wherever she may be.
So I see some people want to paint me as a villain for not being respectful enough is how it is being worded. Seems before I even started on the thread though that the original advise seeker was being accused of all sorts of less than respectful items. It also seems these attacks weren't actually Christian perspective but rather came from good old fashioned SELF INTEREST. That's why I have such troubles with some of these conversations. If someone thinks certain sins and actions should be forgiven and ignored because they themselves have commited them so be it... but lets stop with the pretense that arguments are Christian based... especially when some refuse to apply that same principle to other sins where an apparent self interested exists in NOT seeing the rules violated.
For you skater 20, as my last post was less charitable towards you than perhaps it should have been, I have a question for you which I don't expect a written reply on, just something for you to ponder. Way back I told you when I was 17 I went through something similar to what you described. Along came a girl, and gee, she must have been God sent because where else could she have come from? Well I have had years to ponder philosophy regarding this girl and have had the counter question: how do I know that she wasn't actually sent by the devil or as a test to see if I took my purity seriously? One side of me said I was supposed to show Christian forgiveness and accept her and another logically argued side of me said the exact opposite. She was nothing more than a creation of the flesh and this was not what God wanted of me at all. To me this is the problem when you say as you did in your last post that Satan is taking this side or that side. That some girl came along and made you re-consider all of your values, how do you know it was God and not the devil that did this?
MY answer: In the years since I have abandoned the concept that "God put someone in my life" for dating or marriage purposes. (Or the devil) It ceased to make sense when I became more outgoing and proactive instead of living a life where when some random female fell into my life it was such an oddity it needed explanation. So while that girl when I was 17 had a profound impact on my life, its been years since I have believed her to be special in any way more than if I get up right now and go meet some girl wherever she may be.