Does God love all mankind and does He wish to save everyone

[GraceAndTruth]

In Matt 7:23 he says "I never knew you" and that would, to me, mean that they were not believers. Those in John 6:39 were all believers and none of them will ever perish (go to hell) because he will raise all of them up at the last day. So, these in 2 Pet 3:9 who had like precious faith could lose their fellowship with God (perish) but not lose their life in hell.

in HIS name, etc they obviously had some kind belief.

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’\

They might have know ABOUT Him and even "accepted Him, but they had not been elected to salvation. It is not important that people say they know Jesus (or think they do) what is important is that Jesus knows them. Knew His elect before the foundation of the world. The bible never says we accept Christ but it does say that Christ accepts us. (in context speaking TO His elect)

 

[GraceAndTruth]

The effectiveness of Christ's blood on the cross for the elect flows backwards to the first elect man as well as forward to the last elect man. All mankind were captives at one time.

agreed

 

[ForestGreenCook]

in HIS name, etc they obviously had some kind belief.

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’\

They might have know ABOUT Him and even "accepted Him, but they had not been elected to salvation. It is not important that people say they know Jesus (or think they do) what is important is that Jesus knows them. Knew His elect before the foundation of the world. The bible never says we accept Christ but it does say that Christ accepts us. (in context speaking TO His elect)

But if they had not been regenerated to discern spiritual things, how could they have accepted him. I think that the scriptures do affirm that after we have been regenerated, we do accept Jesus as our redeemer. Even though it is true that he first loved us before we loved him. I think that we may be on the same tract and are trying to split hairs. I believe that some that are not the elect will claim to believe certain things but for their own personal gain.

 

[John146]

The effectiveness of Christ's blood on the cross for the elect flows backwards to the first elect man as well as forward to the last elect man. All mankind were captives at one time.

So, you have no explanation of Abraham's bosom and Ephesians 4?

How can Satan have any understanding of God's word?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So, you have no explanation of Abraham's bosom and Ephesians 4?

How can Satan have any understanding of God's word?

I have no explanation for Abraham's bosom without further research. Do you have an explanation? What specifically are you inquiring about Ephesians 4? Satan was an angel.

 

[John146]

I have no explanation for Abraham's bosom without further research. Do you have an explanation? What specifically are you inquiring about Ephesians 4? Satan was an angel.

The OT saints upon death went to Abraham's bosom which was located in the heart of the earth. It was a safe place to abide until Christ could set them free after the resurrection. They didn't deserve hell, but could not enter into heaven.

Yes, Satan was an angel, yet even after his fall he could discern spiritual things God had said unto him. How? Does Satan have the Holy Spirit?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The OT saints upon death went to Abraham's bosom which was located in the heart of the earth. It was a safe place to abide until Christ could set them free after the resurrection. They didn't deserve hell, but could not enter into heaven.

Yes, Satan was an angel, yet even after his fall he could discern spiritual things God had said unto him. How? Does Satan have the Holy Spirit?

No, neither do the angels that are in heaven.

 

[allsaved]

1 Timothy 2:3-4


3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

 

[SophieT]

1 Timothy 2:3-4


3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

looks like you resurrected a tired old thread here

are you promoting Universalism?

hint: v. 3 is saying something is good and pleases God, but what would that be?

context?

 

[allsaved]

Yes, I bemieve that God's purpose and plan is to save all people. . My book,"Without Doubt is scheduled to be released by Christian Faith Publishing near the end of next month.

 

[allsaved]

Yes, I bemieve that God's purpose and plan is to save all people. . My book,"Without Doubt is scheduled to be released by Christian Faith Publishing near the end of next month.

Yes, I bemieve that God's purpose and plan is to save all people. . My book,"Without Doubt is scheduled to be released by Christian Faith Publishing near the end of next month.

I should have said throuh Jesus Christ.

 

[Dino246]

Yes, I bemieve that God's purpose and plan is to save all people. . My book,"Without Doubt is scheduled to be released by Christian Faith Publishing near the end of next month.

I should have said throuh Jesus Christ.

I'm sure these are simply keying errors, which we all make, but I hope your book is edited better.

 

[allsaved]

I'm sure these are simply keying errors, which we all make, but I hope your book is edited better.

I'm sure these are simply keying errors, which we all make, but I hope your book is edited better.

I'm sure these are simply keying errors, which we all make, but I hope your book is edited better.

I can only be grateful He loves to show mercy, He loves to forgive. He loves the sarcastic too, Be grateful!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So did you just wake up one day and decide that you were elect? Did you actually have a conversion experience or simply arrive at an intellectual conclusion that you are elect and thereby saved?

Did you ever acknowledge your sin before the Lord and ask Him to for give you for your sin?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

most likely he’s heard the false teaching that taught that we’re just the elect and what the word says isn’t important because of the “revolutionary teachings “ that teach us contrary beliefs tHan what accepting scripture and how it’s well explained in scripture does

often if we see a verse then all the sudden the rest of the Bible has it wrong and the verse plucked from context has it right

in other words if this is true

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this warning in the same letter to the same people can’t possibly be true

“But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭KJV‬

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The spiritual things referred to in 1 Cor 2:14 relate to that which Paul spoke among them that are perfect (perfect as in they were "spiritually mature" ... not perfect as in they "do not sin").


1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory


Please note that in 1 Cor 2:1-2, Paul indicates he came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom and that he could go no further with them than Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Not because he didn't want to speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory.

But because the church at Corinth was not spiritually mature. They were still in spiritual infancy because they had left off following Christ and had broken off into factions wherein some followed Paul or Apollos, or Cephas:


1 Corinthians 1:

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?


And this fact is further corroborated in 1 Cor 3:

1 Corinthians 3:

1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?


You need to quit throwing up 1 Cor 2:14 as your standard for supporting a doctrine which is not contained in Scripture.

It is clear from Rom 1:18-20 that some reject that which has been revealed to them, not because God does not want them to believe but because they, of their own volition, reject ... even though the eternal power of God is revealed to them. That is why they are without excuse.

They reject, not because they are not part of some so-called "elect" club you continue to insist upon. They reject because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness. That is why they are without excuse.

You are grouping the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 as having the same ability as babes in Christ indicating that the natural man can receive spiritual things, just not the mature spiritual things, when, in fact, they cannot because they have not been born spiritually as the new born babes have been that are in Christ and Christ in them, and do receive
some spiritual things.



The letter of 1 Corinthians was written to the church of God, which is at Corinth and the "us" in 1 Cor 2:10 is not referencing the natural man that has not been born of the Spirit.

The only thing that the natural man can know is the spirit of man which is in him. (verse 11).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So now you're saying that Paul wasn't even talking about unbelievers in 1 Cor 2:14? If that's the case, then what gives you the right to claim the verse relates to unbelievers?

When Paul wrote

the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead (Rom 1:20)

he did not then state that they could not receive or know them because they are spiritually discerned.

Paul had the ability to make that claim as he did in 1 Cor 2, but Paul didn't say that. What Paul did say is so that they are without excuse.

They are without excuse because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... just as Rom 1:18 says.

But you prefer to go to 1 Cor 2 to explain away the issue because you cannot just read what is written right there in front of your eyes. Take the blinders off your eyes, let God's Word read just as God intended.

The 1st chapter in Romans is not written to those who have not been born again of the Spirit, such as the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14. To "hold the truth" in unrighteousness indicates that they have had the truth because in verse 19 it says that God has shown it to them.

I might remind you that your last comment applies to you more than it does to me.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God does not wish . He works by faith as a plan and carries it out as a work of faith.

If he desired to save everybody as every person ever born. He who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases, He would. As many as the father has given to the Son they will come and that many he will not cast out

I agree that God does according to his will.

 

[7thMoon]

I agree that God does according to his will.

And poor Job? At least, HE didn't double-down on giving him boils.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Paul stops speaking of the believer at the end of vs 17 the just shall live by faith.

He then goes on to speak of those against whom the wrath of God is revealed:

vs 18 – those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness

vs 19 – because God has "shewed" that which may be known of God.

The word "shewed" in vs 19 is the Greek word phaneroō which means to make visible what has been hidden or unknown, whether by words, or deeds, or in any other way.

Thayer's (1889 edition) specifically defines phaneroō as

"of God teaching the gentiles concerning Himself by the works of nature"​

sadly the later versions of Thayer's define phaneroō as "apparent, manifest evident, known, in their minds" – so a manipulation to support a doctrine never intended by Thayer or God – does that even bother you in the least??? (Apparently not because you turn a blind eye to the alteration. No wonder you have no problem with what the calvinist doctrine has done to Scripture.)

vs 20 – the invisible things of God are clearly seen and are understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so they (the ones who suppress the truth in unrighteousness) are without excuse.

These verses do not speak of some hidden, spiritually obscure reality that only those who are "spiritual" can understand.

These verses speak of things which are not visible being understood by that which is visible. If you still don't understand, look at Psalm 19.





It is a description of the natural man who, though God has revealed His eternal power and Godhead, the natural man suppresses the truth in unrighteousness.

The believer is the one revealed in vs 16: For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth

The one who does not suppress the truth in unrighteousness, is the one who believes the gospel of Christ.

Romans 1:17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed

You are basing your theology on the fact that the natural man can believe in spiritual things. He cannot, and you know what scripture that I am referring to.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

You are grouping the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14 as having the same ability as babes in Christ

nope ... I'm saying that there are a lot of believers who have not matured beyond spiritual infancy. These believers could be newly born again, in which case they are in spiritual infancy ... or they could be believers who have been born again for years but never progressed past spiritual infancy because they neglect the Word of God ... the milk of the Word by which they are to grow up and mature.

Either way (whether newly born again or old believer who neglected God's Word), there is no comprehension of the the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, referred to in 1 Cor 2:6-13, even though the capacity (i.e. Holy Spirit) is present. For the newly born again one, it is understandable why they are unable to comprehend. For those who have been born again for awhile, yet have not matured ... it's just sad.

To "hold the truth" in unrighteousness indicates that they have had the truth because in verse 19 it says that God has shown it to them.

Romans 1:19 states that the truth was revealed to them and they rejected it.

Romans 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

You are basing your theology on the fact that the natural man can believe in spiritual things. He cannot, and you know what scripture that I am referring to.

The natural man sure can believe in (as well as practice) spiritual things.

devil worship ... astrology ... witchcraft ... the occult ... these are all spiritual things and natural man not only believes, but actively engages in various "spiritual" activities.
.