Enoch and other “lost books” of the Bible

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kinda said:
You literally quoted the website and some of the text that I posted. I did skim through it and didn't really see where it says, the earth is flat. I read what you quoted and didn't see it either, but maybe I'm missing it.
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I did not quote the whole website, just the parts I deem important and some of the verses that say the earth is flat. It doesn’t flat out say “oh look here I saw a flat earth with ice walls surrounding it”. But it describes the earth as a flat plane like surface. I just think we should take this book with a grain of salt, ya know?
 
ZNP said:
Just because the book is not part of our covenant does not mean it isn't divinely inspired or helpful to the edification of Christians.
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Had Enoch been divinely inspired, it would have no doubt been a part of the Hebrew Tanakh. But God guided the Jews to exclude all the apocryphal (or pseudepigraphical) books so that there were only 24 books in the Tanakh. And we know from the words of Christ (Luke 24) that this was the only authoritative canon for all Jews. He described the Hebrew Bible as (1) the Law of Moses (5 books), (2) the Prophets (8 books), and the Psalms (Writings) (11 books) for a total of 24 books. He called these books "the Scriptures" or "the Prophets", and the apostles called them "the Holy Scriptures".
 
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Cyberm said:
What do you guys think of Enoch, and the book of Enoch? What are your thoughts on this. Is the book of Enoch important, did it actually happen and is it true? Why isn’t it in the Bible? And what about other books in the Bible like the Book of Thomas? Why aren’t they in the Bible? I would love to hear your thoughts on all this. Feel free to add anything you want : )
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Have you Googled those same questions? If so you already have seen some really good explanations about the origins of those books.

It was written sometime between 200 BC and 165 BC or close to that range depending on your source data.

It is a collection of about 5 books.

It was written by more than one author, none of which was Enoch since Enoch had been translated thousands of years before.

The events are not true, they contradict the bible and teach a theology about God that contradicts the bible.

They were written by a sect of Jewish / Greek religion group similar to the Essenes. They were sort of like a Jewish and Greek Gnostic mix in theology.
 
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This is what I believe:
Around the time of Christ, 1 Enoch was a popular book. It was "lost" for a time and was re-introduced, I believe by the Lord, for the last days, end times, or whatever you want to call the time we are in. It is part of the Ethiopic bible.
1 Enoch exposes the enemy by elaborating on some things found in the canon of scripture. I don't believe it's for many believers, and I deal with it apart from all other books outside of the canon. I read it because I believe the Lord led me to it.
It has helped me understand the UFO topic as being demonic and not visitors from another world. It's easily accessible online...read it if you want, don't read it if you don't want. It has been used by occultic groups and misinterpreted.
 
They are not worth reading. They are not true. They present a theology that is not pleasing to God at all. Might as well read the Quran. Just as twisted.
 
I'm not going to argue over this, I just suggest that people make up their own minds about it.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
Had Enoch been divinely inspired, it would have no doubt been a part of the Hebrew Tanakh. But God guided the Jews to exclude all the apocryphal (or pseudepigraphical) books so that there were only 24 books in the Tanakh. And we know from the words of Christ (Luke 24) that this was the only authoritative canon for all Jews. He described the Hebrew Bible as (1) the Law of Moses (5 books), (2) the Prophets (8 books), and the Psalms (Writings) (11 books) for a total of 24 books. He called these books "the Scriptures" or "the Prophets", and the apostles called them "the Holy Scriptures".
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The Old Testament is a testament. It is a legal document that lays out our inheritance. You can compare the Old Testament to a mortgage contract. Yes, any question I might have about the new house I am getting should be in that contract and if it is not in that contract it can be considered not relevant to that new house I am getting. But that does not make it the sum total of my speaking.
 
Oblio said:
I'm not going to argue over this, I just suggest that people make up their own minds about it.
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I'm not sure about all the ancient scrolls that supplement the Bible, but the Didache, and the book of Enoch seem to be worth a read. I don't really like arguing about stuff that I don't know to much about either.

Just read the Didache and it seems like a very practical way to live a Christian life. I would highly recommend it.
 
ZNP said:
The Old Testament is a testament. It is a legal document that lays out our inheritance.
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I believe you are misunderstanding the significance of the Tanakh (the OT). It is far more than a legal document. It is the Word of God. And therefore the apostles called it "the Holy Scriptures" and Christ taught His apostles that whatever was written therein pertained to Him: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

So Christ went from Genesis to Malachi, and expounded all the Scriptures which spoke of Him and His first and second comings.
 
Oblio said:
I've never read it. Maybe I will. Didache. Thanks.
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Didache is pronounced Did-a-kay. lol I was pronouncing it Did-ach-y, but it looks like it could also be pronounched Did-ache. lol lol




 
kinda said:
Didache is pronounced Did-a-kay. lol I was pronouncing it Did-ach-y, but it looks like it could also be pronounched Did-ache. lol lol




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I watched a bit of each. Interesting. Fruitful interaction on a forum. I can get behind that! Thanks again! Shalom.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
I believe you are misunderstanding the significance of the Tanakh (the OT). It is far more than a legal document. It is the Word of God. And therefore the apostles called it "the Holy Scriptures" and Christ taught His apostles that whatever was written therein pertained to Him: And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

So Christ went from Genesis to Malachi, and expounded all the Scriptures which spoke of Him and His first and second comings.
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Yes it is the word of God, but God can speak to people throughout the ages, when He speaks it is the word of God, the only difference is it is not part of our covenant with God
 
There are no lost books of the Bible. Books such as the mentioned popular forgery of Enoch were not included in the Bible for a very good reason that they do not contain the Holy Spirit and are often found to be forgeries made by the enemies of Christ. The Bible canon is complete and trustworthy and is sufficient for all study and understanding about God and reality.
 
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Which Enoch? -- is the real question here. One of the earliest translators used a single Ethiopic manuscript (MS). If you understand the critical text methodology as related to the Scriptures, you'll understand what I mean when I say that modern scholars later applied textual criticism and produced several newer translations of "Enoch."

Problem is that we really don't know that ANY version of the Book of Enoch is actually legitimate. (Original MSS I mean.)

Same as with Jasher. There are something like three Books of Jasher... and I'm not sure any of them is the real one that the Bible references.
 
I wonder why Jude would include fraudulent material (1 Enoch 1:9, R.H. Charles translation) in his New Testament book (Jude 14,15 NIV).
"9. And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him" - 1 Enoch 1:9

"14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”[a] - Jude 14, 15

I don't believe that Jude did.
 
Oblio said:
I wonder why Jude would include fraudulent material (1 Enoch 1:9, R.H. Charles translation) in his New Testament book (Jude 14,15 NIV).
"9. And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of ⌈His⌉ holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy ⌈all⌉ the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works ⌈of their ungodliness⌉ which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners ⌈have spoken⌉ against Him" - 1 Enoch 1:9

"14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones 15 to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”[a] - Jude 14, 15

I don't believe that Jude did.
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I'm not saying that he did. But you have to understand that there were many fraudulent epistles and "scriptures" within the first 200 years of the early church. Medieval forgeries were also common because people would pay a lot for religious MSS and saintly relics.

So if you were going to counterfeit for example a book the Bible references, you would make sure to include in your counterfeit anything the Bible quoted from the original.

Like I said, Jasher is similarly problematic; there are I believe at least three versions floating around. The one I have is supposedly the "most reliable" or "real" one of the three... but there are things in it that are clearly superstitious and impossible. So I'm leaning to the conclusion that the Book of Jasher has been lost.

Keep in mind that even if the Bible references another work, it does not mean that THAT work is therefore Scripture, just that the referenced passage in the work is reliable and true.
 
Many say that the book of Enoch was written 1 to 2 hundred years before Christ. That would put it before Jude. Others have it dictated by Enoch to his great-grandson, Noah, who brought it with him on the ark.
Since 1 Enoch elaborates on Satanic themes put forth in the bible, I would expect the enemy to do all he could to discredit Enoch's writings. I put Enoch in a category by itself. Books such as the gospel of Thomas are frauds. In my opinion.
BTW...I never said that you did.
 
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Oblio said:
Many say that the book of Enoch was written 1 to 2 hundred years before Christ. That would put it before Jude. Others have it dictated by Enoch to his great-grandson, Noah, who brought it with him on the ark.
Since 1 Enoch elaborates on Satanic themes put forth in the bible, I would expect the enemy to do all he could to discredit Enoch's writings. I put Enoch in a category by itself. Books such as the gospel of Thomas are frauds. In my opinion.
BTW...I never said that you did.
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I'm on the fence with Enoch right now. Since there are several versions, my current investigations relate to which is reliable if any.
I actually was going to buy a version just today but something stopped me. Need to do more research first.
 
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