I think its probaly time a discussion was raised on this matter. because one side seems to think mankind is reponsisble for the power of death
Exactly what is the power of Death and how did satan come to control it
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Exactly what is the power of Death and how did satan come to control it
I did not think this thread would go live because of the trouble it could cause but now that it has. I think its probably time a discussion was raised on this matter. because one side seems to think mankind is responsible for the power of death.
Ok so firstly there are many scriptures showing the word death. but is there only one direction the meaning of death goes,
Please lets try to keep an open mind and then try to study the question also baring in mind that this subject can revoke an attack from a demon who does not want the truth to be told.
This can lead to a persons thoughts being taken captive. please let us try to keep are patience because the enemy would love us all to hold grudges against each other and call each other false teachers or none christians or anything, our advasary has the ability to devide and conquer and cause people to hold grudges.
I did not think this thread would go live because of the trouble it could cause but now that it has. I think its probably time a discussion was raised on this matter. because one side seems to think mankind is responsible for the power of death.
Ok so firstly there are many scriptures showing the word death. but is there only one direction the meaning of death goes,
Please lets try to keep an open mind and then try to study the question also baring in mind that this subject can revoke an attack from a demon who does not want the truth to be told.
This can lead to a persons thoughts being taken captive. please let us try to keep are patience because the enemy would love us all to hold grudges against each other and call each other false teachers or none christians or anything, our advasary has the ability to devide and conquer and cause people to hold grudges.
My view
Mankind disobeyed God's Command to allow Sin to enter into this world ------Sin is responsible for the power of death -----
Nothing about mankind causing death here -----
Romans 6:23 NIV
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[a] Christ Jesus our Lord.
We humans don't have to sin ----no one forces us to sin ---we choose to sin ------before sin came into the world -----there was no death involved ----only life was in place -----
Really makes one wonder. I mean, Adam and Eve were put in the garden of Eden and had everything they could possibly want, but there was a dangerous tree nearby and a crafty snake. Seems like it didn’t take long before they ruined their life forever. Theey were gullible and naive, much like children, who will believe almost anything.
These children got deceived and received a harsh, unrelenting, and the severest possible punishment for their singular infraction: spiritual death. No warnings, no correction, no training, no discipline, no grace, no chance for remorse, no repentance, no discussion.
In all of known creation, perhaps earth is the only planet of sin and death, and the god of this world, Satan, is also a sinner. Sounds like Satan introduced sin and death and is there now in charge of the world of sin and death.
This means if you’re a Christian you’re literally encamped behind enemy lines. Planet earth is ground zero for the ultimate spiritual war.
I know God takes this very seriously, we need to live like Christ did. Living like Christ, obeying His commands, that’s how you fight a spiritual war.
God could have struck down with physical death both Adam and Eve in the Garden ------instead He showed His Love --Grace and Mercy by not killing them Physically they died Spiritually only -----and again God showed His Love Grace and Mercy toward them as he did them a favour by banishing them from the Garden ----
T
he Tree of Life was in the Garden and were free to eat from it -----if they had of eaten from that tree before the Serpent entered ---they would have remained Physically and Spiritually connected to God forever and would have had a great fellowship with him ---there would have been no free choice in this world --we would all be under God's rule and righteousness --- no sin would have entered -----
The Tree of life----- you see----- keeps you in the spiritual state your in---- forever ------and since they ate of the tree of good and evil the one tree they were told not to eat from and disobeyed God --God then had to protect them from ever eating from the Tree of life which would have kept them in their disconnected spiritual state from God forever and humans would have no recourse to be redeemed --
https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/bible-study/what-is-the-tree-of-life.html
In Eden, the tree of life appears to have been a source of ongoing physical life. The presence of the tree of life suggests a supernatural provision of life as Adam and Eve ate the fruit their Creator provided. Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life.
Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree, and subject to physical death, just as they had experienced spiritual death. Since Eden, death has reigned throughout history.
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https://www.learnreligions.com/tree-of-life-in-the-bible-4766527
But the LORD God warned him [Adam], “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden—except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.” (Genesis 2:16–17, NLT)
When Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they were expelled from the garden. Scripture explains the reason for their expulsion: God did not want them to run the risk of eating from the tree of life and living forever in a state of disobedience
I say --so by Banishing them from the Garden God was able to bring His Son to give humans a chance to re connect Spiritually with Him and be saved ------
T
he Tree of Life was in the Garden and were free to eat from it -----if they had of eaten from that tree before the Serpent entered ---they would have remained Physically and Spiritually connected to God forever and would have had a great fellowship with him ---there would have been no free choice in this world --we would all be under God's rule and righteousness --- no sin would have entered -----
The Tree of life----- you see----- keeps you in the spiritual state your in---- forever ------and since they ate of the tree of good and evil the one tree they were told not to eat from and disobeyed God --God then had to protect them from ever eating from the Tree of life which would have kept them in their disconnected spiritual state from God forever and humans would have no recourse to be redeemed --
https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/bible-study/what-is-the-tree-of-life.html
In Eden, the tree of life appears to have been a source of ongoing physical life. The presence of the tree of life suggests a supernatural provision of life as Adam and Eve ate the fruit their Creator provided. Adam and Eve were designed to live forever, but to do so they likely needed to eat from the tree of life.
Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree, and subject to physical death, just as they had experienced spiritual death. Since Eden, death has reigned throughout history.
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https://www.learnreligions.com/tree-of-life-in-the-bible-4766527
But the LORD God warned him [Adam], “You may freely eat the fruit of every tree in the garden—except the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you eat its fruit, you are sure to die.” (Genesis 2:16–17, NLT)
When Adam and Eve disobeyed God by eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, they were expelled from the garden. Scripture explains the reason for their expulsion: God did not want them to run the risk of eating from the tree of life and living forever in a state of disobedience
I say --so by Banishing them from the Garden God was able to bring His Son to give humans a chance to re connect Spiritually with Him and be saved ------
indeed for believers
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
Hi student thankyou for taking part, my next question may be some what difficult to answer to which i know. but do you have any idea why satan held the power of death. and why that would be referenced in the scripture where it says he would be thrown into the fire.
Imo i feel if he had of been given the power of death by God, he would not be commiting a sin for using it. is it possible satan somehow manipulated the power of death and corrupted it, to then control it ?
Because in the scripture where he says he will be thrown into the fire it also notes he held the power of death and that power would be thrown in with it
This might answer your question for the first part -------this is your statement here from above -----
you said ---------but do you have any idea why satan held the power of death
I say
Satan was the means of introducing Death by Tempting Adam and Eve to Sin -but He didn't cause Spiritual Death he posed a Question to Eve and Eve herself took the bait -----so Satan by his Tempting humans to sin held the power of death to those who acted on Satan's promptings -------We don't sin because we have to ---we sin because we choose to ------
Scripture says the wages of SIN IS Spiritual Death----Satan is the tempter to get us to sin --so Satan holds the power to temp us into sinning --so he held the keys to death until Jesus came and died and was resurrected and then Jesus got the keys back from Death to Life --If we accept Him -----if we don't accept Jesus we are sinners not Saints and ---the wages of sin is spiritual death -----
-------So for unbelievers there are 2 Deaths -------
That is how I see that ------
I say ----
as far as your question on Satan being thrown into the lake of fire goes -------
this says why -------don' know if that helps you --------
Topical Bible Verses
Topicalbible.org
Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
The power of death is that all humans beings are subject to the first death. And those who have not been redeemed by the grace of God also face the Second Death (eternal Hell). Also Satan DOES NOT control the power of death. It is God who controls it, and God gives to every person his or her allotted time on earth.
H
Ok thankyou for taking part once again. remember when i said can death take up more than one direction and can it have more than one meaning in the op. are you 100 percent certain that Satan did not decide to miss use the power of death, by tempting adam and eve into sin on his own accord. and could you be 100 percent certain that satan did not find a away ho to manipulate death and the seed of life in some way. Baring in mind where still awaiting the incorruptible body. if you can not understand why i am mentioning completely why satan may be able to manipulate death and life and control it then say why, also if you ca not understand completely why i may mention the incorruptible seed then do ask.
Well if you want to believe that Satan can do things on His own then that is your belief ---but here is the thing --your just making up want you want in your own mind ------
This is God's word ---and it says it is truth -----so do you want to argue with what God says in His word ?If you do then you will have to argue with God and ask him if Satan could abuse his power -----not me --
I believe God's Word ----which Says Satan has permission by God to Tempt humans ----
Job 1:6-22 ESV --------I say so what does this word allow mean ------to give permission to or for; permit: to allow a student to be absent;
Satan Allowed to Test Job
6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan[a] also came among them.
7 The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.”
8 And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”
9 Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason?
10 Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land.
11 But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.”
12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
I say --------So we see verse 8---the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Jo
Verse 10 -----we see Satan saying God is protecting him on all sides so Satan has no access to Job --
to more
Verse 12 ----we see God granting Satan access ---but limited his access -----by telling him he is allow to have access to all he has but he is not to stretch out his hand --he is limited to what God as given him permission to access ----
So for me I believe Scripture God would have restricted the serpent in the Garden when he deceived Eve ---Eve then went to Adam ----so the serpent had no dealings with Adam -----
So believe as you like ---you will eventually meet God in Spirit so you can question him them on all your question ----- I will keep believing the Word as for me it is TRUTH -----
Pro.18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that live it shall eat the fruit thereof.
James 3:8
But the tongue can NO MAN tame; it is an unruly EVIL , full of DEADLY POISION.1Pet33:10
I understand you are saying that when Jesus took the keys from satan it was death,hell and the grave.
Satan never held the keys to life.John521-26,1Cor15:54-57. They were never in his possession.
We are created in God's imagine,and it is he that breathed into us life. He alone can withdraw that breath at any time,but satan has to get His permission to come against us. Satan hasn't any authority except God gives it to him.
Jesus death on the cross was his ultimate VICTORY. Col.2:15........and having disarmed the powers and authorities,he made a public spectacle of them triumphing over them by the cross.
Please show any scripture that says satan had this control. Thank you. Maybe I have misunderstood.
he only had the power of death because man gave it to him breaking the original command.
“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”
Hebrews 2:14 KJV
never had the power of life that is from the other side and has always been Gods alone
@Pilgrimshope @Gardenias @Nehemiah6 @Runningman hi to all of you and thankyou for taking part in this study so far Befor i reqoute anyone taking part in this thread could you all answer the poll question with an explanation to your answer in this thread https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/is-it-a-sin-to-tempt-sombody-else-into-sin.204043/
Oh and less we not forget my Good friend @Dino246 a meat cleaver for the word, could you also answer the question and give a brief explanation to your answer in this thread please https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/is-it-a-sin-to-tempt-sombody-else-into-sin.204043/ thankyou kindly
Sorry but no, I don't do polls and i just let the word explain my position.
We are in a forum,not church or Sunday school.
So please @Dino246 @Gardenias @Pilgrimshope @Runningman @studentoftheword please also let me give some more insight into this study, and maybe a question none of you have been asked befor.
Here is something to think about in the mean time befor i reveal many scriptures showing where lucifer a guardian chrerub once entrusted with Guarding the seed of wisdom, that lives in all mankind all nature and the tree of knowledge. but befor i show many verses showing how lucifers can manipulate matter and corrupt matter, may i give you something to think about,
Would anyone say that when you commit a sin you also disobey God, now befor any of you answer, bare in mind that God has left a set of rules and commandments in place for every sin.
So with that thought in mind how is it when a christian sins to day and disobeys God, the spirit is not currupted in the christian or dies like it did for adam.
would you all agree that to sin is also to disobey God.
Here is something to think about in the mean time befor i reveal many scriptures showing where lucifer a guardian chrerub once entrusted with Guarding the seed of wisdom, that lives in all mankind all nature and the tree of knowledge. but befor i show many verses showing how lucifers can manipulate matter and corrupt matter, may i give you something to think about,
Would anyone say that when you commit a sin you also disobey God, now befor any of you answer, bare in mind that God has left a set of rules and commandments in place for every sin.
So with that thought in mind how is it when a christian sins to day and disobeys God, the spirit is not currupted in the christian or dies like it did for adam.
would you all agree that to sin is also to disobey God.