Understanding the Trinity as a doctrine.
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You are still not understanding those texts in their context. If you claim there's only "One Lord" in the way you do, then the very next verse, in your reasoning means that the Son is not "God", for the "One God" of vs 6 is "the Father".
You might attempt as you have to say that "the Son" is "the Father", but that is a contradiction of terms, position and even in their relation nature-wise, see John 17:3, wherein the "Son" is not "the only true God", but "the Father" is, while "the Son" is "the only begotten of the Father".
2Tim 1:18: "The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well."
Two "Lord's", (o kurios; kuriou).
You might attempt as you have to say that "the Son" is "the Father", but that is a contradiction of terms, position and even in their relation nature-wise, see John 17:3, wherein the "Son" is not "the only true God", but "the Father" is, while "the Son" is "the only begotten of the Father".
2Tim 1:18: "The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well."
Two "Lord's", (o kurios; kuriou).
James 2:19, doesn't say the "two distinct Persons" are "One [Being]".
James 2:19 refers to the family JEHOVAH Elohiym as a harmonious trio that are contrasted to the plethora of false gods in opposition.
James does not say that the three individual Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "One [Being]" anywhere. It is nowhere in scripture. In fact, several times in the OT the words are plural.
John the Apostle, knew from Genesis 1:1, and throughout, that there have eternally been 3 persons, 3 divine witnesses, acting together in a musical chord, a trio, all in harmony together, in at-one-ment.
The word “God”, from the Hebrew [H430], “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym”, is plural in Genesis 1:1 KJB, but more than this, in Hebrew there are two kinds of plural, a dual plural [2 only] and true plural [3 or greater]. This word is in the True [3 or greater] plural.
We see that God the Father orchestrated, which the Son honoured the Father, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit was moved and was breathed, and thus all 3, the “trio” are the “Makers” [Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT & so-called LXX and *], see also Job 33:4; Isaiah 43:7; Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews 1:2, 2:10; Revelation 4:11, etc KJB.
What about when 'God' is referred to by plural ones?
"Elohiym" (Genesis 1:1 HOT, etc) x (a lot) (true plural, 3 or greater form)
"us" x 4 (plural pronoun), "our" x 3 (plural pronoun):
"we" x 3 (plural pronoun):
Yet, there are more:
This is just a sample of what is found in the Hebrew Masoretic OT. There are more.
Verbs are plural in association with Elohiym:
Gen 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
Gen 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
Jos 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
2Sa 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?
Psa 58:11 (vs 12 HOT) So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.
Pro 30:3 I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
Even the word "Adonai" ("לאדני") is given mostly/majority in the plural (Examples: Gen 18:30; Ex 34:23; Deut 10:17; Joshua 3:11,13; Ps 45:11; 114:7; 135:5; Mal 1:6).
James 2:19 refers to the family JEHOVAH Elohiym as a harmonious trio that are contrasted to the plethora of false gods in opposition.
James does not say that the three individual Persons of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are "One [Being]" anywhere. It is nowhere in scripture. In fact, several times in the OT the words are plural.
John the Apostle, knew from Genesis 1:1, and throughout, that there have eternally been 3 persons, 3 divine witnesses, acting together in a musical chord, a trio, all in harmony together, in at-one-ment.
Genesis 1:1 KJB - In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Genesis 1:2 KJB - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 KJB - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:6 KJB - And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 KJB - And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
Genesis 1:2 KJB - And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Genesis 1:3 KJB - And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Genesis 1:6 KJB - And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
Genesis 1:7 KJB - And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
The word “God”, from the Hebrew [H430], “אלהים”, “'ĕlôhı̂ym”, is plural in Genesis 1:1 KJB, but more than this, in Hebrew there are two kinds of plural, a dual plural [2 only] and true plural [3 or greater]. This word is in the True [3 or greater] plural.
[1] The Father - “... God said ...”, speaking to the Son,
[2] The Son - “... God made ...”
[3] The Holy Spirit - “... the Spirit of God moved upon ...”
[2] The Son - “... God made ...”
[3] The Holy Spirit - “... the Spirit of God moved upon ...”
We see that God the Father orchestrated, which the Son honoured the Father, and the Holy Ghost/Spirit was moved and was breathed, and thus all 3, the “trio” are the “Makers” [Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT & so-called LXX and *], see also Job 33:4; Isaiah 43:7; Romans 11:36; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Hebrews 1:2, 2:10; Revelation 4:11, etc KJB.
What about when 'God' is referred to by plural ones?
"Elohiym" (Genesis 1:1 HOT, etc) x (a lot) (true plural, 3 or greater form)
"us" x 4 (plural pronoun), "our" x 3 (plural pronoun):
Gen_1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen_3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen_11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Isa_6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Gen_3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
Gen_11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Isa_6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
"we" x 3 (plural pronoun):
Joh_3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Yet, there are more:
"Creators" x 1 (Ecclesiastes 12:1 HOT, "בוראיך") (plural pronoun)
"Makers" x 3 (Job 35:10 HOT, "עשׂי") & (Psalms 149:2 HOT, "בעשׂיו") & (Isaiah 54:5 HOT, "עשׂיך") (plural pronoun)
"Holy Ones" x 1 (Proverbs 9:10 HOT, "קדשׁים") (plural pronoun)
"Makers" x 3 (Job 35:10 HOT, "עשׂי") & (Psalms 149:2 HOT, "בעשׂיו") & (Isaiah 54:5 HOT, "עשׂיך") (plural pronoun)
"Holy Ones" x 1 (Proverbs 9:10 HOT, "קדשׁים") (plural pronoun)
This is just a sample of what is found in the Hebrew Masoretic OT. There are more.
Verbs are plural in association with Elohiym:
Gen 20:13 And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
"התעו" (wander) connected to Elohiym is plural.
Gen 35:7 And he built there an altar, and called the place Elbethel: because there God appeared unto him, when he fled from the face of his brother.
"נגלו" (revealed) connected to Elohiym is plural.
Deu 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
"קרבים" (nigh) connected to Elohiym is plural.
Jos 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
"קדשׁים" (Holy) connected to Elohiym is plural.
2Sa 7:23 And what one nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?
"הלכו" (went) connected to Elohiym is plural.
Psa 58:11 (vs 12 HOT) So that a man shall say, Verily there is a reward for the righteous: verily he is a God that judgeth in the earth.
"שׁפטים" (judge) connected to Elohiym is plural.
Pro 30:3 I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
"קדשׁים" (holy) connected to vs 4 with the "name" (of the Father), and that of "son's name".
Even the word "Adonai" ("לאדני") is given mostly/majority in the plural (Examples: Gen 18:30; Ex 34:23; Deut 10:17; Joshua 3:11,13; Ps 45:11; 114:7; 135:5; Mal 1:6).
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Now, consider the definition of “one” in regards God, the disciples, marriage, covenant and atonement:
They, which are entered into the marriage covenant, are to be one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person. This is how Jesus Christ even spoke of Himself and the Father, along with Himself and the Disciples, and even with the disciples amongst themselves, togetherness in mind, in purpose, in harmony, but not in person:
This is what prophecy said would be:
Other passages which also speak of togetherness of multiplicity:
They, which are entered into the marriage covenant, are to be one in purpose, in mind, in character, but not in person. This is how Jesus Christ even spoke of Himself and the Father, along with Himself and the Disciples, and even with the disciples amongst themselves, togetherness in mind, in purpose, in harmony, but not in person:
John 10:30 KJB - I and my Father are one.
John 10:30 GNT - εγω και ο πατηρ εν εσμεν
John 10:30 GNT-TR+ - εγωG1473 P-1NS καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM ενG1520 A-NSN εσμενG1510 V-PAI-1P
John 17:11 KJB - And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.John 10:30 GNT-TR+ - εγωG1473 P-1NS καιG2532 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM πατηρG3962 N-NSM ενG1520 A-NSN εσμενG1510 V-PAI-1P
John 17:11 GNT - καὶ οὐκέτι εἰμὶ ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ, καὶ οὗτοι ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ εἰσί, κἀγὼ πρὸς σὲ ἔρχομαι. πάτερ ἅγιε, τήρησον αὐτοὺς ἐν τῷ ὀνόματί σου ᾧ δέδωκάς μοι, ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν καθὼς ἡμεῖς.
John 17:11 GNT-TR+ - καιG2532 CONJ ουκG3756 PRT-N ετιG2089 ADV ειμιG1510 V-PAI-1S ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSM κοσμωG2889 N-DSM καιG2532 CONJ ουτοιG3778 D-NPM ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSM κοσμωG2889 N-DSM εισινG1510 V-PAI-3P καιG2532 CONJ εγωG1473 P-1NS προςG4314 PREP σεG4771 P-2AS ερχομαιG2064 V-PNI-1S πατερG3962 N-VSM αγιεG40 A-VSM τηρησονG5083 V-AAM-2S αυτουςG846 P-APM ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSN ονοματιG3686 N-DSN σουG4771 P-2GS ουςG3739 R-APM δεδωκαςG1325 V-RAI-2S μοιG1473 P-1DS ιναG2443 CONJ ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ενG1520 A-NSN καθωςG2531 ADV ημειςG1473 P-1NP
John 17:21 KJB - That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.John 17:11 GNT-TR+ - καιG2532 CONJ ουκG3756 PRT-N ετιG2089 ADV ειμιG1510 V-PAI-1S ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSM κοσμωG2889 N-DSM καιG2532 CONJ ουτοιG3778 D-NPM ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSM κοσμωG2889 N-DSM εισινG1510 V-PAI-3P καιG2532 CONJ εγωG1473 P-1NS προςG4314 PREP σεG4771 P-2AS ερχομαιG2064 V-PNI-1S πατερG3962 N-VSM αγιεG40 A-VSM τηρησονG5083 V-AAM-2S αυτουςG846 P-APM ενG1722 PREP τωG3588 T-DSN ονοματιG3686 N-DSN σουG4771 P-2GS ουςG3739 R-APM δεδωκαςG1325 V-RAI-2S μοιG1473 P-1DS ιναG2443 CONJ ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ενG1520 A-NSN καθωςG2531 ADV ημειςG1473 P-1NP
John 17:21 GNT - ἵνα πάντες ἓν ὦσι, καθὼς σύ, πάτερ, ἐν ἐμοὶ κἀγὼ ἐν σοί, ἵνα καὶ αὐτοὶ ἐν ἡμῖν ἓν ὦσιν, ἵνα ὁ κόσμος πιστεύῃ ὅτι σύ με ἀπέστειλας.
John 17:21 GNT-TR+ - ιναG2443 CONJ παντεςG3956 A-NPM ενG1520 A-NSN ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P καθωςG2531 ADV συG4771 P-2NS πατερG3962 N-VSM ενG1722 PREP εμοιG1473 P-1DS καγωG2504 P-1NS-K ενG1722 PREP σοιG4771 P-2DS ιναG2443 CONJ καιG2532 CONJ αυτοιG846 P-NPM ενG1722 PREP ημινG1473 P-1DP ενG1520 A-NSN ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ιναG2443 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM κοσμοςG2889 N-NSM πιστευσηG4100 V-AAS-3S οτιG3754 CONJ συG4771 P-2NS μεG1473 P-1AS απεστειλαςG649 V-AAI-2S
John 17:22 KJB - And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:John 17:21 GNT-TR+ - ιναG2443 CONJ παντεςG3956 A-NPM ενG1520 A-NSN ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P καθωςG2531 ADV συG4771 P-2NS πατερG3962 N-VSM ενG1722 PREP εμοιG1473 P-1DS καγωG2504 P-1NS-K ενG1722 PREP σοιG4771 P-2DS ιναG2443 CONJ καιG2532 CONJ αυτοιG846 P-NPM ενG1722 PREP ημινG1473 P-1DP ενG1520 A-NSN ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ιναG2443 CONJ οG3588 T-NSM κοσμοςG2889 N-NSM πιστευσηG4100 V-AAS-3S οτιG3754 CONJ συG4771 P-2NS μεG1473 P-1AS απεστειλαςG649 V-AAI-2S
John 17:22 GNT - κἀγὼ τὴν δόξαν ἢν δέδωκάς μοι δέδωκα αὐτοῖς, ἵνα ὦσιν ἓν καθὼς ἡμεῖς ἕν ἐσμεν,
John 17:22 GNT-TR+ - καιG2532 CONJ εγωG1473 P-1NS τηνG3588 T-ASF δοξανG1391 N-ASF ηνG3739 R-ASF δεδωκαςG1325 V-RAI-2S μοιG1473 P-1DS δεδωκαG1325 V-RAI-1S αυτοιςG846 P-DPM ιναG2443 CONJ ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ενG1520 A-NSN καθωςG2531 ADV ημειςG1473 P-1NP ενG1520 A-NSN εσμενG1510 V-PAI-1P
John 17:22 GNT-TR+ - καιG2532 CONJ εγωG1473 P-1NS τηνG3588 T-ASF δοξανG1391 N-ASF ηνG3739 R-ASF δεδωκαςG1325 V-RAI-2S μοιG1473 P-1DS δεδωκαG1325 V-RAI-1S αυτοιςG846 P-DPM ιναG2443 CONJ ωσινG1510 V-PAS-3P ενG1520 A-NSN καθωςG2531 ADV ημειςG1473 P-1NP ενG1520 A-NSN εσμενG1510 V-PAI-1P
This is what prophecy said would be:
Ezekiel 11:19 KJB - And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:19 HOT [read from Right to Left] -
ונתתי להם לב אחד ורוח חדשׁה אתן בקרבכם והסרתי לב האבן מבשׂרם ונתתי להם לב בשׂר׃
Ezekiel 11:19 HOT+ [read from Right to Left] -
בקרבכםH7130 אתןH5414 חדשׁהH2319 ורוחH7307 אחדH259 להם לבH3820 ונתתיH5414
בשׂר׃H1320 להם לבH3820 ונתתיH5414 מבשׂרםH1320 האבןH68 לבH3820 והסרתיH5493
ונתתי להם לב אחד ורוח חדשׁה אתן בקרבכם והסרתי לב האבן מבשׂרם ונתתי להם לב בשׂר׃
Ezekiel 11:19 HOT+ [read from Right to Left] -
בקרבכםH7130 אתןH5414 חדשׁהH2319 ורוחH7307 אחדH259 להם לבH3820 ונתתיH5414
בשׂר׃H1320 להם לבH3820 ונתתיH5414 מבשׂרםH1320 האבןH68 לבH3820 והסרתיH5493
Other passages which also speak of togetherness of multiplicity:
Genesis 1:26 KJB - And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 1:27 KJB - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 11:4 KJB - And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Genesis 11:5 KJB - And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Genesis 11:7 KJB - Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Nehemiah 8:1 KJB - And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
Isaiah 6:8 KJB - Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Joshua 9:2 KJB - That they gathered themselves together, to fight with Joshua and with Israel, with one accord.
Matthew 18:19 KJB - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
John 1:1 KJB - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 KJB - The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 3:11 KJB - Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Acts 1:14 KJB - These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts 2:1 KJB - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Acts 5:12 KJB - And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 7:57 KJB - Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Acts 8:6 KJB - And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Acts 12:20 KJB - And Herod was highly displeased with them of Tyre and Sidon: but they came with one accord to him, and, having made Blastus the king's chamberlain their friend, desired peace; because their country was nourished by the king's country.
Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Acts 15:25 KJB - It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 18:12 KJB - And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,
Acts 19:29 KJB - And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
Genesis 1:27 KJB - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Genesis 11:4 KJB - And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
Genesis 11:5 KJB - And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
Genesis 11:7 KJB - Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Nehemiah 8:1 KJB - And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
Isaiah 6:8 KJB - Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Joshua 9:2 KJB - That they gathered themselves together, to fight with Joshua and with Israel, with one accord.
Matthew 18:19 KJB - Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
John 1:1 KJB - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 KJB - The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 KJB - All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 3:11 KJB - Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
Acts 1:14 KJB - These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Acts 2:1 KJB - And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Acts 4:24 KJB - And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is:
Acts 5:12 KJB - And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch.
Acts 7:57 KJB - Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
Acts 8:6 KJB - And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
Acts 12:20 KJB - And Herod was highly displeased with them of Tyre and Sidon: but they came with one accord to him, and, having made Blastus the king's chamberlain their friend, desired peace; because their country was nourished by the king's country.
Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Acts 15:25 KJB - It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,
Acts 18:12 KJB - And when Gallio was the deputy of Achaia, the Jews made insurrection with one accord against Paul, and brought him to the judgment seat,
Acts 19:29 KJB - And the whole city was filled with confusion: and having caught Gaius and Aristarchus, men of Macedonia, Paul's companions in travel, they rushed with one accord into the theatre.
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Now, consider the definition of “one” in regards God, the disciples, marriage, covenant and atonement:
Romans 12:16 KJB - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Romans 15:6 KJB - That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:10 KJB - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
2 Corinthians 13:11 KJB - Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Ephesians 4:3 KJB - Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 KJB - There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Philippians 1:27 KJB - Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Philippians 2:2 KJB - Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Philippians 4:2 KJB - I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
1 Peter 3:8 KJB - Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1 John 5:7 KJB - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8 KJB - And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
As seen, even the wicked can be in a similar state:
The Bible [King James Bible for English] is a specific example of this “at-one-ment”, itself not only being a work of God and man-kind [even as Jesus is God and man], it is also “one” book, being many books, many prophets, many people, that all agree in one, even as the “law” and the “testimony” agree together with one mind, one purpose, though they are God's “two witnesses” [plural] agreeing together in witness [singular]. The 4 Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, though each a differing personal witness, all agree together when compared prayerfully:
These are JEHOVAH Elohiym's own standard for testimony, or witness. This is why there must always be 2 or 3 persons to witness. Jesus Himself stated that this is the way it was to always be:
Romans 12:16 KJB - Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Romans 15:6 KJB - That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:10 KJB - Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
2 Corinthians 13:11 KJB - Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
Ephesians 4:3 KJB - Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Ephesians 4:4 KJB - There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Philippians 1:27 KJB - Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Philippians 2:2 KJB - Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
Philippians 4:2 KJB - I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.
1 Peter 3:8 KJB - Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:
1 John 5:7 KJB - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8 KJB - And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
As seen, even the wicked can be in a similar state:
Revelation 17:13 KJB - These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
Revelation 17:13 GNT - οὗτοι μίαν γνώμην ἔχουσι, καὶ τὴν δύναμιν καὶ τὴν ἐξουσίαν αὐτῶν τῷ θηρίῳ διδόασιν.
Revelation 17:13 GNT-TR+ - ουτοιG3778 D-NPM μιανG1520 A-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF εχουσινG2192 V-PAI-3P καιG2532 CONJ τηνG3588 T-ASF δυναμινG1411 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ τηνG3588 T-ASF εξουσιανG1849 N-ASF εαυτωνG1438 F-3GPM τωG3588 T-DSN θηριωG2342 N-DSN διαδιδωσουσινG1239 V-PAI-3P
Revelation 17:17 KJB - For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.Revelation 17:13 GNT-TR+ - ουτοιG3778 D-NPM μιανG1520 A-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF εχουσινG2192 V-PAI-3P καιG2532 CONJ τηνG3588 T-ASF δυναμινG1411 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ τηνG3588 T-ASF εξουσιανG1849 N-ASF εαυτωνG1438 F-3GPM τωG3588 T-DSN θηριωG2342 N-DSN διαδιδωσουσινG1239 V-PAI-3P
Revelation 17:17 GNT - ὁ γὰρ Θεὸς ἔδωκεν εἰς τὰς καρδίας αὐτῶν ποιῆσαι τὴν γνώμην αὐτοῦ, καὶ ποιῆσαι μίαν γνώμην καὶ δοῦναι τὴν βασιλείαν αὐτῶν τῷ θηρίῳ ἄχρι τελεσθῶσιν οἱ λόγοι τοῦ Θεοῦ.
Revelation 17:17 GNT-TR+ - οG3588 T-NSM γαρG1063 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM εδωκενG1325 V-AAI-3S ειςG1519 PREP ταςG3588 T-APF καρδιαςG2588 N-APF αυτωνG846 P-GPM ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN τηνG3588 T-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM καιG2532 CONJ ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN μιανG1520 A-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ δουναιG1325 V-2AAN τηνG3588 T-ASF βασιλειανG932 N-ASF αυτωνG846 P-GPM τωG3588 T-DSN θηριωG2342 N-DSN αχριG891 ADV τελεσθηG5055 V-APS-3S ταG3588 T-NPN ρηματαG4487 N-NPN τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM
Revelation 17:17 GNT-TR+ - οG3588 T-NSM γαρG1063 CONJ θεοςG2316 N-NSM εδωκενG1325 V-AAI-3S ειςG1519 PREP ταςG3588 T-APF καρδιαςG2588 N-APF αυτωνG846 P-GPM ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN τηνG3588 T-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF αυτουG846 P-GSM καιG2532 CONJ ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN μιανG1520 A-ASF γνωμηνG1106 N-ASF καιG2532 CONJ δουναιG1325 V-2AAN τηνG3588 T-ASF βασιλειανG932 N-ASF αυτωνG846 P-GPM τωG3588 T-DSN θηριωG2342 N-DSN αχριG891 ADV τελεσθηG5055 V-APS-3S ταG3588 T-NPN ρηματαG4487 N-NPN τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM
The Bible [King James Bible for English] is a specific example of this “at-one-ment”, itself not only being a work of God and man-kind [even as Jesus is God and man], it is also “one” book, being many books, many prophets, many people, that all agree in one, even as the “law” and the “testimony” agree together with one mind, one purpose, though they are God's “two witnesses” [plural] agreeing together in witness [singular]. The 4 Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, though each a differing personal witness, all agree together when compared prayerfully:
Isaiah 8:20 KJB - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
John 8:17 KJB - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Acts 10:43 KJB - To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Romans 3:21 KJB - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
2 Corinthians 13:1 KJB - This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Etc.
John 8:17 KJB - It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true.
Acts 10:43 KJB - To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
Acts 15:15 KJB - And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Romans 3:21 KJB - But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
2 Corinthians 13:1 KJB - This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
Etc.
These are JEHOVAH Elohiym's own standard for testimony, or witness. This is why there must always be 2 or 3 persons to witness. Jesus Himself stated that this is the way it was to always be:
John 5:31 KJB - If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
John 8:13 KJB - The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
John 8:18 KJB - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
John 8:13 KJB - The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.
John 8:14 KJB - Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, [yet] my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.
John 8:18 KJB - I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
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How are the Father, Son and Holy Ghost one Spirit, one Lord, and one God?
The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who incarnated as a Man (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11), taking on an added nature of human flesh (John 1:1,14, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
Thus the Spirit who inhabits eternity is the same Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ.
Jesus released that Spirit (with the title of Holy Ghost) back to the Father in eternity, in Luke 23:46.
For when the Father descended, it was impossible that He should have VACATED ETERNITY.
Because it is the nature of those who inhabit eternity, that they dwell in it for ever.
The Father is a Spirit (John 4:23-24) who incarnated as a Man (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11), taking on an added nature of human flesh (John 1:1,14, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).
Thus the Spirit who inhabits eternity is the same Spirit who dwells in Jesus Christ.
Jesus released that Spirit (with the title of Holy Ghost) back to the Father in eternity, in Luke 23:46.
For when the Father descended, it was impossible that He should have VACATED ETERNITY.
Because it is the nature of those who inhabit eternity, that they dwell in it for ever.
You have misinterpreted Ephesians 4:5. Here it is in context...
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
This does not say that the Father is the Lord, that the Holy Spirit is the Lord, or that the Father is the Holy Spirit.
Partially correct. There is no indefinite article ("a") in the Greek. It says "God is spirit". It is a statement of nature, not of identity.
Incorrect. The Father was not incarnated; the Son was. Paul is quoting a psalm or hymn of the time, which clearly refers to Jesus, not to the Father.
The Son took on flesh; the Father did not.
While you are not wrong on this, you have not established it from a logical progression of ideas, so your "Thus" is unjustified.
Did Jesus have a spirit before He was baptized? If He was fully human, then He had a human spirit. He was filled with the Holy Spirit just as Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit.
The Father didn't "descend"; the Son did. Mix that up, and you're teetering on the edge of heresy.
Really? Where is that in Scripture?
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
This does not say that the Father is the Lord, that the Holy Spirit is the Lord, or that the Father is the Holy Spirit.
Partially correct. There is no indefinite article ("a") in the Greek. It says "God is spirit". It is a statement of nature, not of identity.
Incorrect. The Father was not incarnated; the Son was. Paul is quoting a psalm or hymn of the time, which clearly refers to Jesus, not to the Father.
The Son took on flesh; the Father did not.
While you are not wrong on this, you have not established it from a logical progression of ideas, so your "Thus" is unjustified.
Did Jesus have a spirit before He was baptized? If He was fully human, then He had a human spirit. He was filled with the Holy Spirit just as Christians are filled with the Holy Spirit.
The Father didn't "descend"; the Son did. Mix that up, and you're teetering on the edge of heresy.
Really? Where is that in Scripture?
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@Dino246,
So, is the Son, 1/3 of God, or a 2nd God in your opinion?
It is my contention that God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11) and not that 1/3 of God was manifest in the flesh, neither that a 2nd God was manifest in the flesh.
Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).
So, is the Son, 1/3 of God, or a 2nd God in your opinion?
It is my contention that God was manifest in the flesh (1 Timothy 3:16 (kjv), Isaiah 9:6, John 14:7-11) and not that 1/3 of God was manifest in the flesh, neither that a 2nd God was manifest in the flesh.
Jesus was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35).
2 Thessalonians 2:1-2
Easy-to-Read Version
Evil Things Will Happen
2 Brothers and sisters, we have something to say about the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. We want to talk to you about that time when we will meet together with him. 2 Don’t let yourselves be easily upset or worried if you hear that the day of the Lord has already come. Someone might say that this idea came from us—in something the Spirit told us, or in something we said, or in a letter we wrote.
Me: The Kingdom Internear in verse 2 on the side or in the greek area, translates kuros as Jehovah. Kuros is the same word in verse 1. It is the same grammar. Since the JW Bible translates one as Jehovah then they must also translate both as Jehovah --- otherwise they are being completely dishonest. Below, is posted for context.
Ephesians 4
New International Version
Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it[a] says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
9 (What does “he ascended” mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions[c]? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.
The Son is the second Person/Being of the family JEHOVAH Elohiym. There are 3 Persons/Beings in the family JEHOVAH Elohiym. Jesus is the 2nd Person/Being, after the Person/Being of the Father, who is also God (Deity in nature, eternal, uncreated, self-existing, over all creation), and thus the Son is "God" who was "with" "the God" (Person/Being of the Father).
1. JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days, the only true God (Person/Being of the Father of eternal Deity)
2. Jesus JEHOVAH (JEHOVAH Jr), the God (Person/Being of Eternal Deity) who became manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh, the only begotten Son (Person/Being of the Son, the word "only begotten" meaning of the same eternal nature of the Father (whose nature is underived with Himself), for Jesus is the "express image" of the Father, who came in the name of the Father.
3. The Holy Spirit/Ghost of JEHOVAH, the third Person/Being of the Godhead (family JEHOVAH Elohiym), whose nature is a mystery not given in scripture, but "God" who is a "He" who comes in the name of Jesus.
The eternal Heavenly Trio - family JEHOVAH Elohiym, over all creation as "Godhead".
In the beginning, a type was given in the united marriage of the Person/Being Adam (representing the Father as Head) to the Person/Being Eve (of the nature of Adam, representing the submitted Son's part who always honours the Father) by God (in this type, by the Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH).
Differing Persons/Beings.
1. JEHOVAH, the Ancient of Days, the only true God (Person/Being of the Father of eternal Deity)
2. Jesus JEHOVAH (JEHOVAH Jr), the God (Person/Being of Eternal Deity) who became manifest in the likeness of sinful flesh, the only begotten Son (Person/Being of the Son, the word "only begotten" meaning of the same eternal nature of the Father (whose nature is underived with Himself), for Jesus is the "express image" of the Father, who came in the name of the Father.
3. The Holy Spirit/Ghost of JEHOVAH, the third Person/Being of the Godhead (family JEHOVAH Elohiym), whose nature is a mystery not given in scripture, but "God" who is a "He" who comes in the name of Jesus.
The eternal Heavenly Trio - family JEHOVAH Elohiym, over all creation as "Godhead".
In the beginning, a type was given in the united marriage of the Person/Being Adam (representing the Father as Head) to the Person/Being Eve (of the nature of Adam, representing the submitted Son's part who always honours the Father) by God (in this type, by the Holy Spirit of JEHOVAH).
Differing Persons/Beings.
If I were to try to present this idea in a limited humanistic fashion, it might go something like this:
Father Jones
Son Jones Jr.
Cousin Jones.
The trio "Jones", or "Jones" family. Three Persons/Beings working together as united family without dischord, but rather thinking and acting as harmonious chord.
Owning "Jones" Construction, they are all "Boss" over their employees.
Father Jones
Son Jones Jr.
Cousin Jones.
The trio "Jones", or "Jones" family. Three Persons/Beings working together as united family without dischord, but rather thinking and acting as harmonious chord.
Owning "Jones" Construction, they are all "Boss" over their employees.
Even in maths, this works, because of something called "set theory".
Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Set Deity)
Angels, mankind & lesser creatures (Set creation)
Set Deity is Head over Set creation. Yet, in (Set Deity) as (Head) are three Persons/Beings which individually or together are "Head" over creation.
Yet in (Set Deity) there is also heirarchy.
Set Father
Set Son
Set Holy Spirit.
Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Set Deity)
Angels, mankind & lesser creatures (Set creation)
Set Deity is Head over Set creation. Yet, in (Set Deity) as (Head) are three Persons/Beings which individually or together are "Head" over creation.
Yet in (Set Deity) there is also heirarchy.
Set Father
Set Son
Set Holy Spirit.
No; because if Jesus was eternally begotten and only the 2nd Person of the Trinity descended to become a Man, then it was either 1/3 of God or else it was a 2nd God that became a Man.
I'll ask again: which one do you believe in?
It means that God incarnated in human flesh.
What do you think I mean by the term "begotten"?
I'll ask again: which one do you believe in?
It means that God incarnated in human flesh.
What do you think I mean by the term "begotten"?
There is one Spirit who is the Father (John 4:23-24); who inhabits eternity (Isaiah 57:15) as a Spirit without flesh.
Jesus Christ is that same Spirit come in human flesh;
Since He is God and therefore He is a Spirit (John 4:24); and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).
The Spirit dwelling in Jesus while He walked the earth was the Father (John 14:7-11).
He released that Spirit back to the Father when He died (Luke 23:46); with the title of Holy Ghost.
For it is impossible that the Father would VACATE ETERNITY when He descended into time to become a Man.
For it is the nature of One who inhabits eternity that they dwell in eternity for ever...from everlasting to everlasting.
Therefore I contend that God is absolutely ONE and that He exists as three distinct Persons within the Trinity.
Jesus Christ is that same Spirit come in human flesh;
Since He is God and therefore He is a Spirit (John 4:24); and there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).
The Spirit dwelling in Jesus while He walked the earth was the Father (John 14:7-11).
He released that Spirit back to the Father when He died (Luke 23:46); with the title of Holy Ghost.
For it is impossible that the Father would VACATE ETERNITY when He descended into time to become a Man.
For it is the nature of One who inhabits eternity that they dwell in eternity for ever...from everlasting to everlasting.
Therefore I contend that God is absolutely ONE and that He exists as three distinct Persons within the Trinity.
It is not absurd but you are calling it absurd in order to evade the question because you know that the answer defeats your point of view.
I will define it as nothing other than "begotten"; for I can think of no other term to define it.
If you think I am defining it as something different, then by all means set forth your term by which you think I am defining it; and I will tell you whether or not you are accurate in your assessment.
I will define it as nothing other than "begotten"; for I can think of no other term to define it.
If you think I am defining it as something different, then by all means set forth your term by which you think I am defining it; and I will tell you whether or not you are accurate in your assessment.