The doctrine of entire sanctification.

[SophieT]

In 2 Corinthians 7:1, we are told to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord by cleansing ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

This indicates that there is such a thing as filthiness of spirit;

And that if we can cleanse ourselves from that, we can also cleanse ourselves from the filthiness of the flesh.

please tell us how you perfect your own holiness since there is none as holy as God and He cannot accept less before Him?

“There is none holy like the LORD: for there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God. I Samuel 2:2

so how are you perfecting that holiness? how have you become utterly devoid of sin and appear before God as sinless and holy?

further now you say there is no such thing as filthiness of spirit...yet you have said over and over that our spirits also sin

how do you arrive at these contrary conclusions?

 

[SophieT]

No; I have contended against the gnostic idea that if we sin with our flesh, we do not sin with our spirit.

if that is so, perhaps word your contentions better because that idea did not come across at all

 

[Magenta]

Since gnosticism is diametrically opposed to orthodox Christianity, I believe it is expedient to reject its doctrines.

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems which coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

(Distinguished by the conviction that matter is evil and that emancipation comes through gnosis.) Viewing material existence as flawed or evil, Gnostic cosmogony generally presents a distinction between a supreme, hidden God and a malevolent lesser divinity (sometimes associated with the Yahweh of the Old Testament) who is responsible for creating the material universe. Gnostics considered the principal element of salvation to be direct knowledge of the supreme divinity in the form of mystical or esoteric insight. Many Gnostic texts deal not in concepts of sin and repentance, but with illusion and enlightenment. So says wiki

 

[Jocund]

I believe that Jesus is able to cleanse the inside of the cup and platter as well as the outside (Matthew 23:25-28).

It says in Psalms 10:4 concerning the wicked, that God is not in all of his thoughts. I believe that this also refers to the Romans 7:14-25 Christian.

For the one who has graduated into Romans 8, God is in all of his thoughts and Jesus has cleansed the inside of the cup and platter.

The inside of the cup is clean, the outside of the cup is clean, but the cup material itself is still incapable of being clean. Romans 7:25 is a statement of present condition, not a reflection on Paul's then-past.

 

[justbyfaith]

The inside of the cup is clean, the outside of the cup is clean, but the cup material itself is still incapable of being clean. Romans 7:25 is a statement of present condition, not a reflection on Paul's then-past.

I disagree.

 

[SophieT]

In 2 Corinthians 7:1, we are told to perfect holiness in the fear of the Lord by cleansing ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit.

This indicates that there is such a thing as filthiness of spirit;

And that if we can cleanse ourselves from that, we can also cleanse ourselves from the filthiness of the flesh.

you cannot cleanse yourself

Jesus died to cleanse you. you would not even know you were such a mess without Him. (goes for everyone) this verse simply means to identify those things that hinder you from sanctification...which is a process. we do not achieve perfection by our actions but we do work with the Holy Spirit to realize we are still being saved. we have been saved, we are being saved, we will be saved

nowhere does Paul or anyone else who contributed to the Bible, tell us that we must be perfect to be saved or that we loose our salvation if we do not attain that impossible goal

the fear of God means REVERENCE...not cowering under the bed because you sinned

we have had a complete blood transfer.....we are now God's beloved child and we should rejoice in that and not confuse God's perfection with ours...as if we had any of our own

 

[justbyfaith]

you cannot cleanse yourself

So, 2 Corinthians 7:1 is telling us to do something that we cannot do.

 

[SophieT]

So, 2 Corinthians 7:1 is telling us to do something that we cannot do.

actually you do not understand the process

I will leave you to your thread

 

[justpassinthrough]

It therefore follows that any thought or impulse to do evil is sinful. Paul describes that he has evil within him that he wars against. It then follows that so long as that evil is within him a part of him constantly sins, but the dominant willpower that identifies as Paul in Christ is free of sin through Christ..

The physical body contains sin, and desires to have the sinful cravings gratified.

We have been empowered by Jesus Christ with the Spirit, so that we can reign in dominion over the sin in our flesh.

We must actively be involved in this struggle to overcome.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Please understand eternal life verses eternal damnation are what Paul is referring to here Christ n the passage.


He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8


again


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4







JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

you cannot cleanse yourself QUOTE]



Denying the scriptures is not a good theology.



Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

• let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh

Do you cleanse yourself when you bathe?


Saying that we cannot cleanse ourselves is down right false?





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

you cannot cleanse yourself

Denying the scriptures is not a good theology.



Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

• let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh

Do you cleanse yourself when you bathe?


Saying that we cannot cleanse ourselves is down right false?





JPT

 

[SophieT]

Denying the scriptures is not a good theology.



Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2 Corinthians 7:1

• let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh

Do you cleanse yourself when you bathe?


Saying that we cannot cleanse ourselves is down right false?





JPT

right. so why did Jesus have to die?

you self cleansers have misapprehended the truth of the gospel and managed to create a new gospel that is no gospel at all

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

There's a trinity of salvation - Justification, Sanctification and Glorification. The substitutional atonement of Jesus on the cross was just the justification in His first coming. Being saved is not a get-out-of-hell free card, we still need to sanctify ourselves for the rest of our lives. I posted an illustration on this topic in the link below, and here's a quote of what I wrote there:

"I hope this could help you understand that there's a trifecta of sin - Penalty, Power and Presence. The result of that is Practice of sin, also known as habitual sin. Jesus paid for the penalty of sin on the cross, but after that, it's lifetime process of sanctification to overcome the power of sin. He said this to the adulterous woman - "neither do I condemn you, go, and sin no more." How do we sin no more? That's the job of the Holy Spirit, because as long as we breathe, this is still a fallen world, and we still have a sinful nature. Only at the end, either His kingdom comes or we come to His kingdom, that's when the presence of sin is finally wiped away. "

https://communities.win/c/Christianity/p/141roANKES/the-trinity-of-salvation--justif/c

 

[Jocund]

We must actively be involved in this struggle to overcome.


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

By necessity, a warring mind means that there are components in opposition to each other. If one part advocates for sin and another for righteousness, a part of that person is sinful. If covetting is sinful as a nonphysical work, then the covetting part of that person does indeed sin, and that is what Paul is discussing in Romans 8:25. He is literally saying there are two parts to himself, one that will live and one that will die.

Paul's commentary on covetting in Romans 8 is clever.

He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8

He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

Paul stated that he sins by virtue of his carnal nature (thou shalt not covet). Has Paul in Christ failed to keep the commandments? Does that make Paul a liar and devoid of truth? No. Not by scripture. Therefore what is wrong in this case, scripture or the interpretation? Clearly the interpretation.

What does it mean to keep His commandments? What does it mean to be a liar? These are the pertinant topics to continue.

 

[justpassinthrough]

right. so why did Jesus have to die?

you self cleansers have misapprehended the truth of the gospel and managed to create a new gospel that is no gospel at all

That we may have an eternal sacrifice for our sins.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



We are not forgiven and therefore cleansed of our sin if we don’t confess our sin.



Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3





JPT

 

[justpassinthrough]

By necessity, a warring mind means that there are components in opposition to each other. If one part advocates for sin and another for righteousness, a part of that person is sinful. If covetting is sinful as a nonphysical work, then the covetting part of that person does indeed sin, and that is what Paul is discussing in Romans 8:25. He is literally saying there are two parts to himself, one that will live and one that will die.

Paul's commentary on covetting in Romans 8 is clever.



Paul stated that he sins by virtue of his carnal nature (thou shalt not covet). Has Paul in Christ failed to keep the commandments? Does that make Paul a liar and devoid of truth? No. Not by scripture. Therefore what is wrong in this case, scripture or the interpretation? Clearly the interpretation.

What does it mean to keep His commandments? What does it mean to be a liar? These are the pertinant topics to continue.

The unrenewed mind is carnal. We must work, put for the effort to have our minds renewed by applying the principles of His word to our life.


Paul says it this way —


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

JLB

 

[Jocund]

The unrenewed mind is carnal. We must work, put for the effort to have our minds renewed by applying the principles of His word to our life.


Paul says it this way —


Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

• For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
• but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

JLB

And what Romans 8:25 emphasizes is that the types of sowing are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The unrenewed mind is carnal. We must work, put for the effort to have our minds renewed by applying the principles of His word to our life.

Yeah, till the ground, break the bedrock, clear the thorns for the seed to germinate. Must be done before any physical work.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life. Galatians 6:7-8

And yet the wicked servant accuses the master of reaping what he did not sow!

 

[SophieT]

That we may have an eternal sacrifice for our sins.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9



We are not forgiven and therefore cleansed of our sin if we don’t confess our sin.



Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. Luke 17:3





JPT

well you're just passing through

 

[justpassinthrough]

And what Romans 8:25 emphasizes is that the types of sowing are not mutually exclusive.

The scripture I quoted is Galatians 6:7-8.