Pondering Revival of the saints.

[CS1]

You were a fan of Pee Wee Herman weren't you? "I know I am but what are you?"
Your opinion is skewered. Mine just brought that to your attention. That doesn't make it wrong. That makes me observant and candid.
You don't know the basics about our faith.

Let me assist you. The old is done away, behold the new has come.
Whoever you were before you say you came to Christ no longer exists nor matters. If you accept that then you can in no wise claim it doesn't apply to other Christians.
No one has to meet your demands to revive the dead to your satisfaction!

Further, and lastly, Jesus Christ never taught the trinity! And God himself in the Old Testament tells you he is one and beside him there is no Savior. If you use that God given truth and go to the New Testament you'll read God's angel sent unto Mary told her when she delivered her son, begat upon her by God himself, she was to name him Emmanuel. Meaning, GOD WITH us!
When God is in all that he has created, all things are of and from God, insisting on the triune teachings is PAGANISM! To insist there is one God appearing in three persons. Because that is not Biblical! And God himself proves that.

If you can't get past your obsession with our brothers past life that is no longer relevant under Christ's grace, that's your issue! It isn't of God nor the Gospel.

And I'd recommend to my brother in Christ @Rhomphaeam ,don't let such a 1 vex you further. They're not interested in learning what you have to share. They're limited in their understanding. It is up to God to open their heart and mind. It is not, clearly, anything we are able to achieve.

peewee Herman? OOOOOooook that was odd. You speak of a child molester, whatever floats your boat guy. Please don't assist me.

I'm good. We can stop here.

 

[wintersrain]

Thanks for the advise. Perhaps I may begin a thread on the subject of the Oneness of God and the indivisibility of the three persons as stated in the creeds of the church. You could knock me down with a feather in what you just said - given my own response to the brother, where I cited that very doctrine you have called pagan.

I got a feather around here somewhere. (Eyes chicken) lol Why are they running? Hmmmm.

Maybe you've seen this but the Trinity doctrine has a history of being introduced into the church long centuries after Christ. Think about it. One God.
In three persons? No.
For instance. Take yourself. You are a Christian. You are also..... Fill in the blank. If you work, if you're married, as example.
Does that make you one man in three different persons? Or are you one man regardless of where we find you as a husband, employee, etc...?

When God said he is one and there is no other, how do we quantify God is one in three persons? Which are precisely what he said he is not, other.

Throughout the Bible God tells us he is holy, he is a spirit. That last part especially is relevant in that God is a spirit and is holy. That's why we're told we must worship him in spirit. Therefore, God can't be three separate persons. Father, son, Holy Spirit. Because God is , as he told us, holy and a spirit. And when Emmanuel was to be born we were told he was God, with us.
In the beginning was the word. And the word was with God. And the word WAS GOD.
Look>>>> And the WORD, (that was God) became flesh and dwelt among us.
He's not separate when He is Jesus/Emmanuel. He is Emmanuel because he begat himself upon Mary to be born into the world in the form of man. To deliver to us holy spiritual truth appearing as Messiah, a man. Who, unlike men, healed the blind, raised the dead, cast out demons, and defeated death after being publicly crucified before the eyes of his followers, his mother, and his Apostles especially.
Those people gathered knew crucifixion was certain slow death.

Jesus arose from the tomb in three days, as he said he would. Man doesn't do that. God does! Emmanuel, Jesus, lived the good news. And he proved it was absolute truth when he said the Gospel brings the message of eternal life! Because Jesus lived and died that example. He appeared to die, as man in flesh would on the cross. Then he arose from the death the flesh suffers and walked again and continued his truth, ministry, for another 40 days!
It's all allegory, metaphor, simile. Parable!
God is all.

40 days. Don't forget the importance of Gematria in Judaism.

 

[CS1]

Not only are you immature you're woefully ignorant of what it means to be reborn in Christ.
Otherwise, you'd know former lives were buried in the baptism of waters and the Holy Spirit. And he/she that arose from the waters, is made new in Christ.
You don't get that. That's why you're mad when it is brought to your attention that Rhomphaeam has no obligation to expound on what is no longer himself or his life!
You were done with Rhomphaeam when you launched an attack on his teachings that you nary understood. I'm also done with your posts. It isn't healthy for my spirit to read such darkness.

If it be God's will, may he lead you to the light. Amen.

not at all I am not mad in fact I just asked two questions as I was addressing
p_rehbein per his conversation and comment. I asked a question. You did not see that.

 

[wintersrain]

I can see how if after every revival a time of darkness comes some may have a bit of a distant view on revival but that is how the enemy works after all if the Lord brings forth good crops with wheat of plenty he will poison the field so that the next crops will bear bad ones but the work that was done by the work of the holy spirit is not to be discounted or any less looked on. Revival is always needed as the church has a habit of falling asleep and losing it's fire, perhaps some see it as an answer to their lives or perhaps they just want to see God's hand moves in wonderful ways but one thing for sure is that as it stands the church has fallen asleep.

However this is because we have had it easy for so long, in every account of any group of believers showing a true fire and emboldenment it was always under heavy suffering and persicution where their faith was put under the fire, yes some do go through tis but nowhere near the level of the old churches I am part portuguese Jew and my ancestors originally came from Portuguese they were so persicuted by the catholic church because they either had to convert or be killed some were even captured and tortured until they converted they fled to italy until they eventually came to America now that is persicution these days we get made fun of or mocked for our faith.

RRevival is not always something that happens in good times either sometimes it happens specifically because of harsh times or can be the out come or omen of hard times, so anyone hoping for revival thinking it will be amazing and wonderful seeing God's hand move in mighty ways well you may be right it may very well play out that way however it also may be that it means you are about to enter into great tribulation and your faith will be put to the test.

Now as far as revival goes I haven't heard from God about that I have however had a sense of an anointing coming which seems to be different I'm not really sure how exactly it just feels different

Maybe the "time of darkness" that comes to some after Revival is a test by God to let them put into action what the spirit has put into their heart?

Revival=Revived.

 

[CS1]

So, I guess we just throw away our Bibles because the Scriptures within are not Truth?

Romans, Chapter 10:

9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13) For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


I do not know what Church Group/Denomination you belong to, or, if you even belong to one, but whatever it is, they teach a different Gospel than the one I read in my KJV.

In truth, it sounds much like a mix between pagan teachings and Christian teachings, and that ain't the Gospel of Jesus IMO....

If the Gospel message and word of God was not preached how did one become saved? I think you made a good point, to challenge that assertion is attacked?

 

[wintersrain]

Thanks for the advise. Perhaps I may begin a thread on the subject of the Oneness of God and the indivisibility of the three persons as stated in the creeds of the church. You could knock me down with a feather in what you just said - given my own response to the brother, where I cited that very doctrine you have called pagan.

P.S Because there is a 5 minute limit to editing posts. In some Christian community forums there is a strict rule regarding the Triune/Trinity Doctrine. Some forums permit discussion to the contrary. Some ban people for broaching the contrary.
I am new here and don't know which is what here. However, if you don't read me replying in the near future it could be the latter is the rule here.

If that were to be the case, I feel blessed to have made your acquaintance. Perhaps that is the soul/sole purpose for God leading me to join this site. You've contributed greatly to my studies by sharing your perspective. For that I thank you and wish you continued blessings as you follow God's light.

HUGS

Peace be upon you always.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Here's a thought some don't like to consider. YOU could be wrong.

You are correct. People should tread carefully when they do not fully understand how God works. Right off the bat, the thread became a vehicle for personal attacks which is not how it should be. And as we see in the OP, the minute there are revivals, there are serious attacks from the Enemy. That is to be expected.

 

[CS1]

I can see how if after every revival a time of darkness comes some may have a bit of a distant view on revival but that is how the enemy works after all if the Lord brings forth good crops with wheat of plenty he will poison the field so that the next crops will bear bad ones but the work that was done by the work of the holy spirit is not to be discounted or any less looked on. Revival is always needed as the church has a habit of falling asleep and losing it's fire, perhaps some see it as an answer to their lives or perhaps they just want to see God's hand moves in wonderful ways but one thing for sure is that as it stands the church has fallen asleep.

However this is because we have had it easy for so long, in every account of any group of believers showing a true fire and emboldenment it was always under heavy suffering and persicution where their faith was put under the fire, yes some do go through tis but nowhere near the level of the old churches I am part portuguese Jew and my ancestors originally came from Portuguese they were so persicuted by the catholic church because they either had to convert or be killed some were even captured and tortured until they converted they fled to italy until they eventually came to America now that is persicution these days we get made fun of or mocked for our faith.

RRevival is not always something that happens in good times either sometimes it happens specifically because of harsh times or can be the out come or omen of hard times, so anyone hoping for revival thinking it will be amazing and wonderful seeing God's hand move in mighty ways well you may be right it may very well play out that way however it also may be that it means you are about to enter into great tribulation and your faith will be put to the test.

Now as far as revival goes I haven't heard from God about that I have however had a sense of an anointing coming which seems to be different I'm not really sure how exactly it just feels different

You make a very good point. A move of God which the effects is known as "revival" is clearly seen in the word of God in both the Old and New Testament. God heard the cry of HIS People. 1chron 7:14 HIS people called by HIS name.

to look at a move of God and ask :


The question we may need to ask ourselves however is, how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society.

This presupposition doesn't address the cause or the effects of " Revival". why?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

If the Gospel message and word of God was not preached how did one become saved? I think you made a good point, to challenge that assertion is attacked?

No it wasn't attacked - it was answered and that isn't all he said. Try being honest in your posts (full) not so fragmented because that gives the impression that you are being divisive. Why have you driven your position on requiring an answer to two questions and then showing that you were already the recipient of the first answer several weeks ago in the link you posted @#476 - which at that time @#478 you made reference to me as a former devil worshiper because you assumed that I don't believe in the baptism and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Stop being so divisive.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If the Gospel message and word of God was not preached how did one become saved?

Are you aware that many Muslims have testified to meeting Christ personally in dreams and visions and being converted?

Why Muslims Become Christians
Duane Miller notes that “Christ’s converts from Islam are often driven away from Islam as much as they are drawn to Christ or Christianity.” Focusing here only on the factors that propel Muslims specifically toward Christianity finds the list to be long.
Dreams and visions, especially of Jesus, probably draw about a quarter of MBBs. Mike Ansari, an Iranian convert, reports that many people “are actually having dreams and visions about a shining man dressed in white far before we are out there telling them about Jesus.” Dabrina Bet Tamraz notes that Iranian converts often ask each other, “Have you seen the white[-robed] man, have you seen Jesus?” The leader of a Presbyterian church in Pakistan found that Afghan imams were traveling hundreds of kilometers to study the Bible with him. When asked what prompted them to do so, the minister replied: “Dreams! Christ had appeared to them in their sleep and instructed them to come here to hear the truth.” And in Colorado, Pastor George Naeem who conducts classes in Arabic via the radio and the Internet reports that “Virtually all [his students] came following dreams.”
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/perilous-path-muslim-christian-189544

 

[wintersrain]

You are correct. People should tread carefully when they do not fully understand how God works. Right off the bat, the thread became a vehicle for personal attacks which is not how it should be. And as we see in the OP, the minute there are revivals, there are serious attacks from the Enemy. That is to be expected.

Agreed. I think that it inspired , thank GOD, but a few people to go on the attack is a blessing first off. As it is also and secondly, sustaining the narrative in the OP with regards to Revival. (IMO of course).

Could be too that there is a lack of understanding of what Revival is. There's a lack of understanding as to what it means to be reborn in Christ and as exampled by those minor number who launched the attack. Perhaps it goes even deeper in that the crux of the attack is lack of understanding as to what Revival entails and affords the Saint(s).

I think there are far too many who launch a knee-jerk reaction due to their lack of knowledge about any given topic. And I have come to think that's because instead of realizing there may be something they don't know as pertains to the fields of Apologetics, Hermeneutics, Soteriology, and so forth, they instead believe someone's informed threads or posts are to be taken personally as relaying the message, "you're" not really saved! "you're" not realy a Christian.

Maybe some aren't. Maybe they're here posing, are well practiced at it, until they encounter someone who is well studied. I don't know. I think the drama would be lessened if thin skins for whatever reason would take a deep breath and toughen up. Education is a blessing. Not an accusation.

 

[wintersrain]

Are you aware that many Muslims have testified to meeting Christ personally in dreams and visions and being converted?

Why Muslims Become Christians
Duane Miller notes that “Christ’s converts from Islam are often driven away from Islam as much as they are drawn to Christ or Christianity.” Focusing here only on the factors that propel Muslims specifically toward Christianity finds the list to be long.
Dreams and visions, especially of Jesus, probably draw about a quarter of MBBs. Mike Ansari, an Iranian convert, reports that many people “are actually having dreams and visions about a shining man dressed in white far before we are out there telling them about Jesus.” Dabrina Bet Tamraz notes that Iranian converts often ask each other, “Have you seen the white[-robed] man, have you seen Jesus?” The leader of a Presbyterian church in Pakistan found that Afghan imams were traveling hundreds of kilometers to study the Bible with him. When asked what prompted them to do so, the minister replied: “Dreams! Christ had appeared to them in their sleep and instructed them to come here to hear the truth.” And in Colorado, Pastor George Naeem who conducts classes in Arabic via the radio and the Internet reports that “Virtually all [his students] came following dreams.”
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/perilous-path-muslim-christian-189544

Beautiful!

 

[Rhomphaeam]

You make a very good point. A move of God which the effects is known as "revival" is clearly seen in the word of God in both the Old and New Testament. God heard the cry of HIS People. 1chron 7:14 HIS people called by HIS name.

to look at a move of God and ask :


The question we may need to ask ourselves however is, how that way of looking at recovery is either helpful or else entirely accurate if we believe that revival is a panacea for the saints and society.

This presupposition doesn't address the cause or the effects of " Revival". why?

It's not a presupposition it is a predicated certainty as to the detail of its meaning in all three revivals that I mentioned. That effect which follower revival in Wales and In Lewis and in China was and remains the influence and the activity of believers. Not unbelievers and its detail is truly appalling. I know what I have implied and I have done so for a very express reason. I intend to post details of what I mean and demonstrate what I am saying from authenticated sources. NOT to take some perverse pleasure in them but because of what I said in post @#48. You are not directing this man - the Lord is.

 

[wintersrain]

No it wasn't attacked - it was answered and that isn't all he said. Try being honest in your posts (full) not so fragmented because that gives the impression that you are being divisive. Why have you driven your position on requiring an answer to two questions and then showing that you were already the recipient of the first answer several weeks ago in the link you posted @#476 - which at that time @#478 you made reference to me as a former devil worshiper because you assumed that I don't believe in the baptism and the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Stop being so divisive.

My security measures on my PC won't let me avail myself of the "like" function unless or until someone else installs a like. So I have to go this route instead. AMEN!

 

[Rhomphaeam]

Are you aware that many Muslims have testified to meeting Christ personally in dreams and visions and being converted?

Why Muslims Become Christians
Duane Miller notes that “Christ’s converts from Islam are often driven away from Islam as much as they are drawn to Christ or Christianity.” Focusing here only on the factors that propel Muslims specifically toward Christianity finds the list to be long.
Dreams and visions, especially of Jesus, probably draw about a quarter of MBBs. Mike Ansari, an Iranian convert, reports that many people “are actually having dreams and visions about a shining man dressed in white far before we are out there telling them about Jesus.” Dabrina Bet Tamraz notes that Iranian converts often ask each other, “Have you seen the white[-robed] man, have you seen Jesus?” The leader of a Presbyterian church in Pakistan found that Afghan imams were traveling hundreds of kilometers to study the Bible with him. When asked what prompted them to do so, the minister replied: “Dreams! Christ had appeared to them in their sleep and instructed them to come here to hear the truth.” And in Colorado, Pastor George Naeem who conducts classes in Arabic via the radio and the Internet reports that “Virtually all [his students] came following dreams.”
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/perilous-path-muslim-christian-189544

I very nearly cited that miracle that is taking place in Islam myself. But believe me brother if I had said it - I would be having to go into Islamic Jurisprudence in Arabic by now just to explain Islamic eschatology and who the Islamic Jesus is - and why though a mistaken claim due to Qur'anic falsehoods - has nevertheless given many Muslims the means to come to believers in Islamic majority countries and beg them to tell them whom the man was who they saw in their dreams. And thus have they received true Christ. Amen.

 

[wintersrain]

I very nearly cited that miracle that is taking place in Islam myself. But believe me brother if I had said it - I would be having to go into Islamic Jurisprudence in Arabic by now just to explain Islamic eschatology and who the Islamic Jesus is - and why though a mistaken claim due to Qur'anic falsehoods - has nevertheless given many Muslims the means to come to believers in Islamic majority countries and beg them to tell them whom the man was who they saw in their dreams. And thus have they received true Christ. Amen.

Romans 8:30 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

God is far more than what people think. Love that verse because it refutes the teaching that claims a Christian can choose to lose their Salvation.

 

[CS1]

It's not a presupposition it is a predicated certainty as to the detail of its meaning in all three revivals that I mentioned. That effect which follower revival in Wales and In Lewis and in China was and remains the influence and the activity of believers. Not unbelievers and its detail is truly appalling. I know what I have implied and I have done so for a very express reason. I intend to post details of what I mean and demonstrate what I am saying from authenticated sources. NOT to take some perverse pleasure in them but because of what I said in post @#48. You are not directing this man - the Lord is.

LOL right.

 

[CS1]

Romans 8:30 For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. 31What then shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?

God is far more than what people think. Love that verse because it refutes the teaching that claims a Christian can choose to lose their Salvation.

hmm, you used the word of God to make that point ....

 

[wintersrain]

KJV Dictionary: REVIVAL
KJV Dictionary Definition: revival
revival

REVI'VAL, n. from revive.

1. Return, recall or recovery to life from death or apparent death; as the revival of a drowned person.

2. Return or recall to activity from a state of languor; as the revival of spirits.

3. Recall, return or recovery from a state of neglect, oblivion, obscurity or depression; as the revival of letters or learning.

4. Renewed and more active attention to religion; an awakening of men to their spiritual concerns.

(More reading at the link provided above)

 

[wintersrain]

1 John 4

KJV Dictionary: REVIVAL
KJV Dictionary Definition: revival
revival

REVI'VAL, n. from revive.

1. Return, recall or recovery to life from death or apparent death; as the revival of a drowned person.

2. Return or recall to activity from a state of languor; as the revival of spirits.

3. Recall, return or recovery from a state of neglect, oblivion, obscurity or depression; as the revival of letters or learning.

4. Renewed and more active attention to religion; an awakening of men to their spiritual concerns.

(More reading at the link provided above)

Bible Hub:https://biblehub.com/topical/d/divisive.htm

KJV Dictionary: Discord

DISCORD, n. L.

1. Disagreement among persons or things. Between persons, difference of opinions; variance; opposition; contention; strife; any disagreement which produces angry passions, contest, disputes, litigation or war. Discord may exist between families, parties and nations.

2. Disagreement; want of order; a clashing.

All discord, harmony not understood.

3. In music, disagreement of sounds; dissonance; a union of sounds which is inharmonious, grating and disagreeable to the ear; or an interval whose extremes do not coalesce. Thus the second and the seventh, when sounded together, make a discord. The term discord is applied to each of the two sounds which form the dissonance, and to the interval; but more properly to the mixed sound of dissonant tones. It is opposed to concord and harmony.

DISCORD, v.i. To disagree; to jar; to clash; not to suit; not to be coincident. Not in use.
discordance

DISCORDANCE, DISCORDANCY, n. L. Disagreement; opposition; inconsistency; as a discordance of opinions, or of sounds.
discordancy

DISCORDANCE, DISCORDANCY, n. L. Disagreement; opposition; inconsistency; as a discordance of opinions, or of sounds.
discordant

DISCORDANT, a. L.

1. Disagreeing; incongruous; contradictory; being at variance; as discordant opinions; discordant rules or principles.

2. Opposite; contrarious; not coincident; as the discordant attractions of comets, or of different planets.

3. Dissonant; not in unison; not harmonious; not accordant harsh; jarring; as discordant notes or sounds.
discordantly

DISCORDANTLY, adv. Dissonantly; in a discordant manner; inconsistently; in a manner to jar or clash; in disagreement with another, or with itself.
discordful

DISCORDFUL, a. Quarrelsome; contentious.


KJV Dictionary Definition: divisibility


DIVISIBILITY, n. L. See Divide. The quality of being divisible; the property of bodies by which their parts or component particles are capable of separation.
divisible

DIVISIBLE, a. S as z. L. See Divide. Capable of division; that may be separated or disunited; separable. Matter is divisible indefinitely.
divisibleness

DIVISIBLENESS, n. Divisibility; capacity of being separated.
division

DIVISION, n. S as z. L. See Divide.

1. The act of dividing or separating into parts, any entire body.

2. The state of being divided.

3. That which divides or separates; that which keeps apart; partition.

4. The part separated from the rest by a partition or line, real or imaginary; as the divisions of a field.

5. A separate body of men; as, communities and divisions of men.

6. A part or distinct portion; as the divisions of a discourse.

7. A part of an army or militia; a body consisting of a certain number of brigades usually two, and commanded by a major general. But the term is often applied to other bodies or portions of an army, as to a brigade, a squadron or a platoon.

8. A part of a fleet, or a select number of ships under a commander, and distinguished by a particular flag or pendant.

9. Disunion; discord; variance; difference.

There was a division among the people. John 7.

10. Space between the notes of music, or the dividing of the tones.

11. Distinction.

I will put a division between my people and thy people. Exodus 8.

12. The separation of voters in a legislative house.

13. In arithmetic, the dividing of a number or quantity into any parts assigned; or the rule by which is found how many times one number is contained in another.
divisive

DIVISIVE, a.

1. Forming division or distribution.

2. Creating division or discord.