Is it better if some people were never born?

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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#1
#1
Jesus has said the following:

"Jesus replied, “22They were deeply grieved and began to ask Him one after another, “Surely not I, Lord?” 23 Jesus answered, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with Me will betray Me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed. It would be better for him if he had not been born.” - Matthew 26:22-24

What are your thoughts on this? Jesus here is most likely referring to Judas. Do you think Jesus would expand this statement to anyone who betrays Him/God, and by extension, any person who rejects Him (a non-believer)?

My views on hell are still undecided,* however I believe it is better for those headed to eternal hell to never have been born. Is this a Biblical view?

*I have said my views on hell in another thread, that for nonbelievers (there is a wide range) I believe they may be judged based on the amount of knowledge they have.

Also, how would we reconcile a statement that it is better that some people were never born, to every life is precious (e.g., God knitted us in the womb)?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#2
Jul 3, 2015
60,160
29,464
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#2
I want to say something about certain states of mind enabling one to see things with clarity, pitting one's sense of self and worth against all the bad things a person has done, every wrong act ever committed, anything said, left unsaid, lied about, or done that hurt others, whether knowingly or unwittingly. I want to say that in this life when in such a state, people are brought to their knees, they are truly humbled, they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are no better than anyone else, and have no ground upon which to stand to boast in themselves; they may cry out to God for mercy; some commit suicide. I think as Christians we have all been in that state, the one that allows us to see ourselves as sinners unworthy of the forgiveness and unconditional love that God so freely bestows on us. Perhaps for some it is more profoundly searing than others, depending on how they have lived their life, how far they ventured in their rebellion, how long they remained defiant. For the unrepentant, when they stand before God in judgment at the end of this age, and there is no escape, no respite, no uncertainty as to their fate, the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the unobstructed truth of how deserving they are of God's wrath. Well, I want to say something about it... but words fail me beyond this point.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#3
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#3
In this passage, Christ is speaking specifically of Judas. It wasn’t just that he betrayed him, but in the manner he did so. Money. For Judas, it definitely would have been better not to have been born. Does God create humans that He knows He will send to hell? Yes.
 
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TheLearner

Well-known member
#4
Jan 14, 2019
8,193
1,577
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68
Brighton, MI
#4
I wish it was true that those who don't come to Jesus would be better off if they were never born.

How many Christians of non-believing parents would also never be born?
 
Gardenias

Gardenias

Well-known member
#5
Oct 27, 2020
2,281
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#5
In my finite mind,there are those, if I could I would wish they had NEVER BEEN BORN!


Series killers, pedophiles, domestic abusers, ECT, people that DELIBERATELY set out to hurt the weaker among us.

Hell would be less full and the world would be more peaceful.

Alas,it is not mine to wish!
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#6
#6
God knowing the end from the beginning knows every thought word and deed that would ever be spoken and done.
Never trespassing on mans free will he orchestratedy out of hate, sin, and violence a beautiful Symphony with love, kindness and forgiveness .
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#7
Sep 2, 2020
14,145
5,722
113
#7
TheIndianGirl said:
Jesus has said the following:

"Jesus replied, “22They were deeply grieved and began to ask Him one after another, “Surely not I, Lord?” 23 Jesus answered, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with Me will betray Me. 24The Son of Man will go just as it is written about Him, but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed. It would be better for him if he had not been born.” - Matthew 26:22-24

What are your thoughts on this? Jesus here is most likely referring to Judas. Do you think Jesus would expand this statement to anyone who betrays Him/God, and by extension, any person who rejects Him (a non-believer)?

My views on hell are still undecided,* however I believe it is better for those headed to eternal hell to never have been born. Is this a Biblical view?

*I have said my views on hell in another thread, that for nonbelievers (there is a wide range) I believe they may be judged based on the amount of knowledge they have.

Also, how would we reconcile a statement that it is better that some people were never born, to every life is precious (e.g., God knitted us in the womb)?
Click to expand...
well think of people like adolf hitler it seems he was more of an agent of evil d destruction of the precious lives to God. I’m thinking it would have been better for him where his soul is now to never have been born at all .

I’m not sure the Bible speaks to non believers as much as it does to believers about non believers

those who serve the devil and his Will are enemies to God they have made themselves his enemy even as his word declares thier destruction clearly .
 
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TheIndianGirl

Guest
#8
#8
Aerials1978 said:
In this passage, Christ is speaking specifically of Judas. It wasn’t just that he betrayed him, but in the manner he did so. Money. For Judas, it definitely would have been better not to have been born. Does God create humans that He knows He will send to hell? Yes.
Click to expand...
I wonder if this could also be a general message, even though the statement is directed at Judas. Especially, since Judas and others going to hell are bound for the same hell, it could mean it might be better if others were not born either. Jesus also said a few times, woe to this person and woe to that person, so that makes me wonder.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#9
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#9
TheIndianGirl said:
I wonder if this could also be a general message, even though the statement is directed at Judas. Especially, since Judas and others going to hell are bound for the same hell, it could mean it might be better if others were not born either. Jesus also said a few times, woe to this person and woe to that person, so that makes me wonder.
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It probably depends on the circumstances in which the word “Woe” is being used. It could indicate distress, judgment, sorrowfulness, etc. With Judas the context would be grief. Judas was so distraught with what he had done, he committed suicide. If you use the koine Greek lexicon, it would give the proper adjective of the translation.
 
Bingo

Bingo

Well-known member
#10
Feb 9, 2019
9,219
4,755
113
#10
Magenta said:
I want to say something about certain states of mind enabling one to see things with clarity, pitting one's sense of self and worth against all the bad things a person has done, every wrong act ever committed, anything said, left unsaid, lied about, or done that hurt others, whether knowingly or unwittingly. I want to say that in this life when in such a state, people are brought to their knees, they are truly humbled, they know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are no better than anyone else, and have no ground upon which to stand to boast in themselves; they may cry out to God for mercy; some commit suicide. I think as Christians we have all been in that state, the one that allows us to see ourselves as sinners unworthy of the forgiveness and unconditional love that God so freely bestows on us. Perhaps for some it is more profoundly searing than others, depending on how they have lived their life, how far they ventured in their rebellion, how long they remained defiant. For the unrepentant, when they stand before God in judgment at the end of this age, and there is no escape, no respite, no uncertainty as to their fate, the wailing and gnashing of teeth, the unobstructed truth of how deserving they are of God's wrath. Well, I want to say something about it... but words fail me beyond this point.
Click to expand...
"Stand firm, you appear to be in the process of spiritual growth."...........:)
 
T

TheLearner

Well-known member
#11
Jan 14, 2019
8,193
1,577
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68
Brighton, MI
#11
I wish it was true that those who don't come to Jesus would be better off if they were never born.

How many Christians of non-believing parents would also never be born?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#12
Jul 3, 2015
60,160
29,464
113
#12
Paul said it was a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Some translations use a different word than fearful, such as: dreadful; terrifying; terrible; awful. We know Paul is speaking from experience. I wonder how many have experienced this? There is no doubt in my mind that this is how those who have denied and defied God all their lives will feel when they stand before God at the end of this age to meet their fate. I wonder, though, if we can truly imagine the depths of horror these who denied God all their lives are going to experience when facing Him, knowing how wrong they were, and knowing their fate as a result of their unrelenting hard heartedness towards Him. Some say, well, it is only death; death is not punishment; death is nothing to fear; and/or they are getting what they want. I say such an attitude is untenable, since fear of death is given as the reason for man's bondage to sin, and nobody in their right mind wants to die. The other side of the coin of saying, "It is only death," has to be, "It is only life." Only life! It is only life they are giving up after all, and what a careless, cursory thing to say about the great gift God has granted us in giving us life in the first place. God sees life as so precious He gave His only begotten Son to suffer and die in our stead, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
 
Blik

Blik

Senior Member
#13
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#13
God uses every life for the good of those who love him. The old testament is filled with people who did not know God yet God used them for the good of His people.

Even Hitler was used to inspire the return of the Jews to Jerusalem as was prophesied.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#14
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#14
Magenta said:
Paul said it was a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Some translations use a different word than fearful, such as: dreadful; terrifying; terrible; awful. We know Paul is speaking from experience. I wonder how many have experienced this? There is no doubt in my mind that this is how those who have denied and defied God all their lives will feel when they stand before God at the end of this age to meet their fate. I wonder, though, if we can truly imagine the depths of horror these who denied God all their lives are going to experience when facing Him, knowing how wrong they were, and knowing their fate as a result of their unrelenting hard heartedness towards Him. Some say, well, it is only death; death is not punishment; death is nothing to fear; and/or they are getting what they want. I say such an attitude is untenable, since fear of death is given as the reason for man's bondage to sin, and nobody in their right mind wants to die. The other side of the coin of saying, "It is only death," has to be, "It is only life." Only life! It is only life they are giving up after all, and what a careless, cursory thing to say about the great gift God has granted us in giving us life in the first place. God sees life as so precious He gave His only begotten Son to suffer and die in our stead, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Click to expand...

Read the above post.

Now, will anyone here deny a woman cannot teach and preach?
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#15
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#15
Is it better if some people were never born?


Depends on what they decide to do about Jesus.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

Well-known member
#16
Dec 15, 2018
23,460
7,188
113
#16
well, those that betray Jesus wont be born...again.
so yea. I dont know if the past tense applies here in translation but it is true that unbelievers wont be born again.

Judas betrayed Jesus, he was one of the twelve disicples who was chosen and was supposed to be his friend. He could have had eternal life but threw it all away.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#17
Dec 10, 2019
1,707
987
113
#17
JaumeJ said:
Read the above post.

Now, will anyone here deny a woman cannot teach and preach?
Click to expand...
Women are not allowed to hold authority in pastoral positions nor teach the congregation. Magenta has always posted truth filled comments and I have much respect for her.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#18
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#18
Someone should have told Deborah. Come the Kingdom many will be surprised who is there, and how they came to such rewards.
 
A-Sword-Cometh

A-Sword-Cometh

Banned
#19
Jan 12, 2022
798
178
43
#19
Cursed be the day I was born, let not the day my mother bare me be blessed. Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, a son is born unto thee; making him very glad and let that man be as the cities which the Lord overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noon; because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me. Why came I forth out of the womb to see toil and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?
 
Carry_Your_Name

Carry_Your_Name

Banned
#20
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
#20
Aerials1978 said:
In this passage, Christ is speaking specifically of Judas. It wasn’t just that he betrayed him, but in the manner he did so. Money. For Judas, it definitely would have been better not to have been born. Does God create humans that He knows He will send to hell? Yes.
Click to expand...
And just a reminder, Judas was the one who pretended to be caring and thoughtful about the poor, while he was a thief whose hand was in the money box. And sadly, other disciples echoed his fake outrage at that moment.
 
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