Anybody believe that Daniel's 70TH week has been fulfilled by Jesus - and then Stephen?

[GaryA]

Did you read post #130? Did it make sense to you?

The reason I ask you this is so that I might perhaps know how to proceed...

In the last verse there's only one Messiah the Prince, why should it be separated into two persons? And then go back to the Messiah in the next verse?

If I understand correctly what you are saying here, then I would suggest that it is part of the 'evidence' that the word 'prince' in verse 26 is not referring to [the] Messiah.

If it were, would it not say 'Messiah'/'He'/etc?

After having identified 'Messiah' specifically, there would be no reason to use a [more] vague statement like 'the prince that shall come' if it were referring to [the] Messiah.

 

[TMS]

futurism invented the need to divide the 70 week prophesy and place part in the future.
Futurism is an evil doctrine

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

If I understand correctly what you are saying here, then I would suggest that it is part of the 'evidence' that the word 'prince' in verse 26 is not referring to [the] Messiah.

If it were, would it not say 'Messiah'/'He'/etc?

After having identified 'Messiah' specifically, there would be no reason to use a [more] vague statement like 'the prince that shall come' if it were referring to [the] Messiah.

This goes much deeper. I think I mentioned this somewhere before that Jesus is BOTH the Messiah and the Prince. As the Messiah he died for the sins of mankind, but as the prince He poured out His wrath upon the evil and corrupt Pharisees in Jerusalem. If you insist that the "prince" was general Titus, that's fine. Either way he and his army were sent by God, and all 70 weeks were fulfilled by Jesus.

The 70th week is explained in this video, start from 22 min. This pastor delivered it perfectly.

 

[GaryA]

[I do not believe that's how "prophecies" work]

What if it is merely a warning that utilizes Jewish knowledge about the past to help them identify what is happening "at the moment" and not a prophetic statement about a futuristic AoD?

Don't forget that there was no way possible for them to identify with the AoD event 3 years before it happened...

 

[BroTan]

Let's take a look at Daniel 9: (Verse 26). "And after threescore and two weeks shall the Messiah be cut off, but for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

Look closely at what we read in Daniel 9:26. First, it said the Messiah shall be cut off and then the people of the prince shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary. Who is the prince? Satan the Devil, Paul called him the prince of the power of the air. Lets go into Ephesians 2:2 "wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience."

Let take a look at this time when this event happen. Let's go into Luke 19: 41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 and shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

But go further and read more of this event in Luke 21: 20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. 21 Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people. 24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

So this is the time when Titus sack Jerusalem in about 70 A.D. and the southern tribes of Israel went into captivity under the Gentiles, even unto this day. Daniel prophesy this as we read.

 

[GaryA]

Because my understanding of “abomination of desolation” is still a physical event in the material world, which is the modification of human genome.

The [real actual] AoD is a historically "matched" event described in Daniel 11:31. Antiochus Epiphanes "polluted" the sanctuary, etc. in 167 B.C.

It is past history, and need not happen again to fulfil the prophecy.

 

[GaryA]

How did Jesus cause sacrifice and oblation to cease in the midst of the 70th week?

Mark 15:

38 And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

 

[GaryA]

I agree with you on 9:27, but I believe 11:31 is about Antiochus and 12:11 is definitely set in future.

11:31 is about Antiochus

12:11 is a reference to 11:31

Why do think it is future [to us]?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The [real actual] AoD is a historically "matched" event described in Daniel 11:31. Antiochus Epiphanes "polluted" the sanctuary, etc. in 167 B.C.

It is past history, and need not happen again to fulfil the prophecy.

And yet there's still a future one in Dan. 12, is it not? Honestly I'm really not sure which AoD was Jesus specifically referring to in the Olivet Discourse. In Matthew and Mark, a future event may apply, but on Luke's account, it can't be anything else but the sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD.

 

[GaryA]

For someone to say that the AoD isn't a future event is........nonsensical and absurd.

For someone to say anything to the contrary is an indication that they don't really understand the prophecy.

 

[GaryA]

In Matthew and Mark, a future event may apply, but on Luke's account, it can't be anything else but the sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD.

three accounts of the same thing

They are all talking about the same thing.

They are all [effectively] saying the same thing.

 

[GaryA]

And yet there's still a future one in Dan. 12, is it not?

Why do you think this?

 

[GaryA]

Honestly I'm really not sure which AoD was Jesus specifically referring to in the Olivet Discourse.

He was referring to the one-and-only real actual AoD. (Daniel 11:31)

 

[Beckie]

And yet there's still a future one in Dan. 12, is it not? Honestly I'm really not sure which AoD was Jesus specifically referring to in the Olivet Discourse. In Matthew and Mark, a future event may apply, but on Luke's account, it can't be anything else but the sacking of Jerusalem in 70AD.

Seems to me simply believing what Jesus had to say tells us the timing...Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why do you think this?

Because it's defined in Dan. 12:1 - "Michael shall stand up", and "There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation." When Michael stands up, that's when he defeats Satan and casts him out of heaven, then Satan is given 3.5 years to cause the Great Tribulation that the world has never seen. It doesn't make any sense if you throw all of that into the past.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Seems to me simply believing what Jesus had to say tells us the timing...Mat 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Then define GENERATION! In that context of the fig tree parable, the sign He gave is the budding of the fig tree; but in that current generation, what happened was the exact opposite - the fig tree withered away as He cursed it. It's not that simple as you think. Dispensationalists interpret that "budding" as the founding of modern day Israel, while I believe is that "generation" is the last generation in Matt. 1, which is the Church being the generation of Christ. So, this sign of revival may be the Missianic Movement among the Jews, they finally acknowledge that Yeshua is the Messiah.

 

[GaryA]

Because it's defined in Dan. 12:1 - "Michael shall stand up", and "There shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation." When Michael stands up, that's when he defeats Satan and casts him out of heaven, then Satan is given 3.5 years to cause the Great Tribulation that the world has never seen. It doesn't make any sense if you throw all of that into the past.

Why do you think 12:1 "defines" the time of 12:11 when 12:11 refers back to 11:31?

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Why do you think 12:1 "defines" the time of 12:11 when 12:11 refers back to 11:31?

Because in 11:36-39 this man exalts himself above every deity on earth, honoring a "god of fortress" which his forefathers did not know. That can't Antiochus, since Zeus was a Greek deity that his forefathers knew. That can't be anybody else but the Antichrist. Paul made reference of him in his letter to the Thesselonica church.

 

[iamsoandso]

There's no first half and second half. 12:1 begins with "At that time”, that's still the same "time of trouble". You know in the original script there was no such divisions of chapters. The difference is that 11:36-45 is describing the Antichrist, while chapter 12 is about God's grace and protection of His people during this time.

Also, although Jesus said that "No one knows the day or the hour", it's not hard to figure out that His return is set on a Day of Atonement in a sabbatical year right before a jubilee. 75 days after that is Hanukkah, which is the re-dedication of the Temple, and then you got 1260+75=1335 days. About the 1290 days, though, I'm still not sure what the extra month is about.



Theologically speaking, His death paid the PENALTY of sin and brought forth a spiritual garment of RIGHTEOUSNESS that is washed white with His blood. That's corroborated by the description of the tribulation saints, his rebuke of the lukewarm Laodicea church about their spiritual nakedness, and the wedding feast parable. Without His everlasting righteousness, none of these could be possible.

The grain offering. If they were told to come and the grain wasn't ripe or it was over ripe they could not offer it,,,"first fruit,,,no spot nor blemish"... so a month was added or removed(priest looked a the grain and determined to add or remove an month) to tell the people when to come the next year(beforehand). This is the first site I found about it if you choose another it's fine with me just replying to "... what the extra month is about"... https://www.alionhasroared.org/index.php/feast-days/the-biblical-calendar/

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

The grain offering. If they were told to come and the grain wasn't ripe or it was over ripe they could not offer it,,,"first fruit,,,no spot nor blemish"... so a month was added or removed(priest looked a the grain and determined to add or remove an month) to tell the people when to come the next year(beforehand). This is the first site I found about it if you choose another it's fine with me just replying to "... what the extra month is about"... https://www.alionhasroared.org/index.php/feast-days/the-biblical-calendar/

Thanks, that would explain the extra month. However, we're talking about the fall feasts in Tishri, the harvest season for olives and grapes, not first fruit for barley, so does this still apply?