An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
και ετεκεν υιον αρρενα ος μελλει ποιμαινειν παντα τα εθνη εν ραβδω σιδηρα και ηρπασθη το τεκνον αυτης προς τον θεον και τον θρονον αυτου Revelation 12:5 Textus Receptus

και ηκουσα φωνην μεγαλην λεγουσαν εν τω ουρανω αρτι εγενετο η σωτηρια και η δυναμις και η βασιλεια του θεου ημων και η εξουσια του χριστου αυτου οτι κατεβληθη ο κατηγορος των αδελφων ημων ο κατηγορων αυτων ενωπιον του θεου ημων ημερας και νυκτος Revelation 12:10 Textus Receptus

Both of these Gk texts present the same conjugation to the object verb of either ἁρπάζω - harpazo (lexical root) manuscript ηρπασθη caught up (Revelation 12:5) - and βάλλω (lexical root) manuscript κατεβληθη cast down (Revelation 12:10).

Both verb forms are expressing an action of force or suddenness.

Revelation 12:4 is the man child and Revelation 12:10 is the Dragon.

It seems entirely reasonable that Satan should be cast down suddenly - seeing that at this point he is a defeated foe taken by force of Michael and his angels. Whereas to speak of Christ being caught up with sudden force may be suspect. The only reasonable test may be to read the account of the Lord’s ascension into heaven from the Gk manuscript.

και ταυτα ειπων βλεποντων αυτων επηρθη και νεφελη υπελαβεν αυτον απο των οφθαλμων αυτων. Acts 1:9 Textus Receptus

ὑψόω - hupsoo (lexical root) manuscript επηρθη lifted up. (Acts 1:9)
Thank You Brother for the understanding/breakdown of the Greek text.

Rev 12 is symbolic therefore it is not a mirror image of what actually took place in Acts 1 .

Revelation does not deviate from the Gospels, the Prophets and the Apostles.

When reading Revelation we need to always refer back to what was previously spoken by the Holy Spirit.
 
Dec 4, 2021
67
15
8
I will answer your words to myself.

When you tell me what to do and how to do it and why I should do it - you are not bearing a bland witness of your calling - you are telling me what to do. As to persecution - what do you know of it? You are lamentable in your manner because you imagine yourself to being persecuted. Yield to your husband - thank fully I am not that man. If I were.......:oops:
I don’t see God’s Love in you....It’s sad and grievous to Gods spirit...Saul had to be knocked off his horse he was accused by Jesus of persecution....Because he was attacking and killing Christians....God loves me and someday you will see just how much.....and if the love of God was in you....you would love me...😪
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Apparently, it seems MY ideas of Truth, are only in opposition to YOUR teachings/doctrines.

Let me ask you. Are my ideas so opposed to the Scriptures that it will affect my salvation?
#1.) Did I ever imply or suggest you are not saved? - No
#2.) You clearly stated your idea/synopsis - Yes
#3.) I did not state any idea of my own other then to show you 2 Timothy 2:14-19 clearly states no Saints will be left behind.
#4.) Did I not say I appreciate your time, synopsis and YOU - YES
#5.) I did state that there is an Order set by the LORD in 1 Thess 4:13-18, 2 Thess 2:1-3, Heb ch9, 1 John ch2-ch3 and 1 Cor ch15
#6.) We, myself and everyone, must seek to adhere to what is written without adding or taking away = Proverbs 30:5-6
#7.) When we adjust our thinking to the Word we come alive and are sanctified continually in Truth = Thy Word is Truth = John ch17

You belong to Christ and we are family and that will never change but only get better.
 
Dec 4, 2021
67
15
8
I believe SHE BELIEVES in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I have not read all the posts as I am still replying to those who have replied to me so I am coming from what she has written to me and a quick lookover of some others and from what I saw it seemed she speaks to the remnant, the foreknown and justified. Many are called (she isn't speaking of/to them) but few are chosen (she is speaking to/of them). "before you were born I knew you..."

Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


That is what I have seen. I will have to get back with you when I have time to go back and look at the discussions between the both of you. But from my point of view at the time, yes, it came off as harsh. I will get back with you.
Thank you for your Love my Brethren....God Bless You prosper you and show you all things!!!
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
Thank You Brother for the understanding/breakdown of the Greek text.

Rev 12 is symbolic therefore it is not a mirror image of what actually took place in Acts 1 .

Revelation does not deviate from the Gospels, the Prophets and the Apostles.

When reading Revelation we need to always refer back to what was previously spoken by the Holy Spirit.
I have no wish to be anyones teacher. So I always express myself in terms that are either scribal in character - to express a meaning - else phonological - in a prophetic voice. Just as the Lord set me into His body. But you utilise the precept of prophecy as an expression of the written word in compliance to its prophetic intent. How many in truth are able to discern prophetic intent are likely to be few. So your means is always going to be predicated on teaching. I have no desire to teach anyone at all. Yet I do write to incite a clear prophetic meaning that can easily be missed in teaching.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
So then, maybe we should ask… if these foolish virgins, this great multitude, doesn’t receive the same reward as the bride of Christ… what do they get? From Revelation 7:15-17 “…and He who sits on the throne shall spread His tabernacle over them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them to springs of the waters of life; and God shall wipe every tear from their eyes.” Doesn’t sound like such a bad deal to me
What a fascinating analysis, I really appreciate your time and thought for this writeup; but I have to say, this conclusion is not quite accurate. If you read the THREE parables in Matt. 25 (sheep and goats judgement counted as one parable), you'll notice that there're not just two groups, but THREE. In all three parables there are THREE groups. In the parable of talents, you have the first servant who received ten talents and doubled it; in the sheep and goats judgement, you have the "brethrens" who are taken care of by the ”sheep“;

Then in the first parable of the Ten Virgins, although it seems like there're just 5 wise virgins and 5 foolish virgins, but obviously there must be a bride as well. She's not walking down the aisle led by her father towards the groom at the alter, while holding a bouquet in her hand with something borrowed something blue and a sixpence in her shoe. In that culture, she's ALREADY at the chuppah waiting for the groom to pick her up. That's the local custom till this day. That much is revealed in Rev. 17:7-8. All of the disciples were very familiar with that - they'd personally attended a wedding at Cana, right? So there's no need to specifically mention the bride in this parable.

Now back to these ten virgins, or maybe we should say, maidens; they're not the host, not the wedding planner, not the cake baker, not the photographer, not the waiter, probably not even bridemaids. They are not burdened with any of those responsibilities. Their ONLY job is to lead the groom to the bride at night. The five wise ones come prepared with oil, the five foolish ones aren't prepared. There has been all kinds of doctrines and interpretations built around this one simple parable, but most of them agree on one thing, that the primary takeaway from this parable is being born again in SPIRIT. OIL is the Holy Spirit, it can't be shared or traded, each individual Christian must gain their own oil and develop a personal relationship with Lord Jesus. If you don't have it, then you'd be shut out of the door, because "Most assuredly I say to you, I DON'T KNOW YOU!" says the Lord.

So the conclusion is very simple - the identity of the Bride is determined, she's chosen by the Groom's father and purchased with a price, that's a constant; the only variable is the guests who arrive at the marriage supper of the Lamb, they're explicitly mentioned in Rev. 14:6 and 19:9. In this parable, those are the five wise virgin and ONLY the five wise virgins, the five foolish ones have MISSED it. Put it in the context of the end times, the five wise virgins are those who have endured to the end (Matt. 24:13), while the five foolish ones are those who're falling away (2 Thess. 2:3). And we should be satisfied for being invited as a guest, because that's the greatest honor and privelege we could ever have imagined, we as the children of God will receive our reward of eternal life nonetheless.
 

Rhomphaeam

Active member
Dec 14, 2021
832
218
43
England
www.nblc.church
I don’t see God’s Love in you....It’s sad and grievous to Gods spirit...Saul had to be knocked off his horse he was accused by Jesus of persecution....Because he was attacking and killing Christians....God loves me and someday you will see just how much.....and if the love of God was in you....you would love me...😪
You don't see me at all, sister. And neither will you see me. Why worry about my love for you - which you say is lacking? Unless you have a desire to walk on the edge of a ravine then it isn't likely I will have an opportunity show you any love outside of a childish expression on a forum. The Lord knocked you off a chair. He will have to cast me off the ravine. before I yield to your requirement. Shalom, sister.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
That’s how I see it from Rev 12 as the woman (all Gods people) is protected for the 31/2 year tribulation period and during this time the man child, (the remnant of the woman’s seed) is caught up to the throne being the 1st Resurrection this takes place as the woman is still on earth
That woman is Israel, the REAL bride. She's got quite a WHorible reputation by turning tricks with all the johns in town while her husband is away, even by Jesus's principle of marriage she ought to be kicked out for her fornification, and yet God still loves her as the apple of His eye, in the end she'll still be protected and redeemed.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
Apparently, it seems MY ideas of Truth, are only in opposition to YOUR teachings/doctrines.

Let me ask you. Are my ideas so opposed to the Scriptures that it will affect my salvation?
Just a reminder:
Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints and then come back for them after the Resurrection?
I have a open heart, mind and spiritual ears to listen.
 
Jan 14, 2021
1,599
526
113
We have a tendency to accept a secular view that equates a person’s role with their value or worth.
Your post was well written, but I do have a nitpick with this one particular line. I believe you mean to say "spiritual stratification" rather than "value or worth". A foot obviously has its value as a foot, and an ear an ear. A person's role does determine their relative value. An ear is not better than a foot (there is no stratification) but each has worth and value relative to their function in the body of Christ. This is just to say, an ear shouldn't try to be a foot because its best value is as an ear.

So this parable suggests something different from the traditional view of the church… the understanding that all Christians are members of the bride of Christ.
Another nitpick, it has been the perspective of the church that members that call themselves Christian are not necessarily in Christ (cf. 1 John 2:19). There are Christians by name and there are those in Christ, one could be both, neither, or some mix of the two.

the bride of Christ is everywhere described as seated on thrones and reigning (Revelation 3:21, 20:4),
"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." - Rev 3:21 KJV

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." - Rev 20:4 KJV

You appear to be injecting the context of your version of the Bride of Christ in Rev 3:21 and Rev 20:4.

Your interpretation that the foolish virgins eventually find salvation is interesting, but how do you address the imagery of wailing and gnashing of teeth that happens at the end of that parable (and at the end of the parable of the wedding banquet) and is usually associated with hellfire and damnation in the Lake of Fire? The foolish virgins can't be part of Christ and by the conclusion of the parable aren't destined to be saved.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
Your post was well written, but I do have a nitpick with this one particular line. I believe you mean to say "spiritual stratification" rather than "value or worth". A foot obviously has its value as a foot, and an ear an ear. A person's role does determine their relative value. An ear is not better than a foot (there is no stratification) but each has worth and value relative to their function in the body of Christ. This is just to say, an ear shouldn't try to be a foot because its best value is as an ear.



Another nitpick, it has been the perspective of the church that members that call themselves Christian are not necessarily in Christ (cf. 1 John 2:19). There are Christians by name and there are those in Christ, one could be both, neither, or some mix of the two.



"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." - Rev 3:21 KJV

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." - Rev 20:4 KJV

You appear to be injecting the context of your version of the Bride of Christ in Rev 3:21 and Rev 20:4.

Your interpretation that the foolish virgins eventually find salvation is interesting, but how do you address the imagery of wailing and gnashing of teeth that happens at the end of that parable (and at the end of the parable of the wedding banquet) and is usually associated with hellfire and damnation in the Lake of Fire? The foolish virgins can't be part of Christ and by the conclusion of the parable aren't destined to be saved.
You know, in the end after the millennial reign, the final Bride is not even a person or a group of persons, but a CITY - New Jerusalem, and the Lamb becomes the Eternal Light that has replaced the sun, moon and stars, while God's people are walking down the golden streets and enjoying the fruit from the Tree of Life like Adam. That's all in the last two chapters of Revelation. Church being the Bride of Christ sounds like a really seductive doctrine, but when it's put under scrutiny, it melts down like snow in the sunlight.
 
Dec 4, 2021
67
15
8
DavidTree said:
We are not permitted to confirm our ideas as truth if they are in opposition to the teachings/doctrines of the LORD and the Apostles and the Prophets who have the final say as to Truth.

Yes Yes so why don’t you hear me

David, how do you know for certain you have ears to hear....read this scripture Jesus teaching his disciples:

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.

13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

This is me below...I am in the truth what I speak and the scriptures are written on my heart

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
What a fascinating analysis, I really appreciate your time and thought for this writeup; but I have to say, this conclusion is not quite accurate. If you read the THREE parables in Matt. 25 (sheep and goats judgement counted as one parable), you'll notice that there're not just two groups, but THREE. In all three parables there are THREE groups. In the parable of talents, you have the first servant who received ten talents and doubled it; in the sheep and goats judgement, you have the "brethrens" who are taken care of by the ”sheep“;
I would take another look at this idea there there are three groups in sheep and goat judgement. Ultimately, all people are in one of two categories: sheep or goats. There isn't a third "Brethren" category completely distinct from the sheep and goats. The brethren are numbered among the sheep. The brethren of Christ are also the brethren of the sheep and even though Christ is God He is also our brother. That's how treating our brethren good is tantamount to treating Christ good.

Jesus our Brother:
John 20:17 KJV
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Romans 8:29 KJV
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Hebrews 2:11-12 KJV
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
 
Feb 24, 2022
1,346
288
83
I would take another look at this idea there there are three groups in sheep and goat judgement. Ultimately, all people are in one of two categories: sheep or goats. There isn't a third "Brethren" category completely distinct from the sheep and goats. The brethren are numbered among the sheep. The brethren of Christ are also the brethren of the sheep and even though Christ is God He is also our brother. That's how treating our brethren good is tantamount to treating Christ good.

Jesus our Brother:
John 20:17 KJV
17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Romans 8:29 KJV
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Hebrews 2:11-12 KJV
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
Hint: Matt. 12:49-50.
 
Dec 4, 2021
67
15
8
So of ALL the numbers in the book of Revelation, only 144,000 is symbolic, is that right?



Okay, bare with me. Lets compare the 144,000 and the Great Multitude with the wise and foolish virgins in Matthew 25. There are two groups shown in Matthew chapter 25:1-13, similar to the two groups of Christians depicted in Revelation chapter 7.

There are some very familiar symbols in the Matthew description, which makes it easier to interpret who is being described and provide a good starting place to consider these two groups of Christians. First we have ten virgins with lamps in Matthew. The use of virgins as a symbol (2 Cor. 11:2) corresponds to those who’ve dedicated their life to Jesus the bridegroom (Revelation 19:7), and the number ten signifies that these virgins represent the sum total of all of the virgins. However, the virgins are divided into two groups – wise virgins and foolish virgins.

All the virgins have lamps representing the word of God (Psalm 119:105, 2 Peter 1:19) and all of them are awakened by the announcement of the bridegroom’s presence outside the door (cf. Revelation 3:20). However, the foolish virgins have brought insufficient oil with them for their lamps. The oil is the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 6:1-3, 2 Cor. 1:21-22) and evidently the foolish virgins lack the same spirit of commitment as the wise virgins.

Matthew places this parable in the same context with signs (Matthew chapter 24) and with other parables (Matthew chapter 25) of Christ’s return. That is the sense of this parable, also, for all of the virgins are waiting for the bridegroom to return.

The foolish virgins experience difficulties when the bridegroom arrives at the house at the stroke of midnight (cf. Song of Solomon 5:2-7). Their lamps are sputtering from a lack of oil, which suggests they are having difficulty understanding everything happening at the time. They go to get more oil in the marketplace (the parallel in Revelation seven would be the great multitude going out into the great tribulation). While they are gone the bridegroom takes the wise virgins to the wedding feast and the door is closed to the foolish virgins.

Note that throughout the parable they never cease to be virgins. They are genuinely loyal to Christ, but seem to lack the same degree or spirit (oil) of zeal and commitment that the wise virgins manifest, and they are shut out from going in to the wedding. So this parable suggests something different from the traditional view of the church… the understanding that all Christians are members of the bride of Christ. In the case of the parable of the wise and foolish virgins, there are two “classes” of Christians… and not all of them are part of the bride and the wedding.

So how do we account for these foolish virgins? Is the entire explanation for the existence of this group based solely on this parable? Consider some other examples from the scriptures –

• In Psalm 45 we have also a description of a wedding feast for the king’s daughter. In verse 14 we read “she will be led to the king in embroidered work; the virgins her companions who follow her shall be brought to you.” The Psalm is rich with metaphor, and if the bride is the wise virgins of the parable in Matthew, then who do the “virgins her companions who follow her” represent if not the foolish virgins?
• In 1 Corinthians 3:14 and 15 we have an example of two individuals that build on the foundation of Jesus Christ (verse 11). One of these individuals builds with quality materials and the other builds with inferior materials. The one who builds with quality materials receives a reward. The one who builds with inferior materials has their work destroyed, but they are still saved… although through the fire of trials (1 Peter 4:12).

These passages bear a striking similarity to the parable of the wise and foolish virgins in Matthew chapter 25 and the great multitude in Revelation chapter seven – in Psalm 45 we have the bride and then her virgin companions who are not the bride. In 1 Corinthians chapter 3 we have those who are rewarded as opposed to those who seem to be barely saved from destruction (1 Cor. 3:17).

Let’s compare what we’ve just considered with Revelation chapter seven and see if we can draw similar conclusions on this subject. In Revelation chapter 7, the 144,000 are described as selected from the twelve tribes of Israel. Throughout the book of Revelation, the Israel described within its pages does not seem to represent the literal nation of Israel, but rather spiritual Israel or the church (cf. Romans 2:28-29, 9:6-8, Galatians 6:16, Philippians 3:3, 135 Colossians 2:11, Revelation 2:9). As in other places throughout Revelation, it makes much more sense to interpret the tribes in chapter seven as spiritual Israel.

As in Matthew chapter 25, there are two groups of people described in the chapter. In Revelation chapter seven they are described as the 144,000 (7:1-8) and the great multitude (7:9-17), and these two groups are readily distinguished from each other. In one instance the group has a specific number (the 144,000), and this is contrasted with the great multitude that is a group “which no man could number.” The first group is sealed before the winds of trouble are loosed (verses 1-3) and the other group experiences “great tribulation” (verse 14).

In addition we have descriptions of the bride of Christ from elsewhere that differ significantly from the description of the great multitude in chapter seven. For example the bride of Christ is everywhere described as seated on thrones and reigning (Revelation 3:21, 20:4), while in this chapter the great multitude are described as ”before the throne” yet worshipping in God’s temple (verse 15). The bride of Christ is described as those “who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy” (Revelation 3:4). In contrast the great multitude is described as those whose robes were soiled and they “have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb” (verse 14).

The book of Revelation is not the only place where we have an example of those who need to have their robes washed. In the book of Jude we have a description of those who have not been completely faithful and who needed special repentance and cleansing. The book of Jude (verses 22-23) speaks of various examples of those who are straying in some way from the love of God (verse 21). It specifically makes mention of having mercy on those whose “garment [is] polluted [or “spotted”] by the flesh.”

This idea of cleansing from the actions of the flesh is elsewhere depicted in 1 Corinthians 5:5. Here we have the description of the unrepentant man whom the church had not confronted. Paul speaks of “the destruction of his flesh that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.” Paul is dealing with a specific individual rather than discussing a representative group in this instance, and he does not judge this man’s ultimate destiny. However, the verse does convey the idea of repentance and forgiveness and cleansing from the flesh as the outcome of suffering (tribulation).

Of course, our description of the great multitude could be criticized in our so[1]called enlightened age for not being properly egalitarian. Yet the scriptures do not shy away from the concept of reward (2 John 1:8) or even differing rewards. For an example, take some to read and ponder the parable of the pounds in Luke 19:11-27.

The problem with our perception here seems to be twofold.

  1. There is a lack of humility on our part. The idea of accepting your place in the world (Luke 14:7-11) is a lost principle in our society and to a large extent in the Christian church. We tend to place ourselves at the center of our world. Christians in the past were much more inclined to see themselves as parts of a larger whole. They were more likely to see themselves as essential parts of a community that was greater than their individual importance.
  2. We have a tendency to accept a secular view that equates a person’s role with their value or worth. This is not a biblical concept. The bible makes a clear distinction between someone’s position and whether that person is valued as an important part of the community. Take some time to read and ponder another passage, this one regarding the body of Christ in 1 Cor. 12:4-26 (and on through 1 Cor. 13:7).
So then, maybe we should ask… if these foolish virgins, this great multitude, doesn’t receive the same reward as the bride of Christ… what do they get? From Revelation 7:15-17 “…and He who sits on the throne shall spread His tabernacle over them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst anymore; neither shall the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne shall be their shepherd, and shall guide them to springs of the waters of life; and God shall wipe every tear from their eyes.” Doesn’t sound like such a bad deal to me
Wow Amazing You speak Truth Brother...I hear the same in the spirit I feel so connected I’ve written on other blogs about these two groups you are so eloquent in you’re writing as I am not...it’s hard for me to get my point across...🙏🏼
 
Dec 4, 2021
67
15
8
I would take another look at this idea there there are three groups in sheep and goat judgement. Ultimately, all people are in one of two categories: sheep or goats. There isn't a third "Brethren" category completely distinct from the sheep and goats. The brethren are numbered among the sheep. The brethren of Christ are also the brethren of the sheep and even though Christ is God He is also our brother. That's how treating our brethren good is tantamount to treating Christ good.
If the sheep and goat separation is at the Great white throne judgment then this would be the second resurrection where all the dead will be raised and judged whether they have done go
Just a reminder:
Can you find a directive from the LORD or the Apostles that the LORD will leave behind His Saints and then come back for them after the Resurrection?
I have a open heart, mind and spiritual ears to listen.
The First resurrection is the gathering of the holy Saints that will make up the kingdom of God that is being set up on earth we don’t go up into the clouds and hang out on a cloud. the purpose is to come down on earth and restore the earth by God now taking control over the earth and the evil in the earth and restoring all things and setting up his kingdom of Rule. We go up and get our new bodies just like Jesus and are given our. Rewards which are the positions and jobs we’re going to be doing in the kingdom and now come back down to earth...At this point all evil will be destroyed so God’s people who didn’t resurrect will be left on the earth and now Jesus with his saints will be ruling those people it’s not a bad thing it’s really a good thing it’s God coming to save his people from the devil all gods people have to worry about is not taking the mark and just enduring to the end. Now you have heard from an Apostle.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
Since COVID and the False Election I was so Grieved in Spirit...😞 God told me we are in the Beginning of Sorrows......Matthew Chapter 24 gives us the timeline
Amen,
I think all we have to do is look at the world. Look at the massive natural disasters, This diseases of the past few decades. and everything else. to know. these things you mentioned in Matt 24 are upon us..
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
You were reported for bearing false witness.
You were given room and time to return to Grace but you decided against it.

Bearing false witness against your neighbor is sin - you seem to relish in this sin.
Now your bearing false witness,

I did not bear false witness against you. I even asked you to prove it. You could not even name the accusation against me. You pointed me to a post. In which what I said in that post was true.

Report away my friend..
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,952
1,873
113
That's far from the end, buddy. You remember the Babylonian statue? It shows a slow progression of history from Babylon the golden head down to the final ten toes. After WWI and WWII, the world moved into the "feet" made of iron and clay. In biblical code language, all those metals are political powers, while "clay" is individuals. This new material shows a rising power from civil groups, you've all these former colonies that declared independence, the former rule of iron from those empires was being greatly weakened and fractured. Eventually it will get to the ten toes, which are the ten horns of the Beast. I believe it's very close, but we're not there yet.
Far from the end?

Forgive me, But I see the return of Christ to destroy the final beast THE END
 
Status
Not open for further replies.