Is it LAWFUL to kill animals?

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Jan 12, 2022
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I can respect that. Now the only thing you need to understand is: "Thou shalt not kill." After that you will realize you can't kill your children, neither your animals. Since their being your possession doesn't supersede the Law.

The lamb Abel killed wasn't rebellious nor shameful, that is not the point. Actually, the lamb was innocent, with innocent blood, because the fact that the lamb is Abel's possession, doesn't negate the fact that it has innocent blood in his veins.

As for the rest of your post, I've been there, that is the reasonable logic we take to make sense of it, i know. You need to build on the Rock. And the Rock said: Thou shalt not kill; Sheeding innocent blood is an abomination; He that kills an ox is as if he slew a man. If you build on top of these, your house will never fall again.
Those condemned to die by the Law of God do not die for vanity, but because they are guilty of the sins unto death. Animals do not fall under this commandment which is part of loving your brother. God's gift of using the things of the earth like the animals and plants is not superseding the Law, but is actually the first one written on the very first page of the very first book of the Law. In the New Testament as well as the Old though there are verses about how one can use the things of the earth without abusing them, and about how it is the sign of wise men in the Proverbs to care for one's animals and wards and charges. One can utilize and harvest the animals and still have a heart for the animals and fellow creations of the Earth.

Well on this part really if you would read the whole chapter of Jeremiah 7 it is quite a great chapter of a great book and you may find how what I have said to you here is no lie nor me just making statements out of my own understanding, but merely these verses by the prophets are not condemning meat eating, they are pointed at a society that was wicked, but thought they were good because they went to the temple and did sacrifices and said prayers, the superficial things without the Spirit, and forgot the purpose even of the sacrifices, the temple, the prayers, the oaths taken and pronounced, the covenants they make with God at them all, and so much more in the first place. The end of the chapter is also very interesting. This event is very interesting to the topic of killing animals for food is an interesting role reversal really as God promises he will kill all of the wicked people and feed their meat rather to the animals of the earth to eat their flesh and the birds of the air to drink their blood.
 
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Animals do not fall under this commandment which is part of loving your brother.
So if animals can't sin, that would make them all innocent forever, correct?
One can utilize and harvest the animals and still have a heart for the animals and fellow creations of the Earth.
No, you can't serve two masters. Killing them is not compatible with having a heart for them. If you had an heart for them you wouldn't kill them, and feed of their corpses, where the eagles gather.
Glad you liked it, because it clearly condemns blood sacrifices in the temple, all of them.

Jeremiah 7:5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
 
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He cannot and hold to what he believes at the same time, for they contradict each other.
First he needs to understand: Shedding innocent blood is an abomination. Then I'll answer him.

Matthew 15:26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Truth always contradicts a lie, you chose whom ye will serve.
 
Jan 12, 2022
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So if animals can't sin, that would make them all innocent forever, correct?

No, you can't serve two masters. Killing them is not compatible with having a heart for them. If you had an heart for them you wouldn't kill them, and feed of their corpses, where the eagles gather.

Glad you liked it, because it clearly condemns blood sacrifices in the temple, all of them.

Jeremiah 7:5 For if ye throughly amend your ways and your doings; if ye throughly execute judgment between a man and his neighbour;
6 If ye oppress not the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, and shed not innocent blood in this place, neither walk after other gods to your hurt:
7 Then will I cause you to dwell in this place, in the land that I gave to your fathers, for ever and ever.

30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it.
Animals can sin, the father of lies is that beast of the field the serpent after all and he will most certainly be killed by the Lord my God, amen.
 
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Animals can sin, the father of lies is that beast of the field the serpent after all and he will most certainly be killed by the Lord my God, amen.
Ok, the snake is proven guilty. But the lamb wasn't, the lamb was innocent. And the Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood.
 
Jan 12, 2022
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Ok, the snake is proven guilty. But the lamb wasn't, the lamb was innocent. And the Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood.
The animals were put into the possession of Man by God. This makes the problem of the Devil much worse if you think about it. How be it they obeyed the creature put into their dominion? But ah, it is always been this as seen in their golden calves, they begin worshipping the creatures and the creation itself that are ironically made lower than themselves rather than the Creator of it all that made them to be sons of God, Lord Jesus.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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So if animals can't sin, that would make them all innocent forever, correct?
No; that's a logical fallacy called a category error. Animals are not "innocent"; it's simply the wrong adjective to use for them. They are not morally culpable, so are neither innocent nor guilty.

I'm amazed that you are still stubbornly holding on to your error, when you have been told so thoroughly and so often that you are wrong. There is no honour in being an unteachable fool.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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So, tell us, if he forbade them from touching dead bodies, how could they skin them, cut them, cook them and eat them, without touching them?

They are not food. The herbs and fruits are food since the beginning, and God can't change. Neither the Law changes. So, why would you shed innocent blood, when you have herbs and fruits for food? -It isn't necessary to shed innocent blood, you do it because you lust after flesh, and are not contented with the food Father gave you. Let it be known, whosoever tastes flesh, eats the body of death.

Now, I will show you how killing animals is a transgression, specifically murder:
1. Humans and animals are brothers of the same Father, they were made by the same Hand, with the same dust, and share the same "breath of Life":

Ecclesiastes 3:18 I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
20 All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.

-Because of this, killing an animal is equated as killing a man, since the same breath that is found in man, is also found in animals:

Isaiah 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; [...]

-Making it a transgression against the Breath of the Father. Murder, because humans and animals are brothers of the same Father.

Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

-You see they ask Him: when have we saw you? No man can see God, so He was talking about all creatures, even the least of these, because God is present in all Life forms, so doing it to any creature is doing it to Him.

You have to decide if you believe Abel was righteous, or if you believe he shed innocent blood, you can't have both.

Is not the KJV 1611 Scripture, the Bible? Or is it only part Scripture, part "not Scripture"? Are you partially rejecting the KJV 1611, and the Latin Vulgate, and the Septuagint? Anyways, do you actually believe the Law changes? Can murder be "legalized"?

That is not what it is written, He made coats of skins, you are assuming He kill the animals, it could have been wool of sheeps, or maybe the animals died of natural causes.

1. Jesus cannot sin.
2. Shedding innocent blood is sin.
3. Jesus cannot shed innocent blood.

The Lord hates hands that shed innocent blood:

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
the Hebrew is clear what Skins are in Genesis 3


Hebrew word "ore ' skin, hide OF AN ANIMAL. God is right in everything he does FYI an animal was made for man not man for the animal. they cannot sin there for innocent is not of animals or bugs. They were not created in the image of God. Clearly, God killed some kind of animal to cover Adam and Eve because that is what Genesis chapter three says. This too is symbolic of Christ who was to be our covering.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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the Hebrew is clear what Skins are in Genesis 3


Hebrew word "ore ' skin, hide OF AN ANIMAL. God is right in everything he does FYI an animal was made for man not man for the animal. they cannot sin there for innocent is not of animals or bugs. They were not created in the image of God. Clearly, God killed some kind of animal to cover Adam and Eve because that is what Genesis chapter three says. This too is symbolic of Christ who was to be our covering.


Although the text says nothing about a sacrifice, many believe that a sacrifice is implied.

It is often taught that after the first sin was committed, God wanted to show Adam and Eve that sin has consequences, and so He slew an animal in front of them, and made clothes for them from the hide of the dead animal.

Some have even speculated that the animal was a lamb, thereby presenting a prophetical picture of Jesus, the Lamb of God, slain from the foundation of the world (Revelation 5:6; 13:8).

Furthermore, some have argued that in this death of the animal, God was teaching Adam and Eve the theological principle of substitutionary atonement. He had told Adam that if they ate of the fruit they would surely die, and so after they ate of the fruit, God should have killed them, but instead, He killed an animal in their place.
 
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They are all innocent, so you just need to prove them guilty, if you can. That is your problem, I'm the one saying they are innocent, so if you want to say they are guilty, you have to prove they are guilty.

Have you read Malachi?

Malachi 2:8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

Isaiah?

Isaiah 1:11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the Lord: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Hosea?

Hosea 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

-I have read Leviticus, you have to chose whom you will serve.

Not me, Father speaks of sin before Cain slew his brother:

Genesis 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

The fact that God acknowledges the existence of sin, proves the existence of the Law:

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Jesus rebuked the "eye for an eye" mentality, He is the Truth, His Law is Perfect, and He has always existed, and is always the same, including in the time of Cain:

Genesis 4:15 And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Cain, sinned, which alone proves the existence of the Law, was judged, punished, and the Lord demonstrated that the Law was the same, because Jesus confirmed this in His days, to not repay evil with evil, to turn the other cheek.

You haven't learned a thing. It's ok, maybe one day. I do want you to know that you have to reject over a dozen verses that I showed you, in order to make that statement. But here's some more:

Isaiah 1:15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood.

Isaiah 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.

Can you also kill your children? -Because they are also your possession, and according to you because they are your possession it means you can kill them, and they don't have innocent blood, right? Do you have any Scripture to support this, or just your own understanding? -You keep saying what it means, but your witness alone proves nothing. You have to do better than that.

This verse actually rebukes blood sacrifices, since the condition for forgiveness is "if you be willing and obedient", not if you kill lambs.
Obedience doesn't include blood sacrifices:

Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:


Genesis 49:27 Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

Romans 1:11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
John 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

-Chose ye this day whom you will serve:

Revelation 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Jeremiah 15:2 And when they ask you, ‘Where shall we go?’ you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord: “‘Those who are for pestilence, to pestilence, and those who are for the sword, to the sword; those who are for famine, to famine, and those who are for captivity, to captivity.’

Isaiah 33:1 Ah, you destroyer, who yourself have not been destroyed, you traitor, whom none has betrayed! When you have ceased to destroy, you will be destroyed; and when you have finished betraying, they will betray you.

Matthew 7:12 So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Do you move on the earth?

Exodus 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
The one thing I love about people on this platform is they read to respond and or argue not to understand!!!
 
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The animals were put into the possession of Man by God.
We already seen, possession is not an excuse to kill them, because your children are also your possession and you can't kill them based on that. But thank you for pointing out the sin of the snake, it proves animals can be charged for their sin, and that they do sin. That they are responsible for their sins.
Arise Peter, kill and eat
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.
They are not morally culpable
Was the snake not "morally culpable" for lying to the woman? Why would God judge the snake if she wasn't responsible?

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

-The snake was declared guilty by God, and punished accordingly. "Because thou hast done this", not for no reason, but because the snake sinned, and was responsible for it. So, animals can and do sin, they are responsible for their sins, and can be declared guilty too.
Those who are full of the knowledge of the Lord, don't hurt nor destroy, they eat straw like the lion:

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
That's right, because when God commands it, it is by default, not illegal
Yes, when God commands something it cannot, possibly, be unlawful. So when something unlawfull is commanded, it cannot have, possibly, have been declared by Him, even if it is claimed by men to have been commanded by Him. It is impossible for God to command something that it is unlawful. And make no mistake: Shedding innocent blood is certainly unlawful.
God killed some kind of animal to cover Adam and Eve because that is what Genesis chapter three says.
In what verse of Genesis chapter 3 does it say: "God killed some kind of animal"? -It doesn't.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Was the snake not "morally culpable" for lying to the woman? Why would God judge the snake if she wasn't responsible?
That 'snake' is not a member of the animal kingdom.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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Yes, when God commands something it cannot, possibly, be unlawful. So when something unlawfull is commanded, it cannot have, possibly, have been declared by Him, even if it is claimed by men to have been commanded by Him. It is impossible for God to command something that it is unlawful. And make no mistake: Shedding innocent blood is certainly unlawful.
You have yet to give the verse/s that proclaim animals "innocent."

I am simply holding you to your own standard.

I know you don't like it :oops:
 
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That 'snake' is not a member of the animal kingdom.
Chapter and verse?

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
You have yet to give the verse/s that proclaim animals "innocent."
Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
I am simply holding you to your own standard.
If you were holding to my own standard, you would adress the verse I gave you three times already, not just ignore it and ask agains as if I had never given you any.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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We already seen, possession is not an excuse to kill them, because your children are also your possession and you can't kill them based on that. But thank you for pointing out the sin of the snake, it proves animals can be charged for their sin, and that they do sin. That they are responsible for their sins.

James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Acts 10:14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

Was the snake not "morally culpable" for lying to the woman? Why would God judge the snake if she wasn't responsible?

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

-The snake was declared guilty by God, and punished accordingly. "Because thou hast done this", not for no reason, but because the snake sinned, and was responsible for it. So, animals can and do sin, they are responsible for their sins, and can be declared guilty too.
Those who are full of the knowledge of the Lord, don't hurt nor destroy, they eat straw like the lion:

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Yes, when God commands something it cannot, possibly, be unlawful. So when something unlawfull is commanded, it cannot have, possibly, have been declared by Him, even if it is claimed by men to have been commanded by Him. It is impossible for God to command something that it is unlawful. And make no mistake: Shedding innocent blood is certainly unlawful.

In what verse of Genesis chapter 3 does it say: "God killed some kind of animal"? -It doesn't.

in Genesis 3
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Chapter and verse?

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

Genesis 3:14 And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

Genesis 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

If you were holding to my own standard, you would adress the verse I gave you three times already, not just ignore it and ask agains as if I had never given you any.
lookup the term Context then read Genesis chapter 3
 
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