Is the first resurrection divided into two groups?

[Carry_Your_Name]

Immortality is put on through faith in Christ alone.

Paul declares multiple times that the wages of sin is death—absolute death, cessation of life. Twenty times he tells us that death is the punishment for sin—and also in a dozen places that life and immortality are special privileges, as in Romans 6:23 and 8:11.

Our God is a Consuming Fire

Amen. This world is but a temporary abode, our eternal home is in heaven with the Father.

 

[Magenta]

Amen. This world is but a temporary abode, our eternal home is in heaven with the Father.

Hebrews 13:14

 

[Nehemiah6]

The second group is all of the others saints who didn’t come to life until after 1,000 years.

Actually those who were not martyred is because they were raptured before the Tribulation. And in fact that is the Resurrection/Rapture, with all those who had passed on being resurrected at that time.

 

[Magenta]

1 John 17:2-3

 

[DavidTree]

L


brother imm not saying there’s no resirrection of the dead 🙂

I’m saying the physical body is not what’s raised up. Look at what Paul’s saying here this is just if you keep reading on from where you stopped

“But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

….So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; ( genesis 2 )

the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. ( Gods children through Christ )

Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.


And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:35, 42-47, 49‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Paul Is explaining that then natural body we have now , is not what’s going to be raised up but our spiritual body is what is raised up.

our flesh body was made from the dust , it’s going to die and return to the dust. It’s like a seed that is planted and dies what is raised up is the spiritual body.

im In no way saying the dead aren’t raised I’m saying it’s not physical , not the dead natiral Man that’s raised up not oir flesh body . Do you see what Paul’s explaining ?

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:50‬ ‭

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I hope this clears up what I’m saying the body of flesh is doomed to the first death all Men are appointed to its death it will not rise , the spiritual Body Christ redeems through the gospel will be raised up at the resurrection carefully look at that quote from Paul I left above to see what I’m saying

If the physical body is not raised "then Christ is not raised from the dead and we are false witnesses".

Look in the tomb of where the stone was rolled away - His physical body is not there.................

Read again the scripture more carefully - there must be to have the raising of the actual dead before it is transformed into the immortal.

read again 1 cor ch15 and Isaiah ch26 = there will be empty graves where once there were dead bodies/bones

REMEMBER: Jospeph proiphesied to Israel = Take my bones with you when you Exodus Egypt

 

[DavidTree]

Actually those who were not martyred is because they were raptured before the Tribulation. And in fact that is the Resurrection/Rapture, with all those who had passed on being resurrected at that time.

Where does the the LORD say this in Revelation?

Please search the scriptures and see if you find the LORD or the Apostles giving a directive:

A.) that Christ will come before the Resurrection to rapture His Elect/Saints/Bride
and
B.) then come back again for a Third Coming to Resurrect the Dead in Him
and/or
C.) a rapture that occurs BEFORE His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the Dead in HIM

This would clear up the confusion and be a great blessing for the Body of Christ.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Actually those who were not martyred is because they were raptured before the Tribulation. And in fact that is the Resurrection/Rapture, with all those who had passed on being resurrected at that time.

Not here, man. Leave your rapture heresy for another place in another time. Runningman was right, the second group is the unbelievers - "I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept, that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust." - Acts 24:15

 

[Magenta]

If the physical body is not raised "then Christ is not raised from the dead and we are false witnesses".

From 1 Cor 15:14-18

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Where does the the LORD say this in Revelation?

Please search the scriptures and see if you find the LORD or the Apostles giving a directive:

A.) that Christ will come before the Resurrection to rapture His Elect/Saints/Bride
and
B.) then come back again for a Third Coming to Resurrect the Dead in Him
and/or
C.) a rapture that occurs BEFORE His Second Coming and the Resurrection of the Dead in HIM

This would clear up the confusion and be a great blessing for the Body of Christ.

I don't know why the church is both referred to as the Bride and the Body of Christ. There're some verses teaching the doctrine of the church being the Body of Christ, and each individual is a member with his own functions and talents, but I don't remember anywhere in the bible that SPECIFICALLY says that the church is also the bride -as specific as the verses that teach the Body of Christ doctrine, all of that comes from the pulpit and many folks here. And then based on numerous verses in the OT where Israel was compared as a woman, I've reached to the conclusion that the Church is the Body, while Israel is the Bride - who will be preserved till they see the second coming with their own eyes, then "the tribes of the earth will mourn." And only then will the two become "one flesh". In one body.

 

[iamsoandso]

Here is the KEY to the answer of that question - literal or symbolic 1,000 Years?

Revelation chapter 20 - the LORD does not use a single symbolic term(s)/word/language as HE did before this chapter.

PROOF TEXT: Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;

Everyone needs to ask: Why now at chapter 20 does the LORD drop the symbolism?

In fact that's always been the question in that if ask if the flood was literal or symbolic it is always perceived as literal. Abraham leaving out of Ur is perceived as literal, the 400 years in Egypt also. The parting of the Red sea is never debated as an event not literal. Fast forwarding to the captivity in Assyria or Babylon it is always perceived as literal,and then Persia,and Greece and Rome. In fact if one was ask if the Lord was born of an virgin birth everyone would contend it to be literal. The nails of the Cross they would agree were literal and the spear in the Lords side also.

Doesn't everyone contend that the Lord literally rose from the grave and literally ascended to heaven and that he was literally put to death on the Cross? And then Jerusalem was it not surrounded and destroyed and the Temple torn down? Is there an event that the Lord did not say would come to pass and it did not take place literally? All of an sudden there is the Revelation and after the Almighty God saying for years and years the things he would cause to come to pass and accomplishing them literally https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-10.htm all of a sudden,,,after he has convinced us that the things he said would literally happen,happened he has changed and they are now no longer literal in their fulfillment? Hmm the God in those Scriptures has always stated what would literally happen and they always literally have.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

In fact that's always been the question in that if ask if the flood was literal or symbolic it is always perceived as literal. Abraham leaving out of Ur is perceived as literal, the 400 years in Egypt also. The parting of the Red sea is never debated as an event not literal. Fast forwarding to the captivity in Assyria or Babylon it is always perceived as literal,and then Persia,and Greece and Rome. In fact if one was ask if the Lord was born of an virgin birth everyone would contend it to be literal. The nails of the Cross they would agree were literal and the spear in the Lords side also.

Doesn't everyone contend that the Lord literally rose from the grave and literally ascended to heaven and that he was literally put to death on the Cross? And then Jerusalem was it not surrounded and destroyed and the Temple torn down? Is there an event that the Lord did not say would come to pass and it did not take place literally? All of an sudden there is the Revelation and after the Almighty God saying for years and years the things he would cause to come to pass and accomplishing them literally https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-10.htm all of a sudden,,,after he has convinced us that the things he said would literally happen,happened he has changed and they are now no longer literal in their fulfillment? Hmm the God in those Scriptures has always stated what would literally happen and they always literally have.

What's literal yesterday is symbolic for tomorrow. It's literal for an old thing, but symbolic for a new thing - which is similar to the old thing in nature. We use what we know to describe what we don't know - because we don't know what we don't know. That's the purpose of all of Jesus's parables and other parables.

 

[birdie]

What’s your take on this passage?

1 Corinthians 15:20-26 KJV

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death

Thanks Runningman for your question. The key point to get a hold of in this scripture is the idea that resurrection is something that is talking about the born again experience. It is not talking about everyone dies physically and then is resurrected physically. It is talking about people were dead spiritually and then are resurrected spiritually to new life by being born again, born to a new life in Christ. We read: “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Notice that a person who has been born again is spoken of as already risen with Christ. They are resurrected from a dead spirit apart from God to a living spirit with God. The scripture you ask about says that by man came death. In other words, people sinned and that sin nature was dead to God. But then Christ came along and died on the cross and rose again and gave a new resurrected spirit to persons who once only had a dead spirit. We read about this: ""And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" This is talking about a person who wasn't in Christ. But then Christ comes along and quickens that person to new life in Him, to a relationship with him. Them that slept in the scripture you are asking about is meaning them that were dead spiritually. The scripture goes on to talk about a person in Christ's OWN order of relationship with Christ. It says "But every man in his own order:" So each person has an order of events. First, that person is a 'Firstfruit', meaning that Christ makes them born again and they are given his spirit. Second, Christ comes and that person gets to be with the Lord eternally. Death does not enter the picture ever again at that point. Even if a born again Christian (a firstfruits) dies physically after knowing Christ, they will not experience death in the spirit ever again and will go on to be with the Lord in whatever way he has that set up for believers. That is why once a person is born again they never really die from that point on: "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. " Again, note the use of the phrase "were dead". That means were dead in trespasses and sins - in other words were dead spiritually speaking. But Christ made them born again and they never die henceforth.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Thanks Runningman for your question. The key point to get a hold of in this scripture is the idea that resurrection is something that is talking about the born again experience. It is not talking about everyone dies physically and then is resurrected physically. It is talking about people were dead spiritually and then are resurrected spiritually to new life by being born again, born to a new life in Christ. We read: “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Notice that a person who has been born again is spoken of as already risen with Christ. They are resurrected from a dead spirit apart from God to a living spirit with God. The scripture you ask about says that by man came death. In other words, people sinned and that sin nature was dead to God. But then Christ came along and died on the cross and rose again and gave a new resurrected spirit to persons who once only had a dead spirit. We read about this: ""And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" This is talking about a person who wasn't in Christ. But then Christ comes along and quickens that person to new life in Him, to a relationship with him. Them that slept in the scripture you are asking about is meaning them that were dead spiritually. The scripture goes on to talk about a person in Christ's OWN order of relationship with Christ. It says "But every man in his own order:" So each person has an order of events. First, that person is a 'Firstfruit', meaning that Christ makes them born again and they are given his spirit. Second, Christ comes and that person gets to be with the Lord eternally. Death does not enter the picture ever again at that point. Even if a born again Christian (a firstfruits) dies physically after knowing Christ, they will not experience death in the spirit ever again and will go on to be with the Lord in whatever way he has that set up for believers. That is why once a person is born again they never really die from that point on: "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. " Again, note the use of the phrase "were dead". That means were dead in trespasses and sins - in other words were dead spiritually speaking. But Christ made them born again and they never die henceforth.

A new IDENTITY in Christ, period.

 

[Magenta]

I don't know why the church is both referred to as the Bride and the Body of Christ.
There're some verses teaching the doctrine of the church being the Body of Christ, and
each individual is a member with his own functions and talents, but I don't remember
anywhere in the bible that SPECIFICALLY says that the church is also the bride

I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one
husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2

See also Mark 2:19-20, John 3:29, Rev 21:2. Our joining with Christ is likened
to a marriage; there is to be a wedding feast to which all have been invited,
and those properly clothed (that is to say, in the righteousness of Christ) partake.

Revelation 22:16-17

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. For I promised you to one
husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. 2 Corinthians 11:2

See also Mark 2:19-20, John 3:29, Rev 21:2. Our joining with Christ is likened
to a marriage; there is to be a wedding feast to which all have been invited,
and those properly clothed (that is to say, in the righteousness of Christ) partake.

Revelation 22:16-17

Thanks, I understand the purpose of this illustration, but in Revelation 14, only the 144,000 perfectly fulfilled 2 Corinthians 11:2 by presenting themselves as "virgins".

 

[Magenta]

Thanks, I understand the purpose of this illustration, but in Revelation 14, only the
144,000 perfectly fulfilled 2 Corinthians 11:2 by presenting themselves as "virgins".

2 Cor 11:2 is not the only reference made regarding believers being the bride of Christ
and partaking of the wedding supper, though. 2 Cor 11:2~ being presented "as" something
does not mean we literally are that something, especially when we have been made clean
and purified through the washing of the Word. As well as the fact that Rev is highly symbolic.

Aren't the 144,000 from the 12 tribes? Just my thoughts. Any ways, it's late. Good night

 

[Runningman]

First - there is no such thing as a two-part resurrection - where part of it occurs at one point in time, and another part at a later time.

A given resurrection occurs at a given time.

Any resurrection that occurs at a later time is another [different] resurrection altogether.

Second -

Revelation 20:

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The text in this color is an 'aside' - offset by the word 'But'. It is a temporary "jump" away from the thought process of what is before it and after it.

It is not part of the description of the first resurrection.

Third -

Can you see how that 'the rest of the dead' cannot possibly be a part of the first resurrection?

Those mentioned who are part of the first resurrection reign with Christ for 1000 years.

How can anyone who 'lived not again until the thousand years were finished' reign with Christ during that thousand years???

I think you are creating a temporary jump away from the thought process. Though it may be awkwardly worded, the immediate context is clear that there is a resurrection before and after the millennium. The only resurrection mentioned there is the first resurrection and the first resurrection is all saints.

Not sure why so many people don’t like this, I guess maybe because people had the idea that everyone got a resurrected body in the millennial kingdom. That’s false. You heard it here first. We’ll see when we get there.

However, the text is clear that during the millennium the only people resurrected are those who were beheaded in the great tribulation. That doesn’t mean all of the other saints are hung out to dry and don’t get to participate. I do see that the non-resurrected souls of saints will be present to reign with Christ.

In conclusion the MK will be composed of the whole church, some resurrected, some not. God bless.

 

[DavidTree]

In fact that's always been the question in that if ask if the flood was literal or symbolic it is always perceived as literal. Abraham leaving out of Ur is perceived as literal, the 400 years in Egypt also. The parting of the Red sea is never debated as an event not literal. Fast forwarding to the captivity in Assyria or Babylon it is always perceived as literal,and then Persia,and Greece and Rome. In fact if one was ask if the Lord was born of an virgin birth everyone would contend it to be literal. The nails of the Cross they would agree were literal and the spear in the Lords side also.

Doesn't everyone contend that the Lord literally rose from the grave and literally ascended to heaven and that he was literally put to death on the Cross? And then Jerusalem was it not surrounded and destroyed and the Temple torn down? Is there an event that the Lord did not say would come to pass and it did not take place literally? All of an sudden there is the Revelation and after the Almighty God saying for years and years the things he would cause to come to pass and accomplishing them literally https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/46-10.htm all of a sudden,,,after he has convinced us that the things he said would literally happen,happened he has changed and they are now no longer literal in their fulfillment? Hmm the God in those Scriptures has always stated what would literally happen and they always literally have.

I have never encountered any Believer who ever questioned these events you mentioned as whether they were literal or symbolic.

The acknowledgment and discovery is that the LORD intermixed symbolic form with literal in Revelation but when we arrive at chapter 20 He drops the use of symbolism and goes 100% literal.

Remember that the LORD used many parables in His Gospel.

 

[DavidTree]

I don't know why the church is both referred to as the Bride and the Body of Christ. There're some verses teaching the doctrine of the church being the Body of Christ, and each individual is a member with his own functions and talents, but I don't remember anywhere in the bible that SPECIFICALLY says that the church is also the bride -as specific as the verses that teach the Body of Christ doctrine, all of that comes from the pulpit and many folks here. And then based on numerous verses in the OT where Israel was compared as a woman, I've reached to the conclusion that the Church is the Body, while Israel is the Bride - who will be preserved till they see the second coming with their own eyes, then "the tribes of the earth will mourn." And only then will the two become "one flesh". In one body.

Brother, I am shocked you do not know this.

#1. His Body as the Bride of Christ was not a conjuction from any religion but a Marriage made in Heaven = from the Father.
#2. The heresy of pre-trib is designed to "separate what God has joined together" = thus division in the Body of Christ and even more error as a result and confusion.
#3. The earthbound nation of Israel according to the flesh cannot be the Bride of Christ = have you forgotten Romans, Galatians, the Gospels and Acts
#4. Jew and Gentile have been joined together in Christ and have become His Bride.
#5. Therefore what God has joined together, let no man(pre-trib/false doctrine) separate = "for I hate divorce says, the LORD"
#6. On the 6th day Elohim made man - male and female made He them = Husband and Wife from the Beginning
#7. "And the TWO shall be ONE flesh and are no longer two" says the LORD
#8. i purposely left out the Scriptures for this is a new beginning of what you already know but now need to seek and be refreshed by the Word and the Spirit.

 

[Runningman]

Thanks Runningman for your question. The key point to get a hold of in this scripture is the idea that resurrection is something that is talking about the born again experience. It is not talking about everyone dies physically and then is resurrected physically. It is talking about people were dead spiritually and then are resurrected spiritually to new life by being born again, born to a new life in Christ. We read: “If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.” ‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬ Notice that a person who has been born again is spoken of as already risen with Christ. They are resurrected from a dead spirit apart from God to a living spirit with God. The scripture you ask about says that by man came death. In other words, people sinned and that sin nature was dead to God. But then Christ came along and died on the cross and rose again and gave a new resurrected spirit to persons who once only had a dead spirit. We read about this: ""And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins" This is talking about a person who wasn't in Christ. But then Christ comes along and quickens that person to new life in Him, to a relationship with him. Them that slept in the scripture you are asking about is meaning them that were dead spiritually. The scripture goes on to talk about a person in Christ's OWN order of relationship with Christ. It says "But every man in his own order:" So each person has an order of events. First, that person is a 'Firstfruit', meaning that Christ makes them born again and they are given his spirit. Second, Christ comes and that person gets to be with the Lord eternally. Death does not enter the picture ever again at that point. Even if a born again Christian (a firstfruits) dies physically after knowing Christ, they will not experience death in the spirit ever again and will go on to be with the Lord in whatever way he has that set up for believers. That is why once a person is born again they never really die from that point on: "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. " Again, note the use of the phrase "were dead". That means were dead in trespasses and sins - in other words were dead spiritually speaking. But Christ made them born again and they never die henceforth.

I agree with spiritual resurrection or being born again, but Christ rose from the dead literally and tangibly and we are to expect the same thing to happen to us. It’s so important that the validity of our faith hangs singularly from that thread.


1 Corinthians 15:12-19 KJV
12Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain. 15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not. 16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised: 17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished. 19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.