An Analysis on the 144,000 in Revelation

[ewq1938]

No you didn’t. You deliberately conflated sin and sin offering. The verse you quoted clearly stated: “For he hath made him to be sin for us.”

Sin there is short for sin sacrifice. I have already proven that. It is YOU who is conflating.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Sin there is short for sin sacrifice. I have already proven that. It is YOU who is conflating.

No where in the bible says that. Sin sacrifice is without blemish, which is the OPPOSITE of sin.

 

[ewq1938]

No where in the bible says that. Sin sacrifice is without blemish, which is the OPPOSITE of sin.

(TLV) He made the One who knew no sin to become a sin offering on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

(Williams) He made Him who personally knew nothing of sin to be a sin-offering for us, so that through union with Him we might come into right standing with God.

Barnes:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us - The Greek here is, ‘for him who knew no sin, he hath made sin, or a sin-offering for us.’


Clarke:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us - He made him who knew no sin, (who was innocent), a sin-offering for us.



Matthew Henry:

He was made sin; not a sinner, but sin, that is, a sin-offering, a sacrifice for sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

(TLV) He made the One who knew no sin to become a sin offering on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.

(Williams) He made Him who personally knew nothing of sin to be a sin-offering for us, so that through union with Him we might come into right standing with God.

Barnes:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us - The Greek here is, ‘for him who knew no sin, he hath made sin, or a sin-offering for us.’


Clarke:

2 Corinthians 5:21

For he hath made him to be sin for us - He made him who knew no sin, (who was innocent), a sin-offering for us.



Matthew Henry:

He was made sin; not a sinner, but sin, that is, a sin-offering, a sacrifice for sin.

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor 5:21)

Everything else is commentary, not what the verse says. If the bible you read says sin offering or sin sacrifice, that bible's corrupted, change to another one.

 

[ewq1938]

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. (2 Cor 5:21)

Everything else is commentary, not what the verse says.

No, it's experts who know what they are talking about. You are wrong.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

Forget about the confusing term "laying of hand". You do know that this term could also mean violent assault or sexual assault, right? As in "punching" or "groping"?

And if I don't know the father.His spirit isn't in me, and my father would have been a murder from the beginning.But I do know the father. and the spirit,water and blood is there as my witness.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

No, it's experts who know what they are talking about. You are wrong.

Yeah, you go listen to the "experts", I listen to God. You sound exactly like those talking heads on TV who hide behind the "experts", using their authority as both weapon and shield to fight with opponents, while they themselves are abdicated.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

That is substitutionary atonement. He who had NO sin became sin and died for us.

He was perfect yet he wanted John to prepare him for works on the cross.

 

[ewq1938]

Yeah, you go listen to the "experts", I listen to God.

And enjoy your messiah made of sin. My Messiah is not made of sin.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

And enjoy your messiah made of sin. My Messiah is not made of sin.

Made sin is not made OF sin. You're audaciously twisting the Scripture. Shame on you.

 

[Lifted_by_the_word]

You know what the laying of hands is? It is in the image of Gods covenant which he made with us.Your left hand is the old covenant and the right hand is the new.
First,they got convicted of their sins right? through the spirit and the water.
When they believed in Jesus,they received the Holy Spirit on the cross afterwards in the book of Acts.
The Apostles had the laying of hands because they are first fruits.You to can do this if you keep his words and covenants.A solo person can also be saved if they are convicted of their sins and ask for forgiveness.

Look at your hands.ten,for the ten commandments.Two thumbs in the image of the covenants.
Take your hands with your fingers intertwined together, and your thumbs side by side in prayer.Theres our rock with the covenants.
Now, open them,and place your fingers together and touch your palms together with your thumbs side by side in prayer.There's the Dove of peace with the covenants.
Now, hold both hands out. With your left hand form a fist with your thumb in side it.
And with your right,place your fingers together, palm facing you,with your thumb in the palm of your hand.
That is the rock and dove holding the covenants in their heart.
Do you do good works with your hands and bare good fruit?

Where's the new commandment Jesus gave us? It's in your heart, and you proclaim the kingdom of God with a tongue of fire to the dead with it.

Look at your feet. Ten for the commandments.Two big toes in the image of the covenants.Place them together.There's Noahs Ark.
Now walk on water.Walk with God.

Think about what I just told you real hard for awhile.I cried when the thought hit me,this morning,waking up. For the first time in years I cried. God wants spiritual People.Read his words.Pray on it.When you get to the point where all's you can think about is God. ask him, "who are you? please, God,I want to know you for who you really are" .
I don't mean to be judgmental.Let that fire in you burn into a inferno. Love you all.God is everywhere, and he is forever great and should be praised forever, and ever.Amen.

I can also form the Lords cup with my hands with both being in the image of the covenant. My left,death.My right,life.
Now I hold my left hand with two fingers out ,and place it in my right closed fist and open the door to the kingdom.
If I place my hands out in front of me with my pinky's and palms touching,I have the Bible in my hand.Look where my thumbs are.
Lets form noah's Ark by placing my pinky's and palms like before but instead I'll fold them in shape of a boat.Then I'll place the covenants inside the Ark.
Lastly I'll take my index finger and strike the middle of my left palm.Then the same to my right. That's the parable of the ten virgins.
I'll add another step to it and use my index finger and strike my middle left palm.remove my index and close my fist with my thumb on the outside.
Those virgins were left out in the dark.
Same to my right.But now I'll put my thumb into my palm before striking the middle.They had the keep the covenants and his words in their hearts and were invited to the wedding.

 

[Absolutely]

You need to learn HOW to display the quotes of others.


Of course the dead rise first, ahead of the living. That is exactly what 1 Thess 4 SAYS. And all of that IS at the second coming.

1 Cor 15:23 proves that the single resurrection of ALL believers (those who belong to Him) will occur "when He comes"

And 2 Thess 2:1 says plainly that it occurs at the Second Coming.


Oh yeah. The very BLOODY chapter about sharp sickles. no resurrection in that chapter.


Jesus used those two words to equate "HOW PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN NOAH'S DAY COMPARED TO HOW PEOPLE WLL BE LIVING WHEN JESUS COMES BACK".


You'll think that some glitch happened when you finally realize that you may already be in the tribulation. Just study the first 4 seals and look around you.

You need to learn HOW to display the quotes of others

.
Comical how i explained what happened and you could not comprehend that I ran out of time.
I am on my phone and it is not friendly to this forums format.
Sometimes it posts multiple posts, or even quotes things out of nowhere. Not that you could understand that , as that anomaly supplies more fake fodder for your personal attacks. ( a plus for you as you just demonstrated).

I don't know why i am telling you anything since you do not comprehend what people say.
But at times i am multitasking as i am self employed. It would be nice if i could go back and fix stuff.
Not that it matters to you.

 

[Absolutely]

The following quote shows as being in a quote of mine, but I agree that the question is garbled and not clear at all, and I highly doubt I would have asked such a confusing question. I don't know who asked it, if anyone did.

"DO YOU SEE A 'FLESH BODY' THAT IS GOING BACK TO DUST IN THE GRAVE SPEAKING AND SEEING AND ALL THE REST?"

Please fix your posting errors.

When on my laptop there never is any.

For now I am stuck with this phone for another year.

It posts massive text that i never entered.
I may have figured out a way to cancel a post though which would solve everything.

 

[Absolutely]

No you didn't. You were spreading a charismatic heresy. Here is it again, Acts 8:18-20.

"And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! "

Keep barking like a dog and shouting to the top of your lungs with your heresy, you ain't gonna change what the Scripture says.

RECKLESSLY TWISTING GODS WORD HUH?
PLUS Vicious personal attacks.
REPORTED!
YOU CUSSED AT AT ME MORE THAN ONCE AND THEY GAVE YOU A PASS.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

RECKLESSLY TWISTING GODS WORD HUH?
PLUS Vicious personal attacks.
REPORTED!
YOU CUSSED AT AT ME MORE THAN ONCE AND THEY GAVE YOU A PASS.

Lol, triggered?

 

[Absolutely]

Forget about the confusing term "laying of hand". You do know that this term could also mean violent assault or sexual assault, right? As in "punching" or "groping"?

Wow
What a stretch to pervert what the Holy Spirit said.
You are so far out in left field i feel sorry for you.

 

[Absolutely]

Lol, triggered?

Actually i am willing to close my account.
You offend me sir.
Not that you care.
I do not know how you could offend me more than mischaracterizing me so cruelly.

You are one mean heartless individual.
Very nasty. A poor example of the Kings people.

 

[Absolutely]

This place will be properly taken over by baptists and postribbers.

You get what you need.

No pushback.

Sad.
Sad that people are bullied by viscous heretics and cussed out with no sanctions.

There is getting to be a sad pattern here in this forum

 

[Rhomphaeam]

No you didn't. You were spreading a charismatic heresy. Here is it again, Acts 8:18-20.

"And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! "

Keep barking like a dog and shouting to the top of your lungs with your heresy, you ain't gonna change what the Scripture says.

Can I ask you how Acts 8:18-20 equates to a charismatic heresy - as you say @Absolutely is "barking like a dog and shouting to the top of [his] lungs?

I would also encourage you to respond in a meaningful way. So that would have to be by explaining how the ambition of Simon the Sorcerer to purchase the apostolic authority he witnessed in Peter equates to anything that @Absolutely said.

 

[Angela53510]

- First thing first, this might be a shocker even a heresy to a lot of y'all folks here, but these 144,000 are the TRUE Bride of Christ, the saints of all saints, not the "Universal Church throughout all ages" as most Christians believe. They'll be SEALED with the Seal of God on their forehead - during the Great Tribulation at Seal 6, not before or after.

- The good news is, "Universal Church" is not out of the picture. Right after the announcement of the 144,000 John saw a "Great Multitude" of all tribes, tongues and nations in Rev. 7:9. That's us. We're the wedding guests from the byways and highways, the ten virgins, the three servants and the laborers in the vineyard. In Zechariah 8:23 it says, "This is what the Lord Almighty says: “In those days ten people from all languages and nations will take firm hold of one Jew by the hem of his robe and say, ‘Let us go with you, because we have heard that God is with you!" Whereas 144,000 is a definitive number, that "ten" is a figurative one for the innumerable Great Multitude. Ten is the lowest legitimate number of righteous men in Abraham's negotiation with God for some mercy on Sodom.

- 12,000 from each tribe of the 144,000 is NOT pointing to just literal, ethnic Jews. By the Bible's own historic record, the definition of Jew is a citizen of the southern kingdom of Judah, which was consisted of the Tribes of Judah and Benjamin plus a few Levites. That's just two tribes, not 12. And since 70AD, they were dispersed into all nations on earth, and Judaism became a religion that went far beyond pedigree, anybody of any ancestry converted into Judaism is considered a Jew. Former first daughter Ivanka and her children are considered Jews through her marriage with Jared. There're also a lot of fake Jews like comrade Bernie Sanders from the synagogue of Satan whom Jesus specifically warned about, they claim to be Jews only to play identity politics. Those name tags of the 12 tribes may be indicators of characters based on Jacob’s last words for his sons in Gen. 49, and at least 12,000 men among the 144,000 could be real ethnical Jews with verifiable genetic records, but by no means will all of them be pious Jewish saints as many pastors and theologians assumed.

- So who exactly are they, what do they do and why are they singled out? The answer is back in the Torah. Those 144,000 as a whole are the Levites of God's people. Not just the 12,000 Levites, but all 144,000. Levi was the tribe of Moses and Aaron, they were separated from the rest of the camp of Israel, set apart to do a holy work for the Lord in the tabernacle. Each of the other eleven tribes received a piece of land as their territory, but not Levi, for God was their portion. Levites were scattered in all those territories as priests. That's the antetype of the 144,000.

- In the last days, these 144,000 will rise up and proclaim the kingdom of God, and all the rest of the church will heed their call and follow their lead, including many who have "fallen away" in 2 Thess. 2:3. They as the first fruit will be presented before God. Interestingly, John heard about them in Seal 6, but he didn't see them, until later in chapter 14:

Revelation 14:1-5 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Zion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no deceit: for they are without fault before the throne of God'

By then they're not in earthly Jerusalem, but HEAVENLY Jerusalem. And here're some other key verses about them:

Hebrews 12:22-24 ...'But ye are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels. To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant.'

Zephaniah 3:13 ...'The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.' -

Notice they have two critical qualifications: They were virgin not defiled by women; In their mouth was found no deceit. To understand this, you must purge the social stigma wrapped around the words "virgin" and "deceit" from your mind and cling to their biblical definitions, because both are spiritual conditions. "Women" are not literal women, but false religions, those are the offsprings of Babylon the Great Harlot; "Deceit" is not any kind of lies, not even gaslighting from the fake news, but false doctrines from any demonic sources like Jesuit. In the midst of all rising false prophets, when the entire world is deceived and worshiping the Beast, they’re the ones who’ll hold and preach the truth!

- And last, don’t expect them to rise among the pastors, rabbis, experts or any celebrities. When that day comes, they’ll be like Peter denying the Lord three times with no remorse. God will pour out His Spirit on a bunch of nobodies out of nowhere to accomplish His holy purpose. Those who are exalted will be humbled, those who are humbled will be exalted. The first will be last, and the last will be first.

I'll just say your treating a book of apocalyptic literature (except the first 3 chapters) literally is shocking. This book was a VISION God gave to John. It is not an historical narrative, like Genesis- 2 Kings. It is not truly a book of prophecy, although it does contain prophecy! It was never meant to be taken literally, because that is not the genre.

People who maintain "God says it, I believe it!" Do not understand Bible interpretation or hermeneutics. You don't pull an isolated sentence out of apocalyptic literature, and hold to a literal interpretation. All attempts to do this just create chaos.

Here's a good comment I found on Revelation, which sums up the book well!

"The Apocalypse affirms God's sovereignty and the ultimate fulfilment of God's purpose. In this way, it offers strong support to individuals in maintaining their faith."
http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0259-94222019000400074

Look at the central theme of the book. Stop trying to teach that "this word means this, and that word means that!!" Its just idle speculation. God will reveal what it means in his own time. Plus, read Revelation in Greek. John wrote in simple Greek. It's easy to read!! He wrote to the churches in Asia, to their time, place, persecution and faith. He was not writing to obsessed people in the 21st century.

I think it will be amazing how many people will be ashamed when Christ actually returns, for the mess they made interpreting Revelation so badly!