Starting a family

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R

Runningman

Banned
#1
Mar 4, 2020
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#1
I plan on getting married in the not too distant future and then starting a family, God willing.

My girlfriend is a new Christian and asked me to post a question here to see what the answers are.

I showed her a passage from Ephesians 5 about husbands and wives submitting to each other. I considered posting this on the Bible Discussion Forum, but the intent of this thread is more for advice.

I should preface this question with saying that she disagrees that husband and wife should submit to each other completely, but there are specific points she way be willing to submit to.

So if there is anyone, whether you be unmarried, married, or divorced and have perspective with specific examples of how spouses should submit to each other then I request your advice.

My question:
What does it mean to submit to each other, what are some invalid requirements for spouses to submit to, and how does this effect freedom and privacy?

I also might add that she is not American, but is Vietnamese. If you happen to be Vietnamese, or are in a relationship with someone from Vietnam, and understand the chasm of cultural differences that may effect this question, then please feel free to advise.

Thanks so much. God bless.
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#2
Jan 15, 2011
6,064
3,413
113
#2
I hate to tell you, there is nothing in Ephesians 5 (in context) that talks about husbands and wives submitting to each other.

Ephesians 5:22-24 clearly states that wives are to submit to their husbands as the Church submits to Christ.

Ephesians 5:21 "submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." is clearly in the context of Christian living in the Church (vs 1-21)

and then there is clearly a shift in topic in verse 22 life in marriage.

If both verse 21 and 22 were addressing the same subject (they don't), then they clearly would be contradicting each other.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#3
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#3
Oncefallen said:
I hate to tell you, there is nothing in Ephesians 5 (in context) that talks about husbands and wives submitting to each other.

Ephesians 5:22-24 clearly states that wives are to submit to their husbands as the Church submits to Christ.

Ephesians 5:21 "submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ." is clearly in the context of Christian living in the Church (vs 1-21)

and then there is clearly a shift in topic in verse 22 life in marriage.

If both verse 21 and 22 were addressing the same subject (they don't), then they clearly would be contradicting each other.
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It’s okay, that’s the perfect response. So there’s nothing about husband and wives submitting to each other. I didn’t even consider that possibility. I guess I’ll tell her she’s free to do anything and doesn’t owe me any deference just because we’ll be married, but as Christians we submit to each other in regards to Christian living. Thanks!
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#4
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#4
Okay let me ask a different question then. What changes when a couple becomes married? Do we treat each other any differently than before?
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#5
Jan 15, 2011
6,064
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#5
Runningman said:
It’s okay, that’s the perfect response. So there’s nothing about husband and wives submitting to each other. I didn’t even consider that possibility. I guess I’ll tell her she’s free to do anything and doesn’t owe me any deference. Thanks!
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In order for you to have come to that conclusion you would have to ignore half of what I typed.

I said Ephesians 5 does not state that husbands and wives are to submit to each other

I also said that Ephesians 5 instructs wives to submit to their husbands (just not the other way around)
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#6
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#6
Oncefallen said:
In order for you to have come to that conclusion you would have to ignore half of what I typed.

I said Ephesians 5 does not state that husbands and wives are to submit to each other

I also said that Ephesians 5 instructs wives to submit to their husbands (just not the other way around)
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Ah yes. I understand now. Thank you.
 
Oncefallen

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
#7
Jan 15, 2011
6,064
3,413
113
#7
Runningman said:
Ah yes. I understand now. Thank you.
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Of course (IMO) the instruction to husbands in Ephesians 5 is by far more difficult.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#8
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#8
Oncefallen said:
Of course (IMO) the instruction to husbands in Ephesians 5 is by far more difficult.

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,
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It sounds like Eph. 5:25 is talking about sacrificing life for a wife, figuratively and literally. IMO, that may include doing whatever is necessary to provide for my family and even literally dying if necessary. I can handle that.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#10
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#10
Magenta said:
Congratulations!

I wonder why. What does she think this entails?
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Thank you!

She recently went on vacation with her friends and I tried to require her to set aside time for me each day and she did that, but later admitted it annoyed her and kinda ruined her vacation. She wants to be free to do whatever she wants, have complete privacy, and not check in with me. I agree but I don’t want to accept secrets. That means it isn’t possible for her to reconcile complete privacy with my requirement for accountability.

My intentions are good because I just want to be a part of her life even if she is on vacation without me. I value her time with me and see her as a higher priority than other people and I got upset when I saw that sentiment wasn’t being reciprocated to me.

Her perspective seems to be she can have a separate life without me. I don’t like that. I like obsessive and clingy.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#11
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
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#11
Runningman said:
She recently went on vacation with her friends and I tried to require her to set aside time for me each day and she did that, but later admitted it annoyed her and kinda ruined her vacation. She wants to be free to do whatever she wants, have complete privacy, and not check in with me. I agree but I don’t want to except secrets.

My intentions are good because I just want to be a part of her life even if she is on vacation without me. I value her time with me and see her as a higher priority than other people and I got upset when I saw that sentiment wasn’t being reciprocated to me.

Her perspective seems to be she can have a separate life without me. I don’t like that. I like obsessive and clingy.
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Maybe she sees that as being too controlling or possessive, and also seems to speak of a lack of trust. It is understandable that she desires time of her own, yet at the same time to say spending time with you while on vacation ruined her holiday? Marriage in the near future may be too hasty. Is she still in Viet Nam? Have you met in person yet?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#12
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#12
Magenta said:
Maybe she sees that as being too controlling or possessive, and also seems to speak of a lack of trust. It is understandable that she desires time of her own, yet at the same time to say spending time with you while on vacation ruined her holiday? Marriage in the near future may be too hasty. Is she still in Viet Nam? Have you met in person yet?
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Yes it’s a long distance relationship and no I have not met her yet. I met her through teaching English to her online and my visa is almost ready for me to go there.

Yes she does say I am too controlling from her perspective, but I don’t think I am. I am just trying to have a relationship with her. I don’t make any unusual requests like she needs to ask me permission to do anything, I just want to be informed. Being informed is perceived as being controlling I guess.

She said that she is a normal Vietnamese woman too. I spoke to her friends as well and they corroborated her story, but then later said I tried to control them too. From my perspective she should want to involve me in all things because I should be a top priority too. Or am I way out of line here?
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#13
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
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#13
Runningman said:
Yes it’s a long distance relationship and no I have not met her yet. I met her through teaching English to her online and my visa is almost ready for me to go there.

Yes she does say I am too controlling from her perspective, but I don’t think I am. I am just trying to have a relationship with her. I don’t make any unusual requests like she needs to ask me permission to do anything, I just want to be informed. Being informed is perceived as being controlling I guess.

She said that she is a normal Vietnamese woman too. I spoke to her friends as well and they corroborated her story, but then later said I tried to control them too. From my perspective she should want to involve me in all things because I should be a top priority too. Or am I way out of line here?
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Way out of line? Not in wanting to spend time with her and desiring her to reciprocate.
Marriage requires huge sacrifices to be made, and a lot of selflessness. If she cannot even
tolerate spending a few minutes a day with you while on holiday, how in the world will she
adjust when you are supposed to be spending the rest of your lives together in real time?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#14
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
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#14
Magenta said:
Way out of line? Not in wanting to spend time with her and desiring her to reciprocate.
Marriage requires huge sacrifices to be made, and a lot of selflessness. If she cannot even
tolerate spending a few minutes a day with you while on holiday, how in the world will she
adjust when you are supposed to be spending the rest of your lives together in real time?
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She hasn’t seen her girlfriends all year and wanted to maximize her time with them. I’m a guy a world away on a video call who was trying to distract her from that. I think she felt pressure from them that she was looking at her phone too much and they complained to her a lot.

I argued that I am a person who deserves the same dignity as if I was there in real time. She agreed with me over her friends, but I wanted more than a few minutes. I wanted a block out of her day and I think I pushed too hard making demands for her attention.

When she isn’t busy or sleeping she gives me a lot of her time happily and freely. At one point we were averaging over 100 hours a week on video calls. Now the circumstances are a bit different due to cellular data problems.

I honestly think a lot of this is just long distance relationship (LDR) problems that will be resolved once I am there.

So what I see is that she wants to have a separate life and that I shouldn’t pry too much. I completely disagree with that. I want to know literally everything about her, just being informed is enough. I don’t require her to ask permission. That’s mainly why I want to know about what should change in our marriage or if we’ll have a lot of friction over this even in real time.
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#15
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
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#15
Runningman said:
So what I see is that she wants to have a separate life and that I shouldn’t pry too much. I completely disagree with that. I want to know literally everything about her, just being informed is enough. I don’t require her to ask permission. That’s mainly why I want to know about what should change in our marriage or if we’ll have a lot of friction over this even in real time.
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Ask yourself, Is what you see actually only what you fear?
The condition perpetuated in the garden is still prevalent. Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. It's believed that a faithful husband is a rare acquisition. I am speaking in the sense of the trusting one rather than the trustworthy one (although that may be only a reflection of their on trustworthiness, idk, there's always seems to be a 'justification,'' though not always just cause, for doing this or that, isn't there?).
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#16
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
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#16
U risk harming the relationship in fear that she will harm the relationship. Each one is to take responsibility for their own part in the relationship. Letting your imagination run away while trying to keep her in reigns will only show her you think nothing more of her than a wild philly.
 
L

Live4Him2

Guest
#17
#17
Runningman said:
I plan on getting married in the not too distant future and then starting a family, God willing.

My girlfriend is a new Christian and asked me to post a question here to see what the answers are.

I showed her a passage from Ephesians 5 about husbands and wives submitting to each other. I considered posting this on the Bible Discussion Forum, but the intent of this thread is more for advice.

I should preface this question with saying that she disagrees that husband and wife should submit to each other completely, but there are specific points she way be willing to submit to.

So if there is anyone, whether you be unmarried, married, or divorced and have perspective with specific examples of how spouses should submit to each other then I request your advice.

My question:
What does it mean to submit to each other, what are some invalid requirements for spouses to submit to, and how does this effect freedom and privacy?

I also might add that she is not American, but is Vietnamese. If you happen to be Vietnamese, or are in a relationship with someone from Vietnam, and understand the chasm of cultural differences that may effect this question, then please feel free to advise.

Thanks so much. God bless.
Click to expand...
Hi, Runningman.

I wrote a rather long discourse on marriage my first time through here under my original username of "Live4Him".

In it, I pretty thoroughly covered the whole submission thing, and not just in relation to a wife submitting to her husband, but also in relation to Christ submitting to God the Father, and the husband submitting himself unto Christ.

If you're interested in reading it (I had to break it down into three consecutive posts because of its length), then you can find it here.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/should-women-teach-should-you.198735/#post-4547539

I think that you'll find it rather informative if you do choose to read it.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#18
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#18
Mem said:
Ask yourself, Is what you see actually only what you fear?
The condition perpetuated in the garden is still prevalent. Your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you. It's believed that a faithful husband is a rare acquisition. I am speaking in the sense of the trusting one rather than the trustworthy one (although that may be only a reflection of their on trustworthiness, idk, there's always seems to be a 'justification,'' though not always just cause, for doing this or that, isn't there?).
Click to expand...
There’s definitely trust. There must be in all relationships, how much more trust does a ldr require? I don’t think there’s a problem in the trust department or I wouldn’t be at the stage of marriage.

Really what I want is for her to agree that I deserve a higher priority place in her life regardless of circumstances. I think that’s an entirely reasonable and even flattering requirement. I don’t believe in lukewarm love. When I am in I am totally in.
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#19
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#19
Live4Him2 said:
Hi, Runningman.

I wrote a rather long discourse on marriage my first time through here under my original username of "Live4Him".

In it, I pretty thoroughly covered the whole submission thing, and not just in relation to a wife submitting to her husband, but also in relation to Christ submitting to God the Father, and the husband submitting himself unto Christ.

If you're interested in reading it (I had to break it down into three consecutive posts because of its length), then you can find it here.

https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/should-women-teach-should-you.198735/#post-4547539

I think that you'll find it rather informative if you do choose to read it.
Click to expand...
Thanks I’ll check it out bro. I look forward to reading through it.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#20
Jul 3, 2015
60,133
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#20
Runningman said:
I don’t believe in lukewarm love. When I am in I am totally in.
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If one is not all in, it is not love :)

And you know? It really reminds me of how God promises to reveal Himself to
those who seek him with their whole heart. Because love requires nothing less.
 
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